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Author Topic: Another collision  (Read 7191 times)

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BazaJT

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Another collision
« on: 21 August 2017, 18:49:44 »

I see yet another American warship[a sister ship to the one not long ago in collision with a freighter/tanker]has collided with yet another freighter/tanker,near Singapore with a consequent loss of more American sailors lives.Can these Americans not drive boats?
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #1 on: 21 August 2017, 19:26:48 »

They cannot drive ANYTHING, and don't know what side of the road to drive on anyway.
Give them a plane and they kill our boys, regularly.
Frightening, isn't it, that such inept people have such power?  >:( :(

Ron.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #2 on: 21 August 2017, 20:33:48 »

Last time a theory proferred was practising tight manouevres around merchant ships. The captain was relieved of his command. I dare say this one will too.  I think they were just napping.. not good.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #3 on: 21 August 2017, 20:56:35 »

I wonder if the spoiled brat from NK hacked their navigation systems?

To crash once is poor seamanship. To crash twice identically within three months points to fundamental issues somewhere... Sleeping or the 'other left' are the most likely culprits, closely followed by failing to keep a watch. Understandable if it were a speed boat off Crete, but absolutely no excuse on one of the best equipped, most manoeuvrable things afloat...
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #4 on: 21 August 2017, 21:00:17 »

Last time a theory proferred was practising tight manouevres around merchant ships. The captain was relieved of his command. I dare say this one will too.  I think they were just napping.. not good.

As I have stated in the thread about the last US Navy ship accident, executing tight passages around slower, but much bigger vessels, takes a hell of a lot of practice, skill, and plain superior seamanship by the commander.  All too many have come unstuck by pure misjudgement and a poor level of command. This seems to be yet another case of that.
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Varche

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #5 on: 21 August 2017, 21:36:16 »

Fourth US navy incident this year.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #6 on: 21 August 2017, 23:28:15 »

Forgot to add, the yanks launched their first autonomous warship last year. Sooner they are all like that the less lives they will lose in these accidents.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #7 on: 21 August 2017, 23:38:33 »

I think the RN have had a few incidents in recent years.  There was a destroyer or Frigate that hit a rock off of Sydney and didn't one of the new Astute class subs get stuck on a sandbar in the Clyde recently?  :-\
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #8 on: 22 August 2017, 06:12:48 »

I think the RN have had a few incidents in recent years.  There was a destroyer or Frigate that hit a rock off of Sydney and didn't one of the new Astute class subs get stuck on a sandbar in the Clyde recently?  :-\
The rock was, er, unfortunate, and sand bars move ;)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2017, 07:38:44 »

I think the RN have had a few incidents in recent years.  There was a destroyer or Frigate that hit a rock off of Sydney and didn't one of the new Astute class subs get stuck on a sandbar in the Clyde recently?  :-\
The rock was, er, unfortunate, and sand bars move ;)

I doubt that would have been an acceptable excuse in Drake or Nelsons day, let alone in the 21st century with all the technology at their disposal.  ::)
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2017, 08:15:59 »

The control systems on ships have to be independent and not connected to anything which could be hacked (e.g. isolated islands), there are also manual direct connect override joysticks....just in case! (Class rules)

It will be 'human error'

But to go playing dodgems around the waters off Singapore, where there are usually 200 plus ships anchored and the another large quantity actually moving.....its a fools game!
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #11 on: 22 August 2017, 09:37:51 »

They cannot drive ANYTHING, and don't know what side of the road to drive on anyway.
Give them a plane and they kill our boys, regularly.
Frightening, isn't it, that such inept people have such power?  >:( :(

Ron.

Glad to see your big fat paintbrush is out again.
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #12 on: 22 August 2017, 10:02:54 »

The control systems on ships have to be independent and not connected to anything which could be hacked (e.g. isolated islands),

No (military) GPS auto-pilot, then?
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #13 on: 22 August 2017, 10:03:48 »

Glad to see your big fat paintbrush is out again.

