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Author Topic: Removing drop arm from steering box  (Read 422 times)

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terry paget

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Removing drop arm from steering box
« on: 08 October 2017, 15:32:23 »

2.5 petrol manual estate
Changing wishbones, track road and drop links has got me nowhere, steering still wanders. I now suspect joint between steering box and central track rod, which is very sloppy. But I can't get it off. Haynes says use a suitable puller. I do not possess a suitable puller; access is poor and gap between item is too narrow for the oullers I have. Would heat help? I have done this job before and the arm fell off easily - not this time. Any suggestions? Pic follows.
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Stige

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #2 on: 08 October 2017, 16:21:53 »

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cam.in.head

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #3 on: 08 October 2017, 16:40:48 »

Yes what he said ! .. They seperate as you would with a track rod end but as you say access is limited. Last time i did one i used a tapered fork seperator inbetween.(nothing to damage cos its scrap anyway)to give it some tension and then the two hammer method as per normal.these joints only rotate on one plane so should never have any movement sideways at all. They are usually very long lived .ive seen them last 200k on carltons and senators if the rubber boots are good.ive also heard of aftermarket replacements not lasting long or even having a little twisting movement when new so it would be nice to fit a genuine gm but they can be expensive .used gm would be fine but obviously check for careless removal/damaged boots
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #4 on: 08 October 2017, 16:43:35 »

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61i7YSfl0aL._SY355_.jpg

? Best tool ever.
I have several of those, tried the lot. Trouble is the gap between the 2 arms is so small they don't go in. The arm is only supported by the steering box, so it yields.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #5 on: 08 October 2017, 16:46:21 »

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61i7YSfl0aL._SY355_.jpg

? Best tool ever.


Two big hammers.
Don't be gentle with them either.
You mean like the guide recommends to remove the drop arm. Access is bad and I could not imagine any way to spring the joint, like the chisel does on the drop arm. Also I only have one big hammer.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #6 on: 08 October 2017, 16:52:06 »

Yes what he said ! .. They seperate as you would with a track rod end but as you say access is limited. Last time i did one i used a tapered fork seperator inbetween.(nothing to damage cos its scrap anyway)to give it some tension and then the two hammer method as per normal.these joints only rotate on one plane so should never have any movement sideways at all. They are usually very long lived .ive seen them last 200k on carltons and senators if the rubber boots are good.ive also heard of aftermarket replacements not lasting long or even having a little twisting movement when new so it would be nice to fit a genuine gm but they can be expensive .used gm would be fine but obviously check for careless removal/damaged boots
The others I have replaced were, as you said, quite stiff. This one is amazingly sloppy, simply loose.  I had an Omega fail MOT 2 years back on play in this joint ; it came off easily enough, New Vx costs over 200, Lemforder did one for 50, which I fitted; within a year it was loose.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #7 on: 08 October 2017, 16:54:28 »

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61i7YSfl0aL._SY355_.jpg

? Best tool ever.


Two big hammers.
Don't be gentle with them either.
You mean like the guide recommends to remove the drop arm. Access is bad and I could not imagine any way to spring the joint, like the chisel does on the drop arm. Also I only have one big hammer.


Trying to release tapers with either a wedge or lever type splitter is much harder work than springing them apart with two hammers. Buy another hammer. A big one.Your balljoint problems will disappear.

It's been years since I used any of the splitters that I own.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #8 on: 08 October 2017, 17:06:29 »

Thanks to all for advice, I am defeated. I have a second big hammer at work, I will bring it home tomorrow; my worry is access.
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Bigron

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #9 on: 08 October 2017, 17:43:38 »

I'm sure that you already know this, but the larger hammer goes behind the hoint and whack it with the smaller one.
Just like the old joke about "bricking the camel", don't get your thumbs caught in the middle!  :o

Ron.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #10 on: 08 October 2017, 17:48:17 »

No wonder it wont move if he hits the hoint ;D
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Stige

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #11 on: 08 October 2017, 17:51:47 »

I'm sure that you already know this, but the larger hammer goes behind the hoint and whack it with the smaller one.
Just like the old joke about "bricking the camel", don't get your thumbs caught in the middle!  :o

Ron.

