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[Sir Tigger KC]

John McDonnell the Shadow Chancellor, yesterday promised to eliminate the deficit and bring down the national debt in his speech at the Labour Party's conference in Brighton. 

He then went on to promise that a Labour government would nationalise the railways, Royal Mail, utilities, and bring John Major's PFI's 'in house'. "We're bringing them back!" he said 

No mention of how a Labour government would fund all this and nor did he acknowledge that it was the last Labour government that burdened the NHS in particular with the worst of these PFI contracts.  Nevertheless, the poor suckers in Brighton lapped it up! 

Senior Labour figures looked very irritated at journalists having the temerity to question how they could achieve and fund this, although John McDonnell's deputy (forget his name) did admit that they would increase borrowing and that they are comfortable with that!    So much for reducing the national debt! 

John McDonnell sends a shiver down my spine every time I see him on TV and I can tell you it's not with excitement!    I think I'd rather have dinner with Vlad The Impaler, although they do look similar?  Maybe they're related!   

Tom Watson's up today to get the Labour faithfuls creaming their knickers and to give the Magic Money Tree another shake!   

It would be funny if it wasn't so likely that they might sucker in enough people to get into Downing Street! 

[Rods2]

In 2022 if it looks like they might get in that would be a good time to profit take on your property portfolio and offshore the money, so they can't get hold of it.

I personally think if they get in they will create a one-party Marxist state (a purge of moderate MP's leading up to 2022 will be an important part of this) and will then nationalize all businesses and property, with nominal compensation, for starters.

There have been and still are parties that have used democracy to get into power and then pulled up the dictatorial drawbridge. Recently this has included Russia with Venezuela, Turkey and India where it is ongoing.

All you need to change the UK political rules is 326 like-minded MP's, where unlike many countries where a 2/3 majprity is required to change constitutional matters in the UK it is a straight majority.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

John Mc. is right about PFI, a crude capitalist cure all so beloved by the Tories and 'Tory Blair'

A ridiculous and expensive way to spend taxpayer money.

[STEMO]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

[Kevin Wood]

John Mc. is right about PFI, a crude capitalist cure all so beloved by the Tories and 'Tory Blair'

A ridiculous and expensive way to spend taxpayer money.

Agreed, but you might argue the same applies to the prospect of buying yourself out of the agreements on principle. I can't imagine the penalty clauses are more attractive than just letting them run but I might be wrong....

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

John Mc. is right about PFI, a crude capitalist cure all so beloved by the Tories and 'Tory Blair'

A ridiculous and expensive way to spend taxpayer money.

It was Gordon McRuin who did all the damage with PFI,s. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

I sincerely hope your right. New old Labour is scary and sinister to me. I can understand young people who have been educated in left wing Universities, cant remember Britain in the 70,s, Militant tendency in the 80,s or anything about the IRA, being taken in by them
I cannot fathom the stupidity of people of my generation buying into it though.
It has become so toxic and threatening, that Laura Keunssberg (hardly a right wing journalist) has been provided with a bodyguard at the conference, due to threats of rape and death against her, by the preachers of "a kinder more tolerant type of politics".
Speakers at fringe meetings last night were apparently actually discussing if Labour should  question if the holocaust actually happened. 

[Rods2]

John Mc. is right about PFI, a crude capitalist cure all so beloved by the Tories and 'Tory Blair'

A ridiculous and expensive way to spend taxpayer money.

No sane business person would have negotiated such stupid PFI deals as Gordon "buy high sell low to make a profit" McRuin did, but when you are spending other people's money you don't care. Likewise, all the vast public spending rises Liebour made were on the basis if you spray enough sh*t at the wall some will stick.

Public finances are still struggling to recover from this, 7 years since they were in power.

As an aside, a recently published ONS report shows average hourly pay rates for the public sector are £13.75 compared to £10 in the wealth-creating part. So the next time the well-off bleeding hearts complain about a 1% pay rise I will be quoting this.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

John Mc. is right about PFI, a crude capitalist cure all so beloved by the Tories and 'Tory Blair'

A ridiculous and expensive way to spend taxpayer money.

