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[Lizzie Zoom]

freight[/highlight], why are we putting up with our roads being clogged by long distance lorries?  The loads being carried by them should be moved to the railways.  It makes perfect sense, but of course there is a anti-railways lobby that is getting in the way

.

Written by someone who has no idea about road haulage and freight,
How do you get the freight to and from the railhead, how do you get the goods to the customers,how do you get 20,000 boxes of a product to a rdc.

And this has not been written by someone who has properly read my post #15  when I particularly specified:
"Currently, 44 tonne lorries drive up and down our motorways to distribution centres where they are unloaded.  The goods head out again on local delivery lorries to the customer.  Instead the initial 44 tonne lorry haul should be phased out, with rail delivered long distance freight instead, then onto the local delivery fleet.  That alone would rid the M20, M25, M4, M1, M5, M6, etc, etc, of lines of 56 mph lorries clogging the system.  Pollution would be dramatically cut , and costs reduced, and with Continental Channel traffic reduced, the chance for illegal immigrants boarding lorries would also be cut."

 

.

I stand by my comments,

The size of the areas needed to accept, the freight in every city would be huge,  or let's try this your average 24hr, 364 day a year rdc has about 500 trucks, per day delivering stock in, it has 150 own trucks delivering 24/7 to store.

Putting trucks on trains works in Europe, because the bridges are higher, to take standard 4.0m high outfits, you can drive on a train in northern Germany and drive off in Italy.
British rolling stock is to narrow, Stobart and Tesco's tried failed. Containers by rail does work, the reason not widely used, is strikes, and capacity, o and speed.

You can quote from google, or any other reference book, but in the real world it doesn't work.If it did we would be using it.

No. You still do not understand what I am saying. Putting trucks on rail is only good for short distances, like going through the Chunnel.  I am talking about containers being loaded at factories that are producing the goods, then they travel to the central distribution centres of the retailers or suppliers.  Then they go from them on lorry to the goods point of sale.  There is no complication with the more generous rail gauge in Europe, as the current standard containers will be used.

This was done once, with most factories having rail links.  Some still have, like Ford who's container trains I have see going through Ashford from Europe to Ford's plants in the UK.  It cannot be done overnight, but more factories / distribution centres must have a rail link.

With vision it can be done to produce a better world for us all on many levels.

[TheBoy]

I really do sympathize with you TB.  I often had all that discomfort in the past.  But, the country IS going through a huge new investment in the railways, with new track, stations and longer trains, which means it will get much better.

This is post the £250m rail improvements spent by Network Rail just on the Chiltern section.  Which was money pissed up the wall as I've noticed precisely zero difference. The service is still crap and expensive.

[Varche]

freight[/highlight], why are we putting up with our roads being clogged by long distance lorries?  The loads being carried by them should be moved to the railways.  It makes perfect sense, but of course there is a anti-railways lobby that is getting in the way

.

Written by someone who has no idea about road haulage and freight,
How do you get the freight to and from the railhead, how do you get the goods to the customers,how do you get 20,000 boxes of a product to a rdc.

And this has not been written by someone who has properly read my post #15  when I particularly specified:
"Currently, 44 tonne lorries drive up and down our motorways to distribution centres where they are unloaded.  The goods head out again on local delivery lorries to the customer.  Instead the initial 44 tonne lorry haul should be phased out, with rail delivered long distance freight instead, then onto the local delivery fleet.  That alone would rid the M20, M25, M4, M1, M5, M6, etc, etc, of lines of 56 mph lorries clogging the system.  Pollution would be dramatically cut , and costs reduced, and with Continental Channel traffic reduced, the chance for illegal immigrants boarding lorries would also be cut."

 

.

I stand by my comments,

The size of the areas needed to accept, the freight in every city would be huge,  or let's try this your average 24hr, 364 day a year rdc has about 500 trucks, per day delivering stock in, it has 150 own trucks delivering 24/7 to store.

Putting trucks on trains works in Europe, because the bridges are higher, to take standard 4.0m high outfits, you can drive on a train in northern Germany and drive off in Italy.
British rolling stock is to narrow, Stobart and Tesco's tried failed. Containers by rail does work, the reason not widely used, is strikes, and capacity, o and speed.

You can quote from google, or any other reference book, but in the real world it doesn't work.If it did we would be using it.

