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[Doctor Gollum]

Indeed, my house to John O'Groats takes 12hrs25 minutes and costs1 tank of devil juice, say £70.

By train, the same journey takes anything from 16 to 26 hours, involves five or six changes and costs a minimum of £195. I still then have to catch a bus to John O'Groats 

A truck could hypothetically cover the same distance in 23 hours with two one hour breaks and minimum daily rest and no change of driver. Which gives the passenger train a bloody good run for its money

[Varche]

Lizzie, the difference between now and the Victorian era is that trains are one of several means of moving bulky/heavy freight, not just two - the other being canals and rivers.


So we need some joined up thinking to combine ALL methods in an efficient way. Britain is too small for trains to be the answer to general distribution as that's what road freight is best at. Rail is excellent for commuting into and between big cities, but it needs to be subsidised to be affordable which it certainly isn't now. We don't need more roads or tracks, we need to use what we have better.


And even if a motorway has all the lanes full of slow moving traffic it is still working.


I wasn't driving in the seventies, but all of the common trips we used to do are now possible in under a third of the time they used to take. And it's now perfectly possible to have a day trip to the NEC(for example) and still have dinner in my favourite restaurant at home.

Nick. I would be interested in why all of the common trips you used to do are now possible in under a third of the time. Maybe you use a bypass or a new stretch of Motorway.?

I have just finished reading an excellent book on the complete history of Scarborough. My dad rightly moan about the terrible snarl ups the town suffers. Years ago they thought about improving the main roads into the town but never got around to it.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Nick. I would be interested in why all of the common trips you used to do are now possible in under a third of the time. Maybe you use a bypass or a new stretch of Motorway.?

Nick has become a bat and now flies between belfries. 

[Nick W]

Nick. I would be interested in why all of the common trips you used to do are now possible in under a third of the time. Maybe you use a bypass or a new stretch of Motorway.?

Living in Kent the biggest improvement to getting anywhere is the M25. Before that opened, visiting my grandparents in Crawley meant a tedious 2 1/2 hour journey through Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells, East Grinstead etc. Going via Sevenoaks and down was no better. Once it opened, that became a 45minute trip. Plymouth which used to take 13 or 14 hours is easily doable in 4 1/2.


As I've frequently written, if a motorway is full of slow moving traffic, the routes nearby are always much worse. Nobody would drive through a big city(any big city) if there is a ring road.

[biggriffin]

Ms zoom, you have this image, of an England powdered by by steam, and using canals, for transport. In the oldern days, which you seem to think are brilliant, those forms of transport did work, then they realised the road was quicker, and less unionised, goods could be ordered on a Monday, and delivered on Tuesday,  unlike the rails, order Monday might get to the closest station by Friday, if there's no strike.

In Europe, the canals are wider and deeper and can accommodate larger vessels, hence why bulk cargo goes from Holland to Germany via the rhur,  wind turbines destined for England travel on barges from Germany to Goole, were they are transferred to trucks.

Ford Dagenham had a rail head for coal and steel, they stopped using this due to unions and cost.
Jaguar land rover no longer use the rail link at Bromwich..



Why. It's not efficient.

[Bigron]

And Corbyn wants us to return to those halcyon days, when unions f*ucked everything up! 

Ron.

[YZ250]

......
I've often thought that railways would be best concreted over and used as roads - nice and straight, gentle gradients and right into city centres.
.......

Already happened in the town where I live  , except that they turned it in to a dedicated path/cycle route away from the main traffic, complete with stopping points and picnic tables when you need a rest.  Not quite what you had in mind though is it. 
The freight line used to run slap bang in to the centre of the Industrial area from the mainline in Princes Risborough but they concreted/covered the entire length of it ....... all seven miles of it, to make a lovely quiet path/cycle path that they named The Phoenix Trail. 
So, we won't be using trains for freight anytime soon from our industrial area. 

As for needing the loo on a train, as a male you have to match your body movements to the sway of the trains clickety clack over the rails and fire when you are in synch with the trains movements. Sadly, the ten people that used it before you weren't aware of this method and pissed all over the seat and floor.   

[Bigron]

 
That reminded me of a time when I told my oldest and dearest friend a joke. George wasn't very worldly, although very clever, and I said "What do you call a dog with no tongue?"
"What?" said George.
"Smelly boll*cks", I replied.
Silence from George.
Then he went upstairs for a pee, and came down cursing me, because he got the point of the joke whilst p*ssing, and shook with laughter so much that he soaked the bathroom floor!