C'mon Matt, you know not one American could drive around the outskirts of Milton Keynes as fast as TB in his Silver Bullet... ;)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #14 on: 22 August 2017, 10:40:01 »

The control systems on ships have to be independent and not connected to anything which could be hacked (e.g. isolated islands),

No (military) GPS auto-pilot, then?

The auto pilot systems have to be standalone with only hardwired connections to the VMS/DP, even then they are very basic and rarely used unless transiting over open water. Some DP setups have basic integrated auto pilot but again, isolated from any external systems.

Any DP setup will use multiple inputs for position references (GPS is not considered reliable enough) with different setups used for different scenarios.

But there is no great level of integration where a radar setup would detect a potential collision and cause the system to respond, that's down to the operator
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #15 on: 22 August 2017, 10:55:54 »

Glad to see your big fat paintbrush is out again.

C'mon Matt, you know not one American could drive around the outskirts of Milton Keynes as fast as TB in his Silver Bullet... ;)

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Nothing is faster than my colleague in his Porker 911 around those roundabouts, except maybe the Tesla S the other fella here has (in ludicrous mode of course)
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tunnie

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #16 on: 22 August 2017, 12:24:00 »

Glad to see your big fat paintbrush is out again.

C'mon Matt, you know not one American could drive around the outskirts of Milton Keynes as fast as TB in his Silver Bullet... ;)

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Nothing is faster than my colleague in his Porker 911 around those roundabouts, except maybe the Tesla S the other fella here has (in ludicrous mode of course)

Don't be silly now, we all know that a 15 year old Vauxhall barge is far quicker than even a brand new Porker Turbo.  ;D
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #17 on: 22 August 2017, 12:27:43 »

The control systems on ships have to be independent and not connected to anything which could be hacked (e.g. isolated islands),

No (military) GPS auto-pilot, then?

The auto pilot systems have to be standalone with only hardwired connections to the VMS/DP, even then they are very basic and rarely used unless transiting over open water. Some DP setups have basic integrated auto pilot but again, isolated from any external systems.

Any DP setup will use multiple inputs for position references (GPS is not considered reliable enough) with different setups used for different scenarios.

But there is no great level of integration where a radar setup would detect a potential collision and cause the system to respond, that's down to the operator

Interesting to know - thanks :y I asked a leading question, really, because I assumed (and you know what assumptions make?) ships would just use some kind of GPS self guidance.. and we all know GPS can be "hacked" (even military systems, given enough work on the part of a nation state, while civilian is trivial).

But apparently it's a case of PEBKAC  ;D

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #18 on: 22 August 2017, 12:34:31 »

I think the RN have had a few incidents in recent years.  There was a destroyer or Frigate that hit a rock off of Sydney and didn't one of the new Astute class subs get stuck on a sandbar in the Clyde recently?  :-\

There was the grounding of HMS Astute in 2010:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11605365

 ;)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #19 on: 22 August 2017, 12:41:44 »

The control systems on ships have to be independent and not connected to anything which could be hacked (e.g. isolated islands), there are also manual direct connect override joysticks....just in case! (Class rules)

It will be 'human error'

But to go playing dodgems around the waters off Singapore, where there are usually 200 plus ships anchored and the another large quantity actually moving.....its a fools game!

But I have mentioned before, that is what an operational destroyer's crew have to train for.  The art of crossing the main ships of the fleet from port to starboard, or just manourvering at high speed to keep submarines and air attack at bay is highly skilled seamanship that must be practiced continually. That will involving using innocent merchant ships in their dummy runs. ;)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #20 on: 22 August 2017, 12:57:09 »

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)

You needn't worry, I dont know where you live ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #21 on: 22 August 2017, 13:26:06 »

The control systems on ships have to be independent and not connected to anything which could be hacked (e.g. isolated islands), there are also manual direct connect override joysticks....just in case! (Class rules)

It will be 'human error'

But to go playing dodgems around the waters off Singapore, where there are usually 200 plus ships anchored and the another large quantity actually moving.....its a fools game!

