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[Entwood]

I cannot get my head around what would drive someone do do this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've never understood "mental illness" but I "assume" the gunman was "not of sound mind", even though, from the reports of the arsenal of weapons he had with him it was a "planned" (by him) attack ...

Heart goes out to the victims, and to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ... Amendments to Constitutions mean nowt compared to human lives ..

[zirk]

I cannot get my head around what would drive someone do do this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've never understood "mental illness" but I "assume" the gunman was "not of sound mind", even though, from the reports of the arsenal of weapons he had with him it was a "planned" (by him) attack ...

Heart goes out to the victims, and to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ... Amendments to Constitutions mean nowt compared to human lives ..

Its going to be a looong time before the Americans give up there Guns.

The US Police need to calm down as well, heres an interesting fact, on average the US Police shoot and kill more people over a 24 Day period than the UK Police in 24 Years.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I cannot get my head around what would drive someone do do this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've never understood "mental illness" but I "assume" the gunman was "not of sound mind", even though, from the reports of the arsenal of weapons he had with him it was a "planned" (by him) attack ...

Heart goes out to the victims, and to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ... Amendments to Constitutions mean nowt compared to human lives ..

That is what it needs.  But what will it take to make the purchase of weapons as difficult in the US as it is here?  It is a cultural thing, instilled in the American mind from birth and supported, as you rightly mention, by that dreadful Second Amendment that was designed for a completely different age.

As for the classification of "mental illness" being so often applied to these cases, it does nothing to help the victims and relatives; that is who should count.  Hitler had a mental illness, but who would give him any sympathy? No, these people do what they do due to an evil within them and they should be made to pay the price.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I cannot get my head around what would drive someone do do this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've never understood "mental illness" but I "assume" the gunman was "not of sound mind", even though, from the reports of the arsenal of weapons he had with him it was a "planned" (by him) attack ...

Heart goes out to the victims, and to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ... Amendments to Constitutions mean nowt compared to human lives ..

Its going to be a looong time before the Americans give up there Guns.

The US Police need to calm down as well, heres an interesting fact, on average the US Police shoot and kill more people over a 24 Day period than the UK Police in 24 Years.

That is because the police know that with almost every car stopped, or person apprehended in the street, a gun will feature in the situation.  The police have to protect themselves from what the Second Amendment gives "the right" to.  I wouldn't ever want to be a cop in the US!

I have googled a question on how many cops die in the US, and this is what is stated for 2016:
"Overall, including traffic fatalities and other causes, 135 police officers died in the line of duty in 2016, NLEOMF says. That's 10 percent more than died last year, and the largest tally since 2011, when 177 officers died — 73 of them in firearms-related incidents.30 Dec 2016"

[Bigron]

Lizzie, "culture" and "Americans" in the same sentence? That defines oxymoron, yes?
Trouble is, they all think they are John Wayne.....

Ron.

[Varche]

America/ guns /stupidity


Awful for those involved. NOTHING will change after today.

[aaronjb]

to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ...

I read somewhere (can't recall where, now) that the weapon in use was in fact already a banned weapon in the US.

[Doctor Gollum]

to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ...

I read somewhere (can't recall where, now) that the weapon in use was in fact already a banned weapon in the US.

At last, some sense

Given the remoteness of some parts of North America, and the number of actual predators living there, having an appropriate gun and the ability to use it is essential to survival... both in terms of gathering food and defence.

The key word being appropriate... arguably a hollow tipped 9mm round in a semi automatic hand gun could never be considered appropriate, and anything capable of holding more than ten rounds should be outlawed, even in the least salubrious areas.

Removing the right to bear arms from the Constitution will never happen, however, with some careful lobbying, the word 'Appropriate' could be readily added.

Ultimately though, it is down to individual States to interpret the Constitution as each see fit, hence the lack of progress from the Anti gun lobby

[Lizzie Zoom]

to the Gun Lobby and American politicians... fo gods sake do something about guns in America ...