Agreed, but you might argue the same applies to the prospect of buying yourself out of the agreements on principle. I can't imagine the penalty clauses are more attractive than just letting them run but I might be wrong....

Yep....no further PFI deals would be the way to go. As you rightly say trying to 'buy back' existing PFI would not be cost effective. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I suspect it will be between Boris and David Davis.I don't car as long as Corbyn doesn't get to number 10.
If he does, it might be time for the generals to step in.

[Rods2]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

The Tory leader pool is very shallow and very limited in talent in every way.

[STEMO]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

It’s 2017...why are we worried about what may happen in 2022? Any party can promise the earth in opposition, and they frequently do, but I think the political landscape will be far away from where it is now by the time of the next election. Hopefully, Corbyn and McDonnell will be dead.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

It’s 2017...why are we worried about what may happen in 2022? Any party can promise the earth in opposition, and they frequently do, but I think the political landscape will be far away from where it is now by the time of the next election. Hopefully, Corbyn and McDonnell will be dead.

That's not very charitable.....

[Sir Tigger KC]

If the Tories can limp on to 2022 then I expect Corban and Mcdonnell will be in their dotardage by then anyway. They're well on their way! 

[STEMO]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

It’s 2017...why are we worried about what may happen in 2022? Any party can promise the earth in opposition, and they frequently do, but I think the political landscape will be far away from where it is now by the time of the next election. Hopefully, Corbyn and McDonnell will be dead.

That's not very charitable.....

Hmmmmm......ok..
I wish them a speedy and painless death. Better?

[Lincs Robert]

Back in the late 90's many large uk companies who did govt business were actively encouraged to setup PFI units - with a view to being poised to get into these opportunities early on so that the govt could reap early "benefits" from them.

I worked with the BT pfi unit for a while, and although there was a sort of logic of BT supporting the comms/IT aspects of some deals - things ran away with the fairies a bit when people started bringing BT pfi "opportunities" to fund schools & the like. Luckily not many of these ideas crept through - although I seem to recall BT taking a stake in the GCHQ doughnut building which was a new/shiny thing in the offing at the time.

As you can imagine, there was an awful lot of dangle berries talked at some of the meetings - & to make matters worse the consultants, on both sides, who were hell-bent on extending any/all timeframes so that they continue getting their fees ..... 

I was well out of that one I can tell you, mind you, I did have an Omega Elite as a company car, so can't complain too much I suppose 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

It’s 2017...why are we worried about what may happen in 2022? Any party can promise the earth in opposition, and they frequently do, but I think the political landscape will be far away from where it is now by the time of the next election. Hopefully, Corbyn and McDonnell will be dead.

That's not very charitable.....

Hmmmmm......ok..
I wish them a speedy and painless death. Better?

Your whippet would be devastated by the loss of political talent and loss to society in general.

[Rods2]

I have no worries over the insane ramblings of this bunch of twonks. The Labour Party can shift as far to the left as it likes, the electorate will never vote them in. Take no notice of the showing they made in the last election. Lessons have been learned by the tories and, I think, we will see a much more coherent strategy from them next time. The scare that they got is probably one of the best things that could have happened, they will never be as complacent again. Also, Tory voters won’t sit on their arses thinking it’s a done deal next time.

It's an opportunity for Corbyn and Labour because we can only guess who the next Tory leader (and PM?) will be.

Boris for PM anyone?

It’s 2017...why are we worried about what may happen in 2022? Any party can promise the earth in opposition, and they frequently do, but I think the political landscape will be far away from where it is now by the time of the next election. Hopefully, Corbyn and McDonnell will be dead.

That's not very charitable.....

Hmmmmm......ok..
I wish them a speedy and painless death. Better?

Your whippet would be devastated by the loss of political talent and loss to society in general. or not!

Fixed!

[Viral_Jim]

No sane business person would have negotiated such stupid PFI deals as Gordon "buy high sell low to make a profit" McRuin did, but when you are spending other people's money you don't care. Likewise, all the vast public spending rises Liebour made were on the basis if you spray enough sh*t at the wall some will stick.