Can you paint a picture? I dont seem to understand how you mean :o
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Bigron

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #12 on: 08 October 2017, 18:09:10 »

Er, is this a wind-up? If not, I'll explain the complete joke, if you are too young to remember it!  :y

Ron.
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mandula

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #13 on: 08 October 2017, 18:09:38 »

This is how I finally did it  ::)

Tried to use force to get it off, but finally I was defeated and needed to use some brains (or something like that).
I used angle grinder and small blade to cut it from the ball joint's base, just enough that I could then break that base by hammering where tie rod end is attached. It was really easy job done like that, but only works if you are planning to replace that central rod  8)

« Last Edit: 08 October 2017, 18:23:29 by mandula »
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #14 on: 08 October 2017, 18:58:08 »

This is how I finally did it  ::)

Tried to use force to get it off, but finally I was defeated and needed to use some brains (or something like that).
I used angle grinder and small blade to cut it from the ball joint's base, just enough that I could then break that base by hammering where tie rod end is attached. It was really easy job done like that, but only works if you are planning to replace that central rod  8)


Thank you. You angle grind the end of the tie rod around the ball joint, then hammer it until the ball is released. This still leaves the pin stuck in the taper of the arm from the steering box. You do not say how you remove the pin from the arm, though I imagine you could easily use a lever and screw splitter for this.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #15 on: 08 October 2017, 19:16:44 »

Gentlemen, here are my plans for tomorrow, if unwise please tell me.
Plan a)on the wall by the car is a sledge hammer, sort of thing I knock down walls with. I have son Ben hold this behind the taper ( it has a long handle) while I bash the taper with my heavy hammer. If that fails I hold the sledge and Ben (stronger than me) bashes the taper while I hold the sledge hammer;
plan b) I support the arm from steering box from below, with axle stand, on bricks if necessary; I heat the taper with gas torch; from above I place a socket on long extensions on the nut on top of the pin and bash it with the heavy hammer;
plan c) mandula's scheme with the angle grinder.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #16 on: 08 October 2017, 19:35:46 »

You're making this out to be much harder than it is.


Use Plan A, but get your son to do the hitting. It really isn't difficult. You do know that you're striking the socket, and NOT trying to knock the pin out?


A gas torch won't apply enough heat to anything useful. Cutting it apart is just butchery, and takes longer than breaking the balljoint with two hammers.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #17 on: 08 October 2017, 19:46:10 »

You're making this out to be much harder than it is.


Use Plan A, but get your son to do the hitting. It really isn't difficult. You do know that you're striking the socket, and NOT trying to knock the pin out?


A gas torch won't apply enough heat to anything useful. Cutting it apart is just butchery, and takes longer than breaking the balljoint with two hammers.

HALP ME UNDERSTAND!! How do you break them apart with 2 hammers  :o
I feel so silly and confused :(

I mean the fork tool has worked for me in every single situation with a few hits on the end when nothing else has but I'm still very curious how you do it with 2 hammers.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #18 on: 08 October 2017, 20:31:52 »

You're making this out to be much harder than it is.


Use Plan A, but get your son to do the hitting. It really isn't difficult. You do know that you're striking the socket, and NOT trying to knock the pin out?


A gas torch won't apply enough heat to anything useful. Cutting it apart is just butchery, and takes longer than breaking the balljoint with two hammers.
I am placing the sledge hammer behind the tapered hole in the drop arm while son Ben bashes from the other side, so that the tapered hole in the arm deforms and releases the pin, which drops out, right? I have done it before, in fact it's the forum recommended method for the idler arm. Plan A is my favourite, but I suspect mandula tried that first and it failed.
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mandula

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #19 on: 08 October 2017, 20:43:28 »

This is how I finally did it  ::)

Tried to use force to get it off, but finally I was defeated and needed to use some brains (or something like that).
I used angle grinder and small blade to cut it from the ball joint's base, just enough that I could then break that base by hammering where tie rod end is attached. It was really easy job done like that, but only works if you are planning to replace that central rod  8)


Thank you. You angle grind the end of the tie rod around the ball joint, then hammer it until the ball is released. This still leaves the pin stuck in the taper of the arm from the steering box. You do not say how you remove the pin from the arm, though I imagine you could easily use a lever and screw splitter for this.

Oh yes, I forgot to add that now you can use normal tools to get that pin out, because now there is room to do that.
Tool like this for example

Edit. Yes, I tried everything. But I had no helpers available and car on jacks = limited access. So angle grinder was my last plan. But I think it was best option for that situation and I think if you are going to replace that rod anyway, it does not matter how you do it.
« Last Edit: 08 October 2017, 20:52:02 by mandula »
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Stige

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #20 on: 08 October 2017, 20:53:46 »

You're making this out to be much harder than it is.


Use Plan A, but get your son to do the hitting. It really isn't difficult. You do know that you're striking the socket, and NOT trying to knock the pin out?