I read somewhere (can't recall where, now) that the weapon in use was in fact already a banned weapon in the US.

At last, some sense

Given the remoteness of some parts of North America, and the number of actual predators living there, having an appropriate gun and the ability to use it is essential to survival... both in terms of gathering food and defence.

The key word being appropriate... arguably a hollow tipped 9mm round in a semi automatic hand gun could never be considered appropriate, and anything capable of holding more than ten rounds should be outlawed, even in the least salubrious areas.

Removing the right to bear arms from the Constitution will never happen, however, with some careful lobbying, the word 'Appropriate' could be readily added.

Ultimately though, it is down to individual States to interpret the Constitution as each see fit, hence the lack of progress from the Anti gun lobby

The population of the USA is estimated at 323 million, and of those 81% live in urban environments.

Now I understand what you are saying DG, and you are right, in the wildest and most remote parts of the States they need guns.  But, they do not need assault rifles, which are illegal in most States if you can truly define such a weapon, along with any weapon beyond a hand gun in the urban areas. Have you physically seen the weapons a US citizen can buy legally? I have and it is frightening.

As you say "appropriateness" is the crucial factor, but America really must at least start to outlaw the "non-appropriate" weapons now, even though the opposition is severe. But these gun related incidents cannot continue and in fact get worse in a so called civilized society.  The Law should allow however for the citizens of the wildest, most thinly populated States, to carry appropriate weapons for self defence.

[Bigron]

Zoo-keepers manage perfectly well with anaesthetic darts.

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Zoo-keepers manage perfectly well with anaesthetic darts.

Ron.

Only if the animal is not charging towards you and is behind fencing Ron.  Any escaped wild animal like a big cat is shot if it represents a danger to humans, as are rampaging dogs who are shot by our police.

[Andy B]

  ....
Have you physically seen the weapons a US citizen can buy legally? I have and it is frightening.....

Many many years ago ...... a few of us were sat in a fast food place in America, when these 2 coppers came in & sat at the table next to us. One removed his gun & put it on the table in front of him. I thought Dirty Harry had sat down. No idea what kind of gun it was but it was HUGE!! As was the copper 

[Bigron]

Yep. JohnWayne-itis; clearly a rampant disease over there. 

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

  ....
Have you physically seen the weapons a US citizen can buy legally? I have and it is frightening.....

Many many years ago ...... a few of us were sat in a fast food place in America, when these 2 coppers came in & sat at the table next to us. One removed his gun & put it on the table in front of him. I thought Dirty Harry had sat down. No idea what kind of gun it was but it was HUGE!! As was the copper 

Probably a Magnum!

I understand nowadays their handguns are often Glocks

[TheBoy]

Would it sound insensitive if I said the world was over populated?

 

[TheBoy]

Though, granted, there are many far more deserving candidates for the essential population adjustment.

[Varche]

Would it sound insensitive if I said the world was over populated?

 

No. Time for a war that reduces numbers and other problems albeit temporarily

[TheBoy]

Would it sound insensitive if I said the world was over populated?

 

No. Time for a war that reduces numbers and other problems albeit temporarily

Over to Trump and the Norks leader then

[Sir Tigger KC]

Wasn't one of the first things that Trump did when he got into The White House was to repeal a law enacted by the Obama administration, which banned people with known mental health issues from owning guns? 

[BazaJT]

Well he was "sane" enough to book a hotel room and get 10 guns up there,early reports said the police had shot him when they stormed the room,while later reports say he shot himself.Whichever way he's gone so I guess we'll never really know the reason for him committing this atrocity.Sympathies are with the families of all the victims.

[ronnyd]

Just wonder what sort of shite his brother and the rest of his family are going to experience after this. The immediate family usually have a torrid time due to the actions of a sibling.

[Doctor Gollum]

Just wonder what sort of shite his brother and the rest of his family are going to experience after this. The immediate family usually have a torrid time due to the actions of a sibling.