While the One-Eyed Scottish Idiot certainly had his hands in the PFI debacle, the real issue was the level to which decision making was devolved. Such that you could have (for example) the CEOs of NHS trusts signing multi million pound contracts that they had neither read, fully understood nor taken the appropriate level of advice on.

PFI deals can have real benefits for the borrower, but not in the way the vast majority of them were structured.

In terms of "buying them out", there would have been no need to call on the magic money tree, had we compelled the banks to sell them as part of the bailouts they received. Another opportunity missed 

[Varche]

Couldn't Labour use the Conservative money tree? You know the one that came up with 1billion out of thin air for the DUP or the one that came up with more money for the Public Sector or indeed for the 100 billion to leave the EU we never will leave. 

[2boxerdogs]

Every morning I hear how these "clever politicians" are going to make everything marvelous , do you know I don't believe a single one of them. Too far down the road to ever recover now.

[Varche]

Every morning I hear how these "clever politicians" are going to make everything marvelous , do you know I don't believe a single one of them. Too far down the road to ever recover now.

I am glad you said that. As an expat I am sort of in a limbo land when it comes to voting until I have been away from the UK for 15 years. I can and do vote in local Spanish and MEP elections. However when it comes to the Uk for the first time in my life, I wouldn't know who to vote for. They are all pretty dire so I don't use my postal vote for elections now.
 

[Doctor Gollum]

Every morning I hear how these "clever politicians" are going to make everything marvelous , do you know I don't believe a single one of them. Too far down the road to ever recover now.

I am glad you said that. As an expat I am sort of in a limbo land when it comes to voting until I have been away from the UK for 15 years. I can and do vote in local Spanish and MEP elections. However when it comes to the Uk for the first time in my life, I wouldn't know who to vote for. They are all pretty dire so I don't use my postal vote for elections now.

Then you cannot grumble whichever way the wind blows

[Shackeng]

The problem is that the majority of politicians are second rate. The brightest people would not wish to be a member of that sleazy club. The current route is PPE, researcher, lose a seat, and having served your time, drop into a winnable seat. Then up the greasy pole keeping your head down and your hand in our pockets. How many of the current crop have actually led productive lives in another sphere before becoming an MP? Not a lot I would think. What really clever people would want to be in parliament? My daughter, who I (obviously ) consider fairly bright, who qualified second on her course at bar school, and is now a Company Secretary and Legal Director of a major City firm, did consider standing as an MP a few years ago after being seconded from her firm to Parliament to advise the Pensions Minister as a legal advisor. She decided she could not stand the pettiness of the place, and could not choose any of the parties that she would be proud to represent. I suspect many of our brightest youngsters find themselves in a similar frame of mind.

[2boxerdogs]

The problem is that the majority of politicians are second rate. The brightest people would not wish to be a member of that sleazy club. The current route is PPE, researcher, lose a seat, and having served your time, drop into a winnable seat. Then up the greasy pole keeping your head down and your hand in our pockets. How many of the current crop have actually led productive lives in another sphere before becoming an MP? Not a lot I would think. What really clever people would want to be in parliament? My daughter, who I (obviously ) consider fairly bright, who qualified second on her course at bar school, and is now a Company Secretary and Legal Director of a major City firm, did consider standing as an MP a few years ago after being seconded from her firm to Parliament to advise the Pensions Minister as a legal advisor. She decided she could not stand the pettiness of the place, and could not choose any of the parties that she would be proud to represent. I suspect many of our brightest youngsters find themselves in a similar frame of mind.

Very sensible, my own personal opinion is that a very high majority of MPs are totally corrupt  they look down on the honest working men/ women  as idiots, but I believe most people realise this now & refuse to be taken in by the mindless drivel they spout & expect us to believe.

[Mister Rog]

I'm not a huge fan of Theresa May, but even less of a fan of Corbyn. If there was a general election tomorrow I'd vote Tory, not out of support, but only to deprive Corbyn of my vote. The current Labour party terrifies me.