Ron.

[Nick W]

And Corbyn wants us to return to those halcyon days, when unions f*ucked everything up! 

Ron.

British management and governments were equally culpable.
But the description is accurate.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Ms zoom, you have this image, of an England powdered by by steam, and using canals, for transport. In the oldern days, which you seem to think are brilliant, those forms of transport did work, then they realised the road was quicker, and less unionised, goods could be ordered on a Monday, and delivered on Tuesday,  unlike the rails, order Monday might get to the closest station by Friday, if there's no strike.

In Europe, the canals are wider and deeper and can accommodate larger vessels, hence why bulk cargo goes from Holland to Germany via the rhur,  wind turbines destined for England travel on barges from Germany to Goole, were they are transferred to trucks.

Ford Dagenham had a rail head for coal and steel, they stopped using this due to unions and cost.
Jaguar land rover no longer use the rail link at Bromwich..



Why. It's not efficient.

If you had read my posts fully you would know that is far from the case, and "canels"!! When did I mention them??

I have a vision of freight being distributed via a modern high speed railway system on the revitalised tracks now being laid, along with High Speed routes, to massive central distribution centres that factories and warehousing would be built next to. From there electric trucks, possibly driven by computers would deliver the goods to point of sale, with other means, like the trial drones, being used to an increasing extent.

I envisage a world, well at least the UK, where we have roads free of thousands of heavy lorries and the pollution that comes with them with millions of working hours saved by people being able to travel freely on a joined up transport system.  Key to that is the High Speed Railway system which will be able to equal the speed of going by air and, once more, reduced pollution.  Those that want to still drive, their electric / hydrogen / hybrid cars,  will be able to on clear very fast running motorways, as was envisaged way back when the M1 was opened.

Many are worried about how much land the High Speed links will require, but that is relatively a small price to pay to save millions of acres being concreted over under yet more new motorways / motorway upgrades, lorry parks, new airport runways and facilities smashing over peoples houses.

Now if you think that vision is in anyway close to a "Victorian" view of life then clearly you do not study or read history.

[Nick W]

Nick. I would be interested in why all of the common trips you used to do are now possible in under a third of the time. Maybe you use a bypass or a new stretch of Motorway.?

Nick has become a bat and now flies between belfries. 

Currently flitting between 5 towers in and around Croydon. But by bus not wings

[Lizzie Zoom]

......
I've often thought that railways would be best concreted over and used as roads - nice and straight, gentle gradients and right into city centres.
.......

Already happened in the town where I live  , except that they turned it in to a dedicated path/cycle route away from the main traffic, complete with stopping points and picnic tables when you need a rest.  Not quite what you had in mind though is it. 
The freight line used to run slap bang in to the centre of the Industrial area from the mainline in Princes Risborough but they concreted/covered the entire length of it ....... all seven miles of it, to make a lovely quiet path/cycle path that they named The Phoenix Trail. 
So, we won't be using trains for freight anytime soon from our industrial area. 

As for needing the loo on a train, as a male you have to match your body movements to the sway of the trains clickety clack over the rails and fire when you are in synch with the trains movements. Sadly, the ten people that used it before you weren't aware of this method and pissed all over the seat and floor.   

And that is the nonsense of the past when the political masters of the time (like now so often!) could  see no further than 10 years time.  People with no vision did that and helped create the mess we are now in. It must all be reversed for the latter half of this century.

[Doctor Gollum]

And finally the crux...

In order to progress we must first recede fifty years

Keep taking those halcyon pills, they clearly work a treat

[Lizzie Zoom]

And finally the crux...

In order to progress we must first recede fifty years

Keep taking those halcyon pills, they clearly work a treat

No, perhaps you want to take cyanide pills and just roll over and die, as you might as well with that negative attitude.  If people like you had been the only ones around before the Industrial Revolution then that would not have happened and we would now be a back water island of Europe without any of our modern day luxeries

Listening to your negative approach I look forward to, and thank God for, the new exciting generations. Shame I will not be around long enough to see the new age.

[Doctor Gollum]

Well that's terribly Christian of you... 

With that pious attitude, it's no wonder the world is constantly at war

When it comes to getting shit done to solve problems I am actually much better at it than you might think... Also I am far from negative when it comes to the future...
It's just that you're too blinkered to notice

Besides, you'll be ahead of me in the queue for TBs end game.