Seeing the state his brother was in on the news, there lives are just as devastated "as if he had shot their kids"

Sometimes there is no sense to be made from these tragic events

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Often carried out by people who either smoke a lot of dope or take anti depressants. We may find out in time.

[Doctor Gollum]

Just wonder what sort of shite his brother and the rest of his family are going to experience after this. The immediate family usually have a torrid time due to the actions of a sibling.

Seeing the state his brother was in on the news, their lives are just as devastated "as if he had shot their kids"

Sometimes there is no sense to be made from these tragic events

Edited for an almost unforgivable grammatical faux pas

[Viral_Jim]

Another factor to consider is mental health services - access in the US is limited to those who can afford to pay, and those worst off are often most likely to be in need of help. Although given the guy in this case was a retired accountant, its unlikely he fell into that category.

The right to bear arms is a continuing source of confusion to me, it already has limits placed upon it, around certain types of ordinance and nuclear weapons, both of which are just as much "arms" as rifles, semi-automatic handguns etc. So if you want to talk about the principle of it, then that principle is already dead.

While these events are tragic, the American people as a group continue to reject both the concepts of universal (mental) healthcare and any sensible limits on gun ownership, as such, mass shootings will forever remain the price of "the American way".

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I believe the majority of U.S. citizens are in favour of stricter gun control, but the NRA are an extremely strong lobby group.

[Doctor Gollum]

Saw an episode of Family Guy last night, where the baby gets kidnapped by a latino woman, and when the dog came to rescue him, the captors wouldn't release the baby, so he (the baby) pulled out a handgun and shot everyone, saying that it was a shame it had come to that as they had actually been quite nice to him...

Utterly inappropriate on several levels, not least the timing, so you really can't help but wonder how most Americans are still normal, decent people

[Lizzie Zoom]

Another factor to consider is mental health services - access in the US is limited to those who can afford to pay, and those worst off are often most likely to be in need of help. Although given the guy in this case was a retired accountant, its unlikely he fell into that category.

The right to bear arms is a continuing source of confusion to me, it already has limits placed upon it, around certain types of ordinance and nuclear weapons, both of which are just as much "arms" as rifles, semi-automatic handguns etc. So if you want to talk about the principle of it, then that principle is already dead.

While these events are tragic, the American people as a group continue to reject both the concepts of universal (mental) healthcare and any sensible limits on gun ownership, as such, mass shootings will forever remain the price of "the American way".

It now is being said he was a millionaire with various properties.

He apparently used assault rifles in this attack.

White House saying it is too early to talk about gun controls, but the American people are starting to really say something different.

This side of the pond we can only speculate on what could happen, IF anything given Trump is against gun controls and wants every American to feel free to carry arms. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well he was "sane" enough to book a hotel room and get 10 guns up there,early reports said the police had shot him when they stormed the room,while later reports say he shot himself.Whichever way he's gone so I guess we'll never really know the reason for him committing this atrocity.Sympathies are with the families of all the victims.

The authorities now say 23 guns were found in that hotel room, and there is a suspicion that some of those guns used were altered to allow for very rapid firing, 90 rounds in 10 seconds; far faster than a human can pull a trigger.

[Entwood]

Well he was "sane" enough to book a hotel room and get 10 guns up there,early reports said the police had shot him when they stormed the room,while later reports say he shot himself.Whichever way he's gone so I guess we'll never really know the reason for him committing this atrocity.Sympathies are with the families of all the victims.

The authorities now say 23 guns were found in that hotel room, and there is a suspicion that some of those guns used were altered to allow for very rapid firing, 90 rounds in 10 seconds; far faster than a human can pull a trigger.

23 guns in the hotel room plus 19 more at his house, plus "thousands" of rounds plus explosives plus "electronic devices"!!  he certainly seemed prepared for what he intended !!