But I have mentioned before, that is what an operational destroyer's crew have to train for.  The art of crossing the main ships of the fleet from port to starboard, or just manourvering at high speed to keep submarines and air attack at bay is highly skilled seamanship that must be practiced continually. That will involving using innocent merchant ships in their dummy runs. ;)

Yep, so human error but, as said, carrying out such manoeuvres where they did given the congestion is an idiots game! (Something the US seem very good at creating and then placing in a position of command at times)  :y
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #22 on: 22 August 2017, 13:33:20 »

Just to add, a quick look on our in house vessel tracker shows Singapore as currently having 640 vessels in port and 1080 arrivals in the next 7 days as pretty much every vessel traveling east/west passes here (for obvious reasons!) and many stop.

A free viewer is here:

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:104.0/centery:1.2/zoom:10

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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #23 on: 22 August 2017, 15:13:45 »

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)

You needn't worry, I dont know where you live ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's not even like I'd hear the milk float coming..
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #24 on: 22 August 2017, 16:16:17 »

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)

You needn't worry, I dont know where you live ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's not even like I'd hear the milk float coming..

The milk float is gone and my scoobie is dead so if you see a dark blue s-type with a personalised plate, give me a wave :D
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BazaJT

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #25 on: 22 August 2017, 19:05:46 »

They have found the bodies of at least some of the missing crew members[no numbers were specified]still aboard the ship having been trapped in sealed watertight compartments.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #26 on: 23 August 2017, 00:31:06 »

One ex-USN crew comment suggests there are significant crewing and training issues which are known about and they now might have to confront and sort them. :-[
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #27 on: 23 August 2017, 10:19:05 »

I was reading about this last night, but in light of my earlier comments about GPS hacking etc:

"Adm. John Richardson
2 clarify Re: possibility of cyber intrusion or sabotage, no indications right now...but review will consider all possibilities"

(Source: https://twitter.com/CNORichardson)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #28 on: 23 August 2017, 11:59:59 »

Possibility of hacking GPS?

I have a box on my desk at work that can be programmed to generate a GPS signal telling the receiving station anything you want. Can't believe I'm the only one. ::)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #29 on: 23 August 2017, 12:17:18 »

Possibility of hacking GPS?

I have a box on my desk at work that can be programmed to generate a GPS signal telling the receiving station anything you want. Can't believe I'm the only one. ::)

So it's you that's directing all these poor Eastern European lorry drivers down country lanes with their artics!  :o  ::)  ;D

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #30 on: 23 August 2017, 12:30:53 »

Possibility of hacking GPS?

I have a box on my desk at work that can be programmed to generate a GPS signal telling the receiving station anything you want. Can't believe I'm the only one. ::)

As I understand it the GPS satellites emit a very low power (I have heard it's the equivalent power of a 40w bulb but not sure) so jamming or freaking the signal would not require much hardware.  The tricky bit would be calculating the necessary offset in order to have the effect you require on the target receiving the signal.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #31 on: 23 August 2017, 13:08:58 »

Possibility of hacking GPS?

I have a box on my desk at work that can be programmed to generate a GPS signal telling the receiving station anything you want. Can't believe I'm the only one. ::)

As I understand it the GPS satellites emit a very low power (I have heard it's the equivalent power of a 40w bulb but not sure) so jamming or freaking the signal would not require much hardware.  The tricky bit would be calculating the necessary offset in order to have the effect you require on the target receiving the signal.

Yep, the satellites transmit an early form of CDMA, all on top of each other on the same frequency,and signal levels at the receiver are very low indeed, so it's quite easy to swamp the lot. There are military extensions which are possibly less susceptible, of course - if they're using them. ::)
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #32 on: 23 August 2017, 13:10:32 »

Possibility of hacking GPS?

I have a box on my desk at work that can be programmed to generate a GPS signal telling the receiving station anything you want. Can't believe I'm the only one. ::)

As I understand it the GPS satellites emit a very low power (I have heard it's the equivalent power of a 40w bulb but not sure) so jamming or freaking the signal would not require much hardware.  The tricky bit would be calculating the necessary offset in order to have the effect you require on the target receiving the signal.

