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[Doctor Gollum]

There is no rational explanation for events such as this or those before it... to deliberately shoot at an unarmed crowd without prejudice will always be beyond comprehension The United States is a fiercely proud country, with several fundamental founding principles, all of which centre on a genuine desire to obtain, enjoy and defend the freedom of the people.

Granted, the whole principle was intended as a counter against the rule of foreign monarchs and aristocrats, and is consequently somewhat outdated, the core sentiment still stands true and American society lives, and dies, by it and for it.

We can never fully comprehend or appreciate the American mindset because we have never had the constitutional freedom that the United States was founded on, although we may well begin to when we leave the EU...

[Bigron]

I think we can empathise with the reasons for their Constitution, DG: look at the way we are governed, with self-serving politicians and administrators implementing policies to over-restrict us needlessly, usually in the name of revenue generation, to add to their power and excessive salaries.
It is still a fairly feudal system.

Ron.

[biggriffin]

This is a very American thing, mass shootings, has nobody asked why?
Go to Africa /middle east, Ak47, and various other weapons are freely available from street traders, yet they don't have mass shootings of innocents,  Unless you class sunni's and sharia's killing each other.

[Bigron]

Um, the Germans had mass killings a while back.....

Ron.

[Andy B]

Um, the Germans had mass killings a while back.....

Ron.

So did Norway a few years ago

Norway police say 85 killed in island youth camp attack - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356

But America does have way more than others.

[biggriffin]

Um, the Germans had mass killings a while back.....

Ron.

.

They called that " final solution" or as some here might say a cull.

[amazonian]

Death by handgun last year in,

japan   48
UK       8
Switzerland  34
Canada  52
Israel    58
Sweden  21
West Germany  42

USA   10,768

 

[Doctor Gollum]

Death by handgun last year in,

japan   76/127,000,000 
UK       151/66,000,000
Switzerland 251/8,372,000
Canada  715/36,290,000
Israel    179/8,574,000
Sweden  147/9,973,000
Germany  84/82,670,000
Honduras 6,123/9,113,000
Venezuela 18,667/31,570,000
USA   34054/323,100,000

 

Populations and a couple of extra countries thrown in for a degree of perspective...

Sources: World Bank for populations, and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate for numbers per 100,000 population.

The US has ten times the population of Venezuela, yet less than twice the number of fire arm related deaths, and thirty times the population of Honduras yet less than a sixth of the number of fire arms related deaths. This places Central America beneath Turkey and North Africa on my list of places that 'should have been visited in 1965 but I wouldn't go to now'

In no way am I trying to condone the unjustifiable shooting of random people, this simply should not be allowed or tolerated. The obvious difficulty is how you even begin to restrict the actions of an almost unmeasureably small number of people within a population of 323.1 million

Incidentally, as many people die in the US in car crashes as get shot. Should they ban cars whilst they're at it?

[aaronjb]

The US has ten times the population of Venezuela, yet less than twice the number of fire arm related deaths,

That one, at least, is probably not the best comparison (the others might be, though, I have no knowledge) - I work with a very nice Venezuelan chap and by all reports Venezuela is in a state of complete anarchy; no food, no money, live & die by the sword, kill to get what you need to survive..

The US, last I checked, is relatively prosperous. Although now I say it, it does also have a huge poverty problem so .. maybe it is a valid comparison, after all.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Perhaps we can look forward to living in a European Venezuela if Comrade Corbyn gets into number 10.
He does seem to hero worship its leadership and methods of running a society.

[Doctor Gollum]

The US has ten times the population of Venezuela, yet less than twice the number of fire arm related deaths,

That one, at least, is probably not the best comparison (the others might be, though, I have no knowledge) - I work with a very nice Venezuelan chap and by all reports Venezuela is in a state of complete anarchy; no food, no money, live & die by the sword, kill to get what you need to survive..

The US, last I checked, is relatively prosperous. Although now I say it, it does also have a huge poverty problem so .. maybe it is a valid comparison, after all.

Perhaps a timely reminder of this piece...

https://youtu.be/VMqcLUqYqrs

Granted, the 'statistics' given are perhaps off, but it's still valid.

The solution to most societal problems lies with education, not ever stricter regulation.

Given its age compared to other sovereign states, is it perhaps no surprise that the US is a little naive in believing that Freedom can be applied to everything and that society as a whole posesses the responsibility that this demands

When you consider by comparison, that certain parts of Europe have gone from relative mundanity to being effective dictatorships twice in the last hundred years, you might conclude that the American approach is the more righteous one.*

*out dated firearm controls notwithstanding.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Did they ever take the gun from Charlton Heston's " cold dead hand"?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Lizzie, "culture" and "Americans" in the same sentence? That defines oxymoron, yes?
Trouble is, they all think they are John Wayne.....

Ron.

...the hell they do.

[New POD]

I may be borderline aspergers, and I have no particular empathy with anyone in the USA, apart from my sister, her kids and their kids, but who cares about 59 people in Las Vegas ? What about the other 12,000 killed by guns in the USA ?  If 12,000 are not enough to change the law, then why should 59 ?

There are 87 guns or riffles per 100 of the population (I think) .  Assuming that some people have more than 1, does that mean that about 50% of the population DON'T have a gun? 

Mental ? The real mental Americans are those that don't want to change the law.

[Doctor Gollum]

I may be borderline aspergers, and I have no particular empathy with anyone in the USA, apart from my sister, her kids and their kids, but who cares about 59 people in Las Vegas ? What about the other 12,000 killed by guns in the USA ?  If 12,000 are not enough to change the law, then why should 59 ?

There are 87 guns or riffles per 100 of the population (I think) .  Assuming that some people have more than 1, does that mean that about 50% of the population DON'T have a gun? 

Mental ? The real mental Americans are those that don't want to change the law.

From my earlier source, it is actually 112.7 firearms per hundred people.

I strongly suspect that the number of people with more than ten guns is a fraction of those with none, and that the majority of people who own more than one live in either Texas or traditional hunting areas such as the Southern States and the more remote areas of the Northwest.

This... (ad heavy  )

https://qz.com/437015/mapped-the-us-states-with-the-most-gun-owners-and-most-gun-deaths/

bears this out... hardly surprising that more people get shot (regardless of malicious intent) where there are more guns the ratio of guns to number of shootings is probably pretty flat across the US, but we won't let that ruin a perfectly good argument.

Some balanced, for once, statistics from Aunty too...