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well he was "sane" enough to book a hotel room and get 10 guns up there,early reports said the police had shot him when they stormed the room,while later reports say he shot himself.Whichever way he's gone so I guess we'll never really know the reason for him committing this atrocity.Sympathies are with the families of all the victims.

The authorities now say 23 guns were found in that hotel room, and there is a suspicion that some of those guns used were altered to allow for very rapid firing, 90 rounds in 10 seconds; far faster than a human can pull a trigger.

23 guns in the hotel room plus 19 more at his house, plus "thousands" of rounds plus explosives plus "electronic devices"!!  he certainly seemed prepared for what he intended !!

I wonder how many more Americans, thousands, possibly millions, have an arsenal of weapons on this scale or even far greater.  I read somewhere that there are apparently 300 million guns in the USA, almost one for every American.  I reckon on the basis of this case and others we have read about that it is far greater in number than this.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I wonder how many more Americans, thousands, possibly millions, have an arsenal of weapons on this scale or even far greater.  I read somewhere that there are apparently 300 million guns in the USA, almost one for every American.  I reckon on the basis of this case and others we have read about that it is far greater in number than this.

My mate used to live in Houston TX and his suburban house had a gun safe the size of a large wardrobe, with a rack for 10-15 rifles and large drawers for handguns and ammo.     Apparently this is normal in Texas and I'm sure across much of the US. 

[STEMO]

Perhaps, like a lot of people, he couldn’t stand country and western.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Hank Williams. 

I think its difficult for us to understand the American mentality. Freedom is a big thing to them. If the state can hold as many weapons as it wants to but citizens aren't allowed weapons, then they consider that a great threat to their freedom and the state become too big and powerful.
I can understand that, but as already said, it already has limits, and its obviously time the limits were tightened. When almost anyone can walk into Walmart and fill their trolley with an array of guns and ammo along with their groceries, and then go out and slaughter many innocent people, only a moron would argue against some kind of change being the sensible course of action.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Hank Williams. 

I think its difficult for us to understand the American mentality. Freedom is a big thing to them. If the state can hold as many weapons as it wants to but citizens aren't allowed weapons, then they consider that a great threat to their freedom and the state become too big and powerful.
I can understand that, but as already said, it already has limits, and its obviously time the limits were tightened. When almost anyone can walk into Walmart and fill their trolley with an array of guns and ammo along with their groceries, and then go out and slaughter many innocent people, only a moron would argue against some kind of change being the sensible course of action.

Only a moron Country would rule that automatic assault weapons are illegal, semi-automatic are not, but (according to an American correspondent) there is a device you can buy from gun shops LEGALLY that converts a semi to a full automatic.  I love the USA, but things like this.................

My ex-military American friends didn't own any guns as they disagreed strongly with them being so readily available, and that was in the 1990's.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

It isn't a moron country, its a great country, where polls show a majority of people favour tighter restrictions on ownership of weapons.
It needs some of its more sensible politicians to come up with a plan to take on the very powerful NRA.

[Lizzie Zoom]

It isn't a moron country, its a great country, where polls show a majority of people favour tighter restrictions on ownership of weapons.
It needs some of its more sensible politicians to come up with a plan to take on the very powerful NRA.

But it is the people who are voting in their politicians, who are in a majority Republicans, including of course Trump.  The Republicans hold the majority in both Houses, and are in their strongest position since 1928.  Most Americans understand the connection between the Repuplican Party and the NRA and them being totally against an anti-gun control policy, yet it is the Repuplicans who get the vote. So, yes, it is moronic that the situation is as it is and obviously your highlighted statement does not ring true in practice. The people make the country, and yes it is a great country which, as I said, I love. But on this issue the people/country is generally moronic.

[Bigron]

Aw Lizzie, you can't blame the people: they were faced with a choice between Trump and Clinton, neither of whom were worth a single vote it the first place.
What were they to do - not vote at all?