No. You still do not understand what I am saying. Putting trucks on rail is only good for short distances, like going through the Chunnel.  I am talking about containers being loaded at factories that are producing the goods, then they travel to the central distribution centres of the retailers or suppliers.  Then they go from them on lorry to the goods point of sale.  There is no complication with the more generous rail gauge in Europe, as the current standard containers will be used.

This was done once, with most factories having rail links.  Some still have, like Ford who's container trains I have see going through Ashford from Europe to Ford's plants in the UK.  It cannot be done overnight, but more factories / distribution centres must have a rail link.

With vision it can be done to produce a better world for us all on many levels.

not to mention a truly staggering amount of money. Where is that going to come from apart from the taxpayer( e.g. motorist) or the customer in the form of higher prices for goods?

[Doctor Gollum]

Lizzie, you can but dream

The scenario you present is unworkable in the unlimited space of North America. Once from factory to central hubthe goods still need distributing to the RDCs and onto stores. One train might manage the first leg. But the rest is by truck.

Trains simply don't work unless you're moving a whole train from A to B... ie Solihull to Southampton 

[Lizzie Zoom]

freight[/highlight], why are we putting up with our roads being clogged by long distance lorries?  The loads being carried by them should be moved to the railways.  It makes perfect sense, but of course there is a anti-railways lobby that is getting in the way

.

Written by someone who has no idea about road haulage and freight,
How do you get the freight to and from the railhead, how do you get the goods to the customers,how do you get 20,000 boxes of a product to a rdc.

And this has not been written by someone who has properly read my post #15  when I particularly specified:
"Currently, 44 tonne lorries drive up and down our motorways to distribution centres where they are unloaded.  The goods head out again on local delivery lorries to the customer.  Instead the initial 44 tonne lorry haul should be phased out, with rail delivered long distance freight instead, then onto the local delivery fleet.  That alone would rid the M20, M25, M4, M1, M5, M6, etc, etc, of lines of 56 mph lorries clogging the system.  Pollution would be dramatically cut , and costs reduced, and with Continental Channel traffic reduced, the chance for illegal immigrants boarding lorries would also be cut."

 

.

I stand by my comments,

The size of the areas needed to accept, the freight in every city would be huge,  or let's try this your average 24hr, 364 day a year rdc has about 500 trucks, per day delivering stock in, it has 150 own trucks delivering 24/7 to store.

Putting trucks on trains works in Europe, because the bridges are higher, to take standard 4.0m high outfits, you can drive on a train in northern Germany and drive off in Italy.
British rolling stock is to narrow, Stobart and Tesco's tried failed. Containers by rail does work, the reason not widely used, is strikes, and capacity, o and speed.

You can quote from google, or any other reference book, but in the real world it doesn't work.If it did we would be using it.

No. You still do not understand what I am saying. Putting trucks on rail is only good for short distances, like going through the Chunnel.  I am talking about containers being loaded at factories that are producing the goods, then they travel to the central distribution centres of the retailers or suppliers.  Then they go from them on lorry to the goods point of sale.  There is no complication with the more generous rail gauge in Europe, as the current standard containers will be used.

This was done once, with most factories having rail links.  Some still have, like Ford who's container trains I have see going through Ashford from Europe to Ford's plants in the UK.  It cannot be done overnight, but more factories / distribution centres must have a rail link.

With vision it can be done to produce a better world for us all on many levels.

not to mention a truly staggering amount of money. Where is that going to come from apart from the taxpayer( e.g. motorist) or the customer in the form of higher prices for goods?

I am not going to pretend I have all the answers; that is why we have "experts" and people with real vision, who then kick the politicians into action.

However, I have suggested concrete ways we could go forward from where we are now. I will ask what alternative do we really have? Our roads are packed, and ever increasingly so producing pollution and creating ever increasing costs. Just look at the pot hole situation, and the fact many of our roads are worn out. So do we Tarmac the whole of the U.K., still finding that is never enough?  Do we continue to pour billions into a failing transport system where to move the goods we do we need ever bigger lorries that smash up our roads even more, let alone fill them up?

As I stated before, this is a car forum so the car is #1 to many of us. But how can this continue. Look at the facts today, then think as to what it will be like when our population reaches 70 million.

We need a plan B before 2050.

[Doctor Gollum]

Besides LZ, you don't HAVE to live on the channel freight corridor

[STEMO]

I have a plan to sort out things for me before 2050, as do you Lizzie. We’ll both be dead. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Lizzie, you can but dream

The scenario you present is unworkable in the unlimited space of North America. Once from factory to central hubthe goods still need distributing to the RDCs and onto stores. One train might manage the first leg. But the rest is by truck.