I just listened to Corbyn being interviewed by the BBC on Radio 4. he was asked outright about funding his latest spending ideas. Not even a hint of a sensible answer, just waffle about communities and understanding the people etc. He doesn't even give us a nice big juicy lie to consider. I'm getting cross . . . . is it gone 6pm yet ? Can I have a glass of wine ?

[Sir Tigger KC]

It's emerged today that John McDonnell is actively working on plans to deal with an expected run on sterling and capital flight should they get in. 

I wonder what those plans are?  Capital and currency controls?  Bring the Bank of England back under the direct control of the Treasury, so McDonnell can jack up interest rates? Go and have a cup of tea with Len McCluskey and plot the glorious revolution? 

[Lizzie Zoom]

It's emerged today that John McDonnell is actively working on plans to deal with an expected run on sterling and capital flight should they get in. 

I wonder what those plans are?  Capital and currency controls?  Bring the Bank of England back under the direct control of the Treasury, so McDonnell can jack up interest rates? Go and have a cup of tea with Len McCluskey and plot the glorious revolution? 

Back to the 1970's!

Beer and sandwiches comrade?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

That's exactly what it is. They have reproduced the blueprint from the 70,s which Labour and the unions used to almost completely destroy the country.
Young, gullible, badly* educated people are falling for it in their millions.
The thing is, surely Corbyn and crew know what the result of these policies was in the 70,s so why do they want to use them again rather than try and learn something from the failure ?
Can they really be that dim ?
Maybe they think that when they ruin the country this time around, it will spark a full blown revolution, which will bring about their Marxist Utopia.If they really believe that crap in the 21st century, there surely must be a case for having them sectioned under the mental health act. 

* Educated / brainwashed to a certain mindset, with independence of thought strongly discouraged, presumably.

[ronnyd]

Wasn,t there a story in,t papers today that a Tory MP was griping about not being able to claim for poppy wreaths on expenses. What a shower of shite they are.

[Mister Rog]

Wasn,t there a story in,t papers today that a Tory MP was griping about not being able to claim for poppy wreaths on expenses. What a shower of shite they are.

Agreed

 . . . . . . but I also do not accept everything in the papers at face value

[Bigron]

Wasn,t there a story in,t papers today that a Tory MP was griping about not being able to claim for poppy wreaths on expenses. What a shower of shite they are.

At least it wasn't a duck house!

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

That's exactly what it is. They have reproduced the blueprint from the 70,s which Labour and the unions used to almost completely destroy the country.
Young, gullible, badly* educated people are falling for it in their millions.
The thing is, surely Corbyn and crew know what the result of these policies was in the 70,s so why do they want to use them again rather than try and learn something from the failure ?
Can they really be that dim ?
Maybe they think that when they ruin the country this time around, it will spark a full blown revolution, which will bring about their Marxist Utopia.If they really believe that crap in the 21st century, there surely must be a case for having them taken out and shot for treason

* Educated / brainwashed to a certain mindset, with independence of thought strongly discouraged, presumably.

Fixed.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Thankyou.I was a bit tired and couldn't come up with the correct form of words. 

[Rods2]

Interesting article on Corbyn's Sovietization of the Labour party which undermines Parliamentary Democracy and Liebour MPs, so they have no say on the leader or on any policy matters. This will ensure the continued grip on the party by the Marxist hard-left. Will it lead to the forming of a new more moderate left-wing party?

https://www.conservativehome.com/lefidiotch/2017/09/corbyn-is-mounting-a-coup-detat-against-parliamentary-democracy.html

[Doctor Gollum]

SDP anyone

[Varche]

Vince Cable for PM

Left enough?

[Doctor Gollum]

Nigel Farrage for PM.

Ballsy enough?

Fixed

[Varche]

Who he?   

[TheBoy]

I think we have to accept we're screwed either way. The EU thing is going to kick us in the balls, when we're already down, for the next 15-20yrs (and anyone who thinks we are even remotely more than an insignificant island is deluded), which will come on to lower wages, higher taxes, and higher borrowing, with those leaning pulling all the strings and owning everything. Until nobody will lend us any more.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Ah yes we can always rely on TB for a upbeat slant on things! 