Ron.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Exactly. Many people voted while holding their noses in the election.
I would imagine most Americans still believe in the right to bear arms, under certain circumstances, which I can understand. But don't believe people should be allowed to wander around willy nilly with automatic assault rifles.

[Bigron]

I am unable to understand this "Right to bear arms" concept. If you have a gun, surely you know that you intend to use it, which makes you a potential murderer? If you never intend to use it, why have it in the first place?
I accept that there are places in remote areas where there are predators, as has been stated, but in the vast majority of locations, no such dangers exist, so NO excuse.

Ron.

[Andy B]

...... If you have a gun, surely you know that you intend to use it, which makes you a potential murderer? If you never intend to use it, why have it in the first place? .....

Isn't that the same argument for having nuclear weapons? 

[Entwood]

I am unable to understand this "Right to bear arms" concept. If you have a gun, surely you know that you intend to use it, which makes you a potential murderer? If you never intend to use it, why have it in the first place?
I accept that there are places in remote areas where there are predators, as has been stated, but in the vast majority of locations, no such dangers exist, so NO excuse.

Ron.

That's 'cos you ain't old enough .. by about 200 and a few years !!

The "right to bear arms" was enshrined in the US constitution as the 2nd Amendment in 1791 and reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

and the wording is important ..  VERY important

At the time idea of the "united" states was very, very new, and each state was still pretty autonomous, and protected its perceived "rights" with vigour. There was a strong fear that the "new" centralised government would "take over" and restrict each states right to self defence, among other things. The idea of a central army did not exist, each town / state / region formed its own local militia.

Hence the precise wording that starts "a well regulated militia......"  and includes "the security of a free State" gives a strong indication of the purpose for which it was made.

Those days are long since past, but the NRA has distorted the real reason for Amendment 2 and focuses on the narrow last few words "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." which is not what the Founding Fathers intended, and is not needed in modern society as the actual idea of forming a militia to protect a state is somewhat ridiculous.

However, that's why the words exist, that's how they have been distorted, and that's why America is in mourning right now.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Very informative and well written. 

[LC0112G]

That's 'cos you ain't old enough .. by about 200 and a few years !!

The "right to bear arms" was enshrined in the US constitution as the 2nd Amendment in 1791 and reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

and the wording is important ..  VERY important

At the time idea of the "united" states was very, very new, and each state was still pretty autonomous, and protected its perceived "rights" with vigour. There was a strong fear that the "new" centralised government would "take over" and restrict each states right to self defence, among other things. The idea of a central army did not exist, each town / state / region formed its own local militia.

Hence the precise wording that starts "a well regulated militia......"  and includes "the security of a free State" gives a strong indication of the purpose for which it was made.

Those days are long since past, but the NRA has distorted the real reason for Amendment 2 and focuses on the narrow last few words "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." which is not what the Founding Fathers intended, and is not needed in modern society as the actual idea of forming a militia to protect a state is somewhat ridiculous.

However, that's why the words exist, that's how they have been distorted, and that's why America is in mourning right now.

Err, not quite. Each state has a "National Guard" - these are the Militia men that protect the state. Some states have an "Air National Guard" which operate front line aircraft to protect the state(s). Some (most) have an "Army National Guard" which are fully armed soldiers. The National Guard(s) are manned by a mix of full time and part time soldiers/airmen, but report directly to the governors of their respective states.

Federal forces include the regular Army, Airforce (USAF) and Navy. These are controlled by the President. In peacetime, the president does NOT and cannot control the national guard(s). Further the regular Army, Airforce and Navy are forbidden by law from operating within the 50 states - they are for use abroad only. This is why whenever there is a natural disaster in the USA it's always the (Army) National Guard that's called in, and never the Army/Marines. If the state Governors need more help they first request it from neibouring states governors who then supply their own National Guards. It's only in extreme cases where the governors request federal help that the Army/Navy/Marines get involved.