A gas torch won't apply enough heat to anything useful. Cutting it apart is just butchery, and takes longer than breaking the balljoint with two hammers.
I am placing the sledge hammer behind the tapered hole in the drop arm while son Ben bashes from the other side, so that the tapered hole in the arm deforms and releases the pin, which drops out, right? I have done it before, in fact it's the forum recommended method for the idler arm. Plan A is my favourite, but I suspect mandula tried that first and it failed.

AAAAH Now I understand what he means. Smash the hole from both sides with a hammer, or hold one hammer on the other side. Used that before, kinda hard to do if you are working on ground but easy on a lift.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #21 on: 08 October 2017, 21:11:39 »

You're making this out to be much harder than it is.


Use Plan A, but get your son to do the hitting. It really isn't difficult. You do know that you're striking the socket, and NOT trying to knock the pin out?


A gas torch won't apply enough heat to anything useful. Cutting it apart is just butchery, and takes longer than breaking the balljoint with two hammers.
I am placing the sledge hammer behind the tapered hole in the drop arm while son Ben bashes from the other side, so that the tapered hole in the arm deforms and releases the pin, which drops out, right? I have done it before, in fact it's the forum recommended method for the idler arm. Plan A is my favourite, but I suspect mandula tried that first and it failed.

AAAAH Now I understand what he means. Smash the hole from both sides with a hammer, or hold one hammer on the other side. Used that before, kinda hard to do if you are working on ground but easy on a lift.


I do all of my work in the street. And I've not used any other method for years, including changing suspension arms on 40 year old cars that had never been apart before. The only reason not to use this method is if the components are made of aluminium.
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Bigron

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #22 on: 08 October 2017, 21:16:39 »

If it helps, look at it this way: the joint is slightly tapered, but holds firmly, so it won't let go easily, especially after it has been in service for a while, so you either prise it out with forked tools, or use the two-hammer method.
The latter means that you put the heaviest hammer that you have room for BEHIND the joint, to act as an immovable object and use the second hammer to bash it F hard to cause the socket to deform and squeeze the pin out - like squeezing spots: not that any of us here ever do that!  :-[

Ron.
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Stige

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #23 on: 08 October 2017, 21:17:47 »

You're making this out to be much harder than it is.


Use Plan A, but get your son to do the hitting. It really isn't difficult. You do know that you're striking the socket, and NOT trying to knock the pin out?


A gas torch won't apply enough heat to anything useful. Cutting it apart is just butchery, and takes longer than breaking the balljoint with two hammers.
I am placing the sledge hammer behind the tapered hole in the drop arm while son Ben bashes from the other side, so that the tapered hole in the arm deforms and releases the pin, which drops out, right? I have done it before, in fact it's the forum recommended method for the idler arm. Plan A is my favourite, but I suspect mandula tried that first and it failed.

AAAAH Now I understand what he means. Smash the hole from both sides with a hammer, or hold one hammer on the other side. Used that before, kinda hard to do if you are working on ground but easy on a lift.


I do all of my work in the street. And I've not used any other method for years, including changing suspension arms on 40 year old cars that had never been apart before. The only reason not to use this method is if the components are made of aluminium.

Can you really get enough force on it alone? Or you have an extra set of hands in your garage waiting all the time?  ;D

I assume you use two of these or something similar? Ofcourse with flat heads, not round...
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #24 on: 08 October 2017, 21:35:52 »


Can you really get enough force on it alone? Or you have an extra set of hands in your garage waiting all the time?  ;D

I assume you use two of these or something similar? Ofcourse with flat heads, not round...



No garage, drive or any sort off-road parking. Car gets jacked up in the street, and my tools are in the cellar down a flight of steps.


Yes, that sort of club hammer. Mine's about 2kg, which is usually enough.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #25 on: 08 October 2017, 21:39:19 »

Agreed, Nick; 4lb flat-faced club hammer static behind the joint, and maybe 2lb hammer striking it with very sharp blows to shock the bugger out!
Repeat as necessary.....

Ron.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #26 on: 08 October 2017, 21:39:58 »

This is how I finally did it  ::)

Tried to use force to get it off, but finally I was defeated and needed to use some brains (or something like that).
I used angle grinder and small blade to cut it from the ball joint's base, just enough that I could then break that base by hammering where tie rod end is attached. It was really easy job done like that, but only works if you are planning to replace that central rod  8)


Thank you. You angle grind the end of the tie rod around the ball joint, then hammer it until the ball is released. This still leaves the pin stuck in the taper of the arm from the steering box. You do not say how you remove the pin from the arm, though I imagine you could easily use a lever and