[TheBoy]

Ah yes we can always rely on TB for a upbeat slant on things! 

We all know we are not going to reach a sensible deal with the EU, so we'll pay £100m for a hard brexit. Europe has no need to make any deals with us.

The yanks won't do a deal, because they rightly put themselves first.

We're mongrels if we think we are in any way significant to the EU or US.  Maybe we can deal with Vlad, and become part of the motherland.  TBH, that's now looking more and more likely.


And Corbyn stands a reasonable chance of getting in, as the british public is both incredibly stupid and short memory.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

We shall see. 

[Rods2]

Insignificant - 4th biggest economy in the world.
Military - After US as a superpower we are second as the world's only global power.
Exports - 10th biggest nation with 2.7% of global trade.
Imports - 5th biggest nation with 3.6% of global trade.

If the EU commission foolishly want a trade war both sides will be losers and I personally think the EU Commission does not want to do a deal on any terms to punish us. This means there is only one smart move and that is to go to the rest of the world on an import substitution mission with regular updates of what is cheaper from whom from March 2019. Member Governments will then be forced to act to protect their market share, GDP growth and employment rates. Member Governments regularly face the ballot box over their policies, the EU commission dictatorship never has and never will and are a law until themselves.

In the short term from March 2019 until 2021 we will have a short sharp recession while we sort out rest of world free trade deals and focus on import substitution for food (primarily hits France and Spain) but our food will become 20-40% cheaper and manufactured goods, especially cars (will hit Germany hardest) and we get a  much stronger economy where we reduce or eliminate our balance of payments deficit where we have been screwed over by the EEC / EU from day 1 on this to give us a big deficit with the rest of the EU, compared with currently having a positive trade balance with the rest of the world. Where the EU due to their protectionist trade policies (driven by the French) and anti-business, green tree-hugger socialism and expensive, rare energy policies that make their long-term bleak outlook even worse, where they are losing global market share at twice the rate of the US and they will lose much of their current UK market.

PS: Don't mention the war, half-currency unsolvable, long-term nonviable Euro and Greek, Italian, Spanish, French and German banks, where several of the small ones have been quietly bailed out in 2017. The supernova when it fails is Deutsche Bank, €2tn+ labilities just in the derivatives market and much more in other areas.

The only thing I can find that is more negative than TB, where I've really searched, is minus infinity and then only just.

[Shackeng]

The truth about the EU position reveals itself today. Until/unless the UK agrees to its share to underwrite the Eurocrats pensions forever, no further items will be considered.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Good. Now we can just walk away, like we should have done over a year ago. 

[Rods2]

The truth about the EU position reveals itself today. Until/unless the UK agrees to its share to underwrite the Eurocrats pensions forever, no further items will be considered.

If they haven't funded a final salary scheme then IMO that is their stupidity & problem. Personally, I won't be losing 1 seconds sleep if they refuse to pay Clegg, the Kinocks and their ilk after we leave.

[Varche]

Are there any children invlved in this divorce? No didn't think so, should be a clean break. Just leaving in time if you read Macrons wish list of EU and Eurozone reforms. Funny how they can find money for a Euro defence force now they feel they can't rely on Britain yet they mostly couldnt or wouldnt meet their NATO obligations. Be interesting to see how they fare when Russia annexes its Baltic states  back while Trump is busy elsewhere annihilating North Korea


What about the uks share of  EU assets to counter these costs?  I cannot believe that question has not been asked. I keep saying it but countries can be made to sell their infrastructure paid for with EU money. The same way the Eurogroup made Greece selll its family silver.

[Kevin Wood]

Are there any children invlved in this divorce? No didn't think so...

I assume you're excluding the ones trying to negotiate it?

[Entwood]

I'm getting more and more confused by the so called "English Language" ..