Air defence of the continental USA is performed only by Air National Guard units. Regular USAF units do not stand QRA.

In time of war, the President can mobilise NG units and 'merge' them into regular operations. However, this can only be used for operations abroad. He can't mobilise the Nevada ArNG and then order them to invade California for instance.

However, as you say "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is where the prolems all really lie.

[BazaJT]

Apparently he even rigged cctv cameras in the hallwayso he could monitor the approach of the police.They are going to talk to his girlfriend-who was out of the country-to see if she can shed any light on possible motives he may have had for doing this.

[Doctor Gollum]

There is no rational explanation for events such as this or those before it... to deliberately shoot at an unarmed crowd without prejudice will always be beyond comprehension The United States is a fiercely proud country, with several fundamental founding principles, all of which centre on a genuine desire to obtain, enjoy and defend the freedom of the people.

Granted, the whole principle was intended as a counter against the rule of foreign monarchs and aristocrats, and is consequently somewhat outdated, the core sentiment still stands true and American society lives, and dies, by it and for it.

We can never fully comprehend or appreciate the American mindset because we have never had the constitutional freedom that the United States was founded on, although we may well begin to when we leave the EU...

[Bigron]

I think we can empathise with the reasons for their Constitution, DG: look at the way we are governed, with self-serving politicians and administrators implementing policies to over-restrict us needlessly, usually in the name of revenue generation, to add to their power and excessive salaries.
It is still a fairly feudal system.

Ron.

[biggriffin]

This is a very American thing, mass shootings, has nobody asked why?
Go to Africa /middle east, Ak47, and various other weapons are freely available from street traders, yet they don't have mass shootings of innocents,  Unless you class sunni's and sharia's killing each other.

[Bigron]

Um, the Germans had mass killings a while back.....

Ron.

[Andy B]

Um, the Germans had mass killings a while back.....

Ron.

So did Norway a few years ago

Norway police say 85 killed in island youth camp attack - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356

But America does have way more than others.

[biggriffin]

Um, the Germans had mass killings a while back.....

Ron.

.

They called that " final solution" or as some here might say a cull.

[amazonian]

Death by handgun last year in,

japan   48
UK       8
Switzerland  34
Canada  52
Israel    58
Sweden  21
West Germany  42

USA   10,768

 

[Doctor Gollum]

Death by handgun last year in,

japan   76/127,000,000 
UK       151/66,000,000
Switzerland 251/8,372,000
Canada  715/36,290,000
Israel    179/8,574,000
Sweden  147/9,973,000
Germany  84/82,670,000
Honduras 6,123/9,113,000
Venezuela 18,667/31,570,000
USA   34054/323,100,000

 

Populations and a couple of extra countries thrown in for a degree of perspective...

Sources: World Bank for populations, and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate for numbers per 100,000 population.

The US has ten times the population of Venezuela, yet less than twice the number of fire arm related deaths, and thirty times the population of Honduras yet less than a sixth of the number of fire arms related deaths. This places Central America beneath Turkey and North Africa on my list of places that 'should have been visited in 1965 but I wouldn't go to now'

In no way am I trying to condone the unjustifiable shooting of random people, this simply should not be allowed or tolerated. The obvious difficulty is how you even begin to restrict the actions of an almost unmeasureably small number of people within a population of 323.1 million

Incidentally, as many people die in the US in car crashes as get shot. Should they ban cars whilst they're at it?

[aaronjb]

The US has ten times the population of Venezuela, yet less than twice the number of fire arm related deaths,

That one, at least, is probably not the best comparison (the others might be, though, I have no knowledge) - I work with a very nice Venezuelan chap and by all reports Venezuela is in a state of complete anarchy; no food, no money, live & die by the sword, kill to get what you need to survive..