Trains simply don't work unless you're moving a whole train from A to B... ie Solihull to Southampton 

I am not speaking about the USA; I am talking about the UK.  I have also explained twice that the train should be used for the first journey from factory to distribution centre, then lorry to retail outlet/customer (at least until we can deliver light goods by air!), as that is the only option so far.

Nothing I am suggesting is revolutionary.  In the 1950's goods were often taken from factory / or production area by train from their back doors. This method greatly assisted the Industrial Revolution, and served us well until the railway distribution system was cut and the road lobby took over, with little appetite by the governments of the day to give the railways what they desperately required; massive investment.  I am suggesting reversing this and, for the right reasons for the economy, British industry, and our environment, including our mental health (sitting in long queues of traffic does this no good!) bringing the railways to the forefront of both freight and people movement. If we think we can afford the current system, we most certainly can afford to build/rebuild the railways to 21st century standards.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Besides LZ, you don't HAVE to live on the channel freight corridor

Thanks for deciding I do not have to live down here. You obviously know everything about me!!

I actually do HAVE to live down here.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I have a plan to sort out things for me before 2050, as do you Lizzie. We’ll both be dead. 

Yep my funeral plan is in place, so what happens in 2050 will be too late for me as well STEMO.  I just want my grand children to enjoy a better World

[STEMO]

Have a read of this, Lizzie, should keep you quiet for a while. Pay particular attention to the quick response part.

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/full/10.1108/09590551011085975?mobileUi=0&

[Doctor Gollum]

Besides LZ, you don't HAVE to live on the channel freight corridor

Thanks for deciding I do not have to live down here. You obviously know everything about me!!

I actually do HAVE to live down here.

No-one has to live in Ashford...

[Lizzie Zoom]

Have a read of this, Lizzie, should keep you quiet for a while. Pay particular attention to the quick response part.

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/full/10.1108/09590551011085975?mobileUi=0&

Thanks for that STEMO.  That is an excellent report

Much of it was known about when I was last involved in retail distribution.  I remember the days when manufacturers delivered direct to our stores, but then we as retailers re-organised that to them delivering to distribution centres to improve our stock holdings and to better meet customer demands in a fast moving sector of retail.  We retained our direct margins and bonuses, whilst the manufacturers saved on their distribution costs. It was win win all round.

That report does not rule out the initial product distribution from factory to CD centre by train. It does highlight speed, correctly, as being an essential factor in the retail supply chain. With a redirection of investment and redrawing the plans of the logistics world, there is no reason why the railways cannot be used if the new railways are faster than road distribution. I remember Cadburys at their Borneville plant still having a rail link. So this is just one example of how, with a new approach, the raw materials could go into a production plant, with the finished goods going out, all by rail.

Fresh eyes and imagination is all that is required.  The rest I have said already

[Bigron]

Might I refer you back to my proposal as future Minister of Transport, now slightly modified: concreting over the railways and devoting them to lorries would ease a lot of the congestion they create on normal roads.
Incidentally, if they run on ex-railway lines, they can then rightly be called "trucks" - on the road they are LORRIES in this country.

Also of course, our road network could be massively expanded if ALL monies collected in taxation of the motorists were spend on the roads - about ten times what is currently spent!

Ron.

[Viral_Jim]

I am very supportive of the trains, they take people off the roads I want to use. Only on Tuesday a colleague and I had a a "race" to the Grant Thornton offices in London (Zone 1, near Moorgate)for a 0930 meeting. We started at Watford where we were hotelling it due to a meeting on weds.

He took the "fast" train and tube, plus a 5 minute walk either end.  I took the Swede  He arrived about 30seconds before I did, looking like he had taken a shower in someone else's sweat. He paid £23 for a return ticket plus zone 1 tube. My parking was a hefty £24 at an NCP 75yards from the office.

For me, a cost of £1 (plus a few quid in fuel)  and 30 seconds was worth the comfort and relaxation of my own personal space, even had the company not paid my parking.  this experience mirrors what I found when I worked in London for 18months. If you took a bit of care about where you parked and used door to door times rather than TFL fabrications, there was basically nothing in it, either cost or time wise. 

However, I do acknowledge that this would not be the case if everyone thought as I do. These days, if I were in central London I'd buy a motorbike (and learn to ride it).

Where I do think rail has a place is for "inland ports" where you can ship entire trains of containers at once and relieve the choke points around out major freight ports.