It's been done before - I actually did research on this just a couple of weeks ago as part of my day job:

Quote from: aaronjb
GPS Spoofing has been back in the news again this week[6] - actually if I'm honest, this week is the first time I've seen much about it but if you dig just a little you find practical reports of GPS Spoofing exploitation back to 2011 (when a US drone was allegedly captured by Iran[7]) and academic papers stretching all the way back to 2001[8] (shortly after Selective Availability was discontinued) that discuss the same topic. It seems clear everyone agrees this has the potential to be a major problem, especially for non-military uses of GPS (which turns out to be far more than just navigation as GPS is, at it's core, simply a highly accurate time-source[9]). Military GPS is, you see, somewhat protected from spoofing by encryption with keys held in each receiver, while civilian GPS uses unencrypted signals and, generally speaking, has no protection against the external injection of a false signal.

In fact, it turns out that not only have we seen academic papers going back to ~2001, we've also seen practical demonstrations performed[10] with the approval of the relevant authorities. And now, it seems, we may have had our first large scale demonstration taken without the approval of the relevant authorties, when some 20 ships were lured off course.

It looks like we might need to start taking this threat seriously and at least ensuring civilian mass-transit and -transport systems use anti-spoofing technology atop their GPS navigation systems - it's not so bad if Waze thinks I'm a few miles off course, but if that supertanker thinks it's a few miles off course and cruises straight into the nearest shore?

[6] Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon - https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/
[7] US spy drone hijacked with GPS spoof hack, report says - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/15/us_spy_drone_gps_spoofing/
[8] Vulnerability Assessment of the Transportation Infrastructure Relying on the Global Positioning System - https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/vulnerability_assess_2001.pdf
[9] On the Requirements for Successful GPS Spoofing Attacks - https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/files/6489/gps.pdf
[10] Protecting GPS From Spoofers Is Critical to the Future of Navigation - http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/protecting-gps-from-spoofers-is-critical-to-the-future-of-navigation

So yes, Kevin is definitely not the only one ;) also some light reading in there if you want more details (especially the IEEE article and the Oxford University published paper)

[edit] Reading it back a week later makes it apparent that I really need to work on my writing style! :-[
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STEMO

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #33 on: 23 August 2017, 13:15:39 »

Apparently, ships computers are not that well protected, not civilian ones anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40685821
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #34 on: 23 August 2017, 13:21:51 »

Apparently, ships computers are not that well protected, not civilian ones anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40685821

It's not just ships.  Lots of industrial machines are wide open and susceptible to very simple attacks.  Not helped by the fact that a lot of them run plants which run 24/7 and require several days to shutdown and install patches.  This results in machines for some very expensive plant machinery running on XP and in some cases barebone (ie no service pack)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #35 on: 23 August 2017, 13:38:46 »

The military GPS bands are generally for weapon functions only, the VMS/DP uses DGPS systems (at least two receivers for anything of importance) which will pickup the GPS and/or GLONAS satellite signals.

Now any DP setup of worth, is constantly looking for small errors when it compares wind direction, wind speed, vessel movement (vertical, yaw etc.) compass indication and other information sources and will raise an alarm if the indicated position has typically more than a 0.5% error of the calculated (the DP software has models for the vessel so it can calculate wind direction effects and even current influences).

But a fundamental is that in congested waters or areas of hazard, DP for movement or auto pilot should not be used.....its the officer of the watch who is in charge and should be in control.


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Re: Another collision
« Reply #36 on: 23 August 2017, 13:41:35 »

Apparently, ships computers are not that well protected, not civilian ones anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40685821

The control networks cannot be connected to the internet, they are class rules.

We have dual redundant networks (A and B) with all controllers (distributed around the vessel) and HMI stations on these networks, to connect to the internet would need human intervention......which then breaks class rules and approvals and probably voids the insurance
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #37 on: 23 August 2017, 14:12:54 »

You don't need an Internet connection to get infected, though - just ask the Iranian nuclear workers.. ;)

(Of course that assumes these control systems have a USB port just begging for someone to put a "found" memory stick into, and that the sensible thing hasn't been done by epoxying the ports up)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #38 on: 23 August 2017, 14:19:44 »

You don't need an Internet connection to get infected, though - just ask the Iranian nuclear workers.. ;)