My understanding of "negotiation" is somewhat akin to the opening line of an online definition ..ie "Negotiation is a dialogue between two or more people or parties intended to reach a beneficial outcome over one or more issues where a conflict exists with respect to these issues.  yet all I hear is "Uk should do this" ; "UK haven't done this"; "we require this from the UK" ....

This sounds like "negotiation by the TUC" which always was "do as we say" .....

Perhaps if the EU actually spelt out THEIR positions AS WELL things could progress in a sensible manner ??

[Bigron]

Amen to that, Nige! 

Ron.

[Rods2]

I personally think that the EU Commission has no intention of negotiating anything beyond EU citizens rights in the UK, which is largely done and are trying to set up the UK for the blame for the failure of not being able to reach an agreement.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I personally think that the EU Commission has no intention of negotiating anything beyond EU citizens rights in the UK, which is largely done and are trying to set up the UK for the blame for the failure of not being able to reach an agreement.

Agreed.  Despite May guaranteeing continued UK funding of the current EU budget, they are trying to secure UK funds beyond 2020.  While I think this is logical for specific things like Europol, I suspect they are gunning for money to be paid into the general pot long term!   

Hopefully DD and TM will absolutely rule this out, but I'm not so sure..... 

[TheBoy]

Despite May guaranteeing continued UK funding of the current EU budget, they are trying to secure UK funds beyond 2020.  While I think this is logical for specific things like Europol, I suspect they are gunning for money to be paid into the general pot long term!   

You seem genuinely surprised? Surely you could see that. We need Europe a whole heap more than they need our insignificant little rock

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Us and the Germans are the only ones who actually put money into the project. German taxpayers are already squealing about how much they have to contribute. Once we stop contributing, and german carmakers potentially have tarrifs on their UK sales - their biggest market, Frau Merkel could easily see her house of cards falling down around her ears.
We have a large trade deficit in our favour, and we are 5th or 6th largest economy in the world.
This insignificant little rock, isn't actually that insignificant. 

[TheBoy]

We have a large trade deficit in our favour, and we are 5th or 6th largest economy in the world.
This insignificant little rock, isn't actually that insignificant. 

Currently. But when we lose our biggest trading partner

[Shackeng]

I think one of the most interesting things about all the shenanigans that have gone on so far, is that there was clearly no intention of any of the 'founding fathers' of the EU that anyone should be able to leave, as they clearly did not build such a proviso into their 'rules'. Welcome to Hotel California.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Despite May guaranteeing continued UK funding of the current EU budget, they are trying to secure UK funds beyond 2020.  While I think this is logical for specific things like Europol, I suspect they are gunning for money to be paid into the general pot long term!   

You seem genuinely surprised? Surely you could see that. We need Europe a whole heap more than they need our insignificant little rock

Nope not surprised, just disgusted at the thought that TM and DD might go along with it.   

I don't share your pessimistic antipathy towards this country, and if our politicians show a bit of backbone and resist the pressure from the Establishment and corporate vested interests we could have a great future. 

After all the last 40 years in which we have ceded control of all sorts of things to the Common Market/EEC/EC/EU have hardly been glorious! 

[Rods2]

Despite May guaranteeing continued UK funding of the current EU budget, they are trying to secure UK funds beyond 2020.  While I think this is logical for specific things like Europol, I suspect they are gunning for money to be paid into the general pot long term!   

You seem genuinely surprised? Surely you could see that. We need Europe a whole heap more than they need our insignificant little rock

You mean like what happened to Ukraine where Russia effectively banned Ukrainian goods where Russia was its biggest trading partner, invaded so they have lost 8% of their territory and started a war for good measure. It caused a sharp recession with about 16% GDP loss in Ukraine which took about 2 years to stabilize and start growing from so they are now doing very well. If you lose a major market you get on your bike and find other countries in which to sell your goods. Out of 7.5bn people on this planet, the EU without us is about 400m people with one of the most moribund economic areas in the world with virtually no economic growth. EU Commission is only interested in building the EUSSR and economic growth doesn't even make the top 100 of their priorities.

Fortunately, many of us aren't so negative as TB and rather than slitting our wrists will rise to the challenge.