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Author Topic: Catalonia  (Read 1981 times)

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Sir Tigger QC

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Catalonia
« on: 28 September 2017, 18:54:51 »

Catalonia in the North East of Spain is due to have a referendum on independence on Sunday.  The Spanish government and Spain's Constitutional Court have declared the vote illegal and seem to be doing their utmost to prevent the referendum from going ahead. Websites have been shut down, computers, leaflets etc have been seized and 4000 police have been drafted in from other parts of Spain to shut down polling centres.

Can you imagine if the UK government had sent 4000 English, Welsh and NIrish police into Scotland to shut down the referendum there?  :o  ::)

The Catalonian government have promised that they will declare independence from Spain within 48 hours if the people vote for independence!  Sound familiar?  ::)

It's an interesting situation with possible dire consquences given the Spanish governments apparent heavy handedness.  :-\  I'm sure that our Spanish Correspondent will provide an insight and correct anything I've got wrong!  :y

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #1 on: 28 September 2017, 19:25:14 »

The one BIG difference is that Scotland obtained permission from Westminster to hold a referendum, obviously Catalonia has not asked central government for it’s blessing.
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Varche

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #2 on: 28 September 2017, 19:29:39 »

He is taking his/her time in getting to the keyboard!
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #3 on: 28 September 2017, 19:37:51 »

The one BIG difference is that Scotland obtained permission from Westminster to hold a referendum, obviously Catalonia has not asked central government for it’s blessing.

I imagine wee Jimmy Krankie hates having to ask permission like a naughty six year old. ;D
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Varche

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #4 on: 28 September 2017, 19:44:45 »

This Spanish newspaper site (in English) has some good articles

https://elpais.com/elpais/inenglish.html.

Interesting how the Russians are meddling. ::)

Rajoy will be on tenterhooks over it all. EU don't want it as it will only encourage other parts of countries to do the same. Pays Basque would be next ( imagine the issues with part of France and part of Spain wanting independence. :o)

Unlike Scotland , Catalonia and the Basque Country are real revenue generators. That is why in poor areas like Andalucia you are hard pressed to find anyone who thinks the vote is a good idea.

Polls show it to be a bit like the Brexit result i.e. fairly split. Problem is that IF the vote goes ahead I suspect the result will be a resounding vote for independence.  I just hope there isn't bloodshed.

NB on a lighter note there is also a story on that site of a woman who has been trying for seven years to prove she isn't dead! Only in Spain could you have such bureaucracy ;D ;D  https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/25/inenglish/1506343421_128552.html
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #5 on: 28 September 2017, 20:56:00 »

The one BIG difference is that Scotland obtained permission from Westminster to hold a referendum, obviously Catalonia has not asked central government for it’s blessing.

I don't know whether Catalonia asked Madrid or not to be honest.  If they did it seems likely the Spanish Government would have refused permission and Catalonia is going ahead anyway.  :-\

Thanks for the El Pais link Varche I'll have a look through that.  :y 
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Rods2

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #6 on: 29 September 2017, 00:08:15 »

iirc They did ask for permission and were robustly refused with a long diatribe on what would happen if they tried. :o :o :o
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Varche

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #7 on: 02 October 2017, 09:31:46 »

So what now?

Interesting that there has been collective omerta from the Eu heads of state re condemning police violence. There again break away states don't exactly fit into the superstate thinking. ;D Corsica, sardinia, Pays Basque ( part of France and Spain!), Wallonia and so on. There is a big list waiting on the sidelines.

Rajoy and the Spanish government have a very difficult 48 hours ahead. 
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #8 on: 02 October 2017, 09:42:55 »

I fully expect Boris to recognise the Republic of Catalonia and tell the world that the UK will be starting trade talks ASAP!  ::)  ;D
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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #9 on: 02 October 2017, 13:42:30 »

The response to this from the EU commission this morning was quite chilling to me.
They declared that the referendum was not legal and they trust the Spanish PM to manage the situation.
This reminded me very much of the kind of responses we used to hear from the Soviet Politburo, when people in Poland and elsewhere were protesting to try and re establish their nation states and were being attacked by their own police forces etc.
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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #10 on: 02 October 2017, 13:53:36 »

According to the Vice President of the European Parliament (Ramón Luis Valcárcel):
"Today we have witnessed a nationalistic propaganda act, undemocratic; a coup attempt against Spanish democracy, and so a coup against Europe"
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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #11 on: 02 October 2017, 15:00:31 »

The European dream will survive if you like it or not , so much for "the will of the people"
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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #12 on: 02 October 2017, 18:17:10 »

Well you can't have regions of countrys willy nilly deciding they can make there own laws.  As that then leads to chaos and anarchy. Where would you stop?

Well done to the Spanish Authorities.

:P
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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #13 on: 02 October 2017, 18:18:49 »

I think that we will see more of this sort of thing across the EU as the relentless march of integration accelerates once the chief obstacle to EU integration (ie the UK) is out of the way.  ::)

As people see more powers transferred from their national capitals to Brussels and the EU starts to levy direct taxes, (which inevitably they will) they will want to cut out the middleman and try and regain a sense of regional identity, as most European countries are a union of smaller states anyway.  ;)
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Varche

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #14 on: 02 October 2017, 18:23:06 »

 Not my words but this does make sense IMO:

The EU is in self-preservation mode. Their nightmare scenario goes.

Catalonia becomes independent and takes its revenue with it.

Rump Spain starts running an increasingly large deficit and starts getting into financial trouble.

A major Euro nations gets into financial trouble - a failing Spain is big enough to break the Euro.

A broken Euro would be the financial crisis to end all financial crisis's.

In many ways it's the law of unintended consequences at work. In trying to create a European superstate, the EU has:

Weakened the national identity of the nation states that make up the EU.

Given the potential for an newly independent state to join the single market - albeit after a minimum of five years to tick all the required boxes.

Chickens are slowly heading home to roost.
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