(Of course that assumes these control systems have a USB port just begging for someone to put a "found" memory stick into, and that the sensible thing hasn't been done by epoxying the ports up)

If they've got any epoxy left after doing the side of the ship, you mean? ::)
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aaronjb

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #39 on: 23 August 2017, 14:26:55 »

If they've got any epoxy left after doing the side of the ship, you mean? ::)

 ;D In this case, indeed!
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #40 on: 23 August 2017, 14:32:40 »

You don't need an Internet connection to get infected, though - just ask the Iranian nuclear workers.. ;)

(Of course that assumes these control systems have a USB port just begging for someone to put a "found" memory stick into, and that the sensible thing hasn't been done by epoxying the ports up)

Which would be human intervention  :y

The response was in reply to the ability to control the vessel remotely.   :y
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #41 on: 23 August 2017, 15:06:25 »

So much easier when young Lord Opti was amassing his fortune. The midshipman would hollow from the crows nest, Treasure Ahoy, he would run up the Jolly Rodger, raid, board and capture the Spanish galleon, so they be adding more gold doubloons to M'luds growing fortune. ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #42 on: 23 August 2017, 16:57:04 »

One of the first checks to make on an air-gapped system; plug in a USB wifi card (alba preferably) and setup your mobile as a wifi hotspot.  You would be suprised how many fail (ie how many will connect to the wifi)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #43 on: 23 August 2017, 19:12:02 »

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)

You needn't worry, I dont know where you live ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's not even like I'd hear the milk float coming..

The milk float is gone and my scoobie is dead so if you see a dark blue s-type with a personalised plate, give me a wave :D
I shall keep an eye out, and give you a special one fingered wave :D

If you see a black XJ, do likewise :y
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #44 on: 23 August 2017, 21:23:35 »

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)

You needn't worry, I dont know where you live ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's not even like I'd hear the milk float coming..

The milk float is gone and my scoobie is dead so if you see a dark blue s-type with a personalised plate, give me a wave :D
I shall keep an eye out, and give you a special one fingered wave :D

If you see a black XJ, do likewise :y

Welcome to JOF, folks. The Jaguar Owners Forum  ;D
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #45 on: 23 August 2017, 23:03:45 »

Apparently, ships computers are not that well protected, not civilian ones anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40685821

The control networks cannot be connected to the internet, they are class rules.

We have dual redundant networks (A and B) with all controllers (distributed around the vessel) and HMI stations on these networks, to connect to the internet would need human intervention......which then breaks class rules and approvals and probably voids the insurance

There was an interesting item on the vulnerability to and fraud etc of ships. One i liked was a small programme applied by USB stick which after refuelling the Email with cost had the pay to bank account changed by the virus. Cost them a lot of money. Might still be on Bbc .co.uk

How does the US autonomous navy vessel work that was launched last year if not by the Internet? Even if not the Internet presmably it is hackable?
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #46 on: 24 August 2017, 16:56:02 »

Been working in MK for the last 6 months and likely to continue for the next year or so.

Crap, I'm going to have to moderate my piss-taking if you're that close to me! ;)

You needn't worry, I dont know where you live ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's not even like I'd hear the milk float coming..

The milk float is gone and my scoobie is dead so if you see a dark blue s-type with a personalised plate, give me a wave :D
I shall keep an eye out, and give you a special one fingered wave :D

If you see a black XJ, do likewise :y

Problem is that there are many of them around here, but I shall keep the eyes peeled mofo ;D
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #47 on: 25 August 2017, 00:19:35 »

One of the first checks to make on an air-gapped system; plug in a USB wifi card (alba preferably) and setup your mobile as a wifi hotspot.  You would be suprised how many fail (ie how many will connect to the wifi)

Makes you wonder how many bored Jack Tars (or merchant seamen), stuck on a ship in port, finds a local wifi connection to share across the ship's network with his buddies. They home in on some great adult entertainment web sites complete with security services malware extras? :o :o :o
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #48 on: 25 August 2017, 10:43:51 »

One of the first checks to make on an air-gapped system; plug in a USB wifi card (alba preferably) and setup your mobile as a wifi hotspot.  You would be suprised how many fail (ie how many will connect to the wifi)