The US, last I checked, is relatively prosperous. Although now I say it, it does also have a huge poverty problem so .. maybe it is a valid comparison, after all.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Perhaps we can look forward to living in a European Venezuela if Comrade Corbyn gets into number 10.
He does seem to hero worship its leadership and methods of running a society.

[Doctor Gollum]

The US has ten times the population of Venezuela, yet less than twice the number of fire arm related deaths,

That one, at least, is probably not the best comparison (the others might be, though, I have no knowledge) - I work with a very nice Venezuelan chap and by all reports Venezuela is in a state of complete anarchy; no food, no money, live & die by the sword, kill to get what you need to survive..

The US, last I checked, is relatively prosperous. Although now I say it, it does also have a huge poverty problem so .. maybe it is a valid comparison, after all.

Perhaps a timely reminder of this piece...

https://youtu.be/VMqcLUqYqrs

Granted, the 'statistics' given are perhaps off, but it's still valid.

The solution to most societal problems lies with education, not ever stricter regulation.

Given its age compared to other sovereign states, is it perhaps no surprise that the US is a little naive in believing that Freedom can be applied to everything and that society as a whole posesses the responsibility that this demands

When you consider by comparison, that certain parts of Europe have gone from relative mundanity to being effective dictatorships twice in the last hundred years, you might conclude that the American approach is the more righteous one.*

*out dated firearm controls notwithstanding.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Did they ever take the gun from Charlton Heston's " cold dead hand"?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Lizzie, "culture" and "Americans" in the same sentence? That defines oxymoron, yes?
Trouble is, they all think they are John Wayne.....

Ron.

...the hell they do.

[New POD]

I may be borderline aspergers, and I have no particular empathy with anyone in the USA, apart from my sister, her kids and their kids, but who cares about 59 people in Las Vegas ? What about the other 12,000 killed by guns in the USA ?  If 12,000 are not enough to change the law, then why should 59 ?

There are 87 guns or riffles per 100 of the population (I think) .  Assuming that some people have more than 1, does that mean that about 50% of the population DON'T have a gun? 

Mental ? The real mental Americans are those that don't want to change the law.

[Doctor Gollum]

I may be borderline aspergers, and I have no particular empathy with anyone in the USA, apart from my sister, her kids and their kids, but who cares about 59 people in Las Vegas ? What about the other 12,000 killed by guns in the USA ?  If 12,000 are not enough to change the law, then why should 59 ?

There are 87 guns or riffles per 100 of the population (I think) .  Assuming that some people have more than 1, does that mean that about 50% of the population DON'T have a gun? 

Mental ? The real mental Americans are those that don't want to change the law.

From my earlier source, it is actually 112.7 firearms per hundred people.

I strongly suspect that the number of people with more than ten guns is a fraction of those with none, and that the majority of people who own more than one live in either Texas or traditional hunting areas such as the Southern States and the more remote areas of the Northwest.

This... (ad heavy  )

https://qz.com/437015/mapped-the-us-states-with-the-most-gun-owners-and-most-gun-deaths/

bears this out... hardly surprising that more people get shot (regardless of malicious intent) where there are more guns the ratio of guns to number of shootings is probably pretty flat across the US, but we won't let that ruin a perfectly good argument.

Some balanced, for once, statistics from Aunty too...

[Bigron]

[quote
Incidentally, as many people die in the US in car crashes as get shot. Should they ban cars whilst they're at it?
[/quote]

Not a valid analogy - the car's sole purpose isn't to kill.

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

[quote
Incidentally, as many people die in the US in car crashes as get shot. Should they ban cars whilst they're at it?

Not a valid analogy - the car's sole purpose isn't to kill.

Ron.
[/quote]
Perhaps not, but they seem to be pretty efficient at it... 

Besides, I would wager that most American gun owners either hunt or own a weapon for deterrence or defence rather than to actually kill anything... the sound of a round being chambered is probably enough to deter most ne'erdowells, and nothing says "Opps off" better than the cruch of a shotgun.