Makes you wonder how many bored Jack Tars (or merchant seamen), stuck on a ship in port, finds a local wifi connection to share across the ship's network with his buddies. They home in on some great adult entertainment web sites complete with security services malware extras? :o :o :o

Ships have multiple networks and that includes a 'general' one for the likes of media and general computing, this will have a satellite based broadband connection (not overly quick, FB500 or better), servers etc

The vessel I am working on at the moment has a full media pack (in addition to the on-board gym, virtual swimming pool, cinema etc.) which includes the ability to stream films to a local PC/tablet, view live sport etc. but, this network is totally separate to the vessel control networks, the safety networks, drilling networks, crane networks etc.  :y
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #49 on: 25 August 2017, 11:31:50 »

Bit like how the CAN networks on cars controlling the engine ECU, ABS system and so on are completely separate to the entertainment system, sat nav, telematics box with internet connectivity, etc.. 

Oh, Hang on! ::)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #50 on: 25 August 2017, 12:01:49 »

The vessel I am working on at the moment has a full media pack (in addition to the on-board gym, virtual swimming pool, cinema etc.) which includes the ability to stream films to a local PC/tablet, view live sport etc. but, this network is totally separate to the vessel control networks, the safety networks, drilling networks, crane networks etc.  :y

Virtual swimming pool.....  I have an image of someone sat in the bath with a big pair of goggles!  :)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #51 on: 25 August 2017, 12:20:14 »

The vessel I am working on at the moment has a full media pack (in addition to the on-board gym, virtual swimming pool, cinema etc.) which includes the ability to stream films to a local PC/tablet, view live sport etc. but, this network is totally separate to the vessel control networks, the safety networks, drilling networks, crane networks etc.  :y

Virtual swimming pool.....  I have an image of someone sat in the bath with a big pair of goggles!  :)

 With a cup of tea and a laptop   ;D
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #52 on: 25 August 2017, 13:09:39 »

Bit like how the CAN networks on cars controlling the engine ECU, ABS system and so on are completely separate to the entertainment system, sat nav, telematics box with internet connectivity, etc.. 

Oh, Hang on! ::)

Except they are physically not connected at all, the CAN networks are supposed to be connected and hence have a bridge device in them  :y
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #53 on: 25 August 2017, 13:10:34 »

The vessel I am working on at the moment has a full media pack (in addition to the on-board gym, virtual swimming pool, cinema etc.) which includes the ability to stream films to a local PC/tablet, view live sport etc. but, this network is totally separate to the vessel control networks, the safety networks, drilling networks, crane networks etc.  :y

Virtual swimming pool.....  I have an image of someone sat in the bath with a big pair of goggles!  :)

Its one of these (three in fact) big bath tubs with a bloody great pump which creates 'flow'
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #54 on: 25 August 2017, 13:28:34 »

The vessel I am working on at the moment has a full media pack (in addition to the on-board gym, virtual swimming pool, cinema etc.) which includes the ability to stream films to a local PC/tablet, view live sport etc. but, this network is totally separate to the vessel control networks, the safety networks, drilling networks, crane networks etc.  :y

Virtual swimming pool.....  I have an image of someone sat in the bath with a big pair of goggles!  :)

I have an image of someone lying face down on a table, wearing a big pair of goggles, kicking their legs & arms in a circular motion.  ;D
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #55 on: 25 August 2017, 13:47:11 »

Bit like how the CAN networks on cars controlling the engine ECU, ABS system and so on are completely separate to the entertainment system, sat nav, telematics box with internet connectivity, etc.. 

Oh, Hang on! ::)

Except they are physically not connected at all, the CAN networks are supposed to be connected and hence have a bridge device in them  :y

Exactly my point.. Hack the bridge device and...
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #56 on: 25 August 2017, 19:13:25 »

Thoughts seem to be coming down more and more where reductions mean the Pacific fleet is overstretched and under trained.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/24/navy-hits-dangerous-shoals-editorials-debates/596823001/

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Re: Another collision
« Reply #57 on: 26 August 2017, 09:52:09 »

Bit like how the CAN networks on cars controlling the engine ECU, ABS system and so on are completely separate to the entertainment system, sat nav, telematics box with internet connectivity, etc.. 

Oh, Hang on! ::)

Except they are physically not connected at all, the CAN networks are supposed to be connected and hence have a bridge device in them  :y

Exactly my point.. Hack the bridge device and...

There is no bridge, physically isolated and separate. The only connection between any do the systems is via relay io
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #58 on: 27 August 2017, 10:51:51 »

Thoughts seem to be coming down more and more where reductions mean the Pacific fleet is overstretched and under trained.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/24/navy-hits-dangerous-shoals-editorials-debates/596823001/

The sad reality is that American power is declining with her financial fortunes, just as it did with the British Empire and all "empires" in the past, and to come.  They all collapse as the costs of keeping those entities running quickly exceeds the empires income.

No longer can the USA commit to unlimited military expenditure. It can no longer maintain strong presence around the whole Globe.  70 years ago the British had to rapidly give up on India as the cost to a bankrupt nation after WW2 of keeping an even small military presence there was just too great. The Americans, who owe trillions of dollars, are starting to go down that road, with already a vast reduction in their naval ability to police the high risk areas of the world and so protect their political and financial interests.

They are now fully on the road to decline, no matter what Trump may promise. The latest series of naval accidents are simply a small reflection of what is happening in the bigger picture.  I find this very sad and alarming, although as an historian it is not in the least unexpected. :(
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #59 on: 27 August 2017, 11:23:32 »

I wouldn't write the U.S. off so quickly. They are the words greatest capitalists, its what their nation was built on, and if they can rid themselves of the lefty liberal nonsense which has infested, and is slowly but surely destroying the western world, theres no reason why they cant rise again and show the Chinese how real global capitalist power is done.
Its a big ask, but if the will is there, its doable.
The U.S. has never been an empire btw. It has been a(sometimes dominant) global power, but thats not the same thing. This may be why it has outlasted the USSR and will outlast the EU, as they were / are Empires.
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #60 on: 27 August 2017, 11:57:44 »

I wouldn't write the U.S. off so quickly. They are the words greatest capitalists, its what their nation was built on, and if they can rid themselves of the lefty liberal nonsense which has infested, and is slowly but surely destroying the western world, theres no reason why they cant rise again and show the Chinese how real global capitalist power is done.
Its a big ask, but if the will is there, its doable.
The U.S. has never been an empire btw. It has been a(sometimes dominant) global power, but thats not the same thing. This may be why it has outlasted the USSR and will outlast the EU, as they were / are Empires.

I didn't call it that directly, as you are right in one way; it has not been an empire in the sense you mean, with land acquisition and colonisation, but it is a type of empire of a financial nature, hence my use of the "empire", with its corporate trading tentacles all over the globe. It also does have "territories" beyond its mainland, for a mainly Strategic purpose, just as in the case of the British Empire.

It is also declining, as empires do, due to internal forces, with the customary "implosion" already happening. The divisions within America are so great that it will tear the nation apart. I predicted in the 1970s this would happen with the CCCP, and it did due to the populous being fed up with a system that was not socially working for them. Britain's empire fell apart due to political and social unrest, due to it not being able to split the Government's expenditure between military and social needs in the early 20th century, and finally the overwhelming debt caused by "winning" the Second World War. This, combined with the demand of the populous for a better, socially aware, democracy caused the British "implosion". The USA is going the same way, but without the major world war effect.  Indeed, that last war created the American "empire", but those advantages are now being ground down by the Chinese effect. ;)
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #61 on: 27 August 2017, 12:13:30 »

Corporate America is not a country either. The two should neither be confused nor described as empires... Apostrophes or not...
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Re: Another collision
« Reply #62 on: 27 August 2017, 12:31:25 »

Corporate America is not a country either. The two should neither be confused nor described as empires... Apostrophes or not...

At university in international political terms we used the corporate "empire" as a correct definition of the status of the USA with their interests, as I stated before, spread across the globe. This is a correct label for that entity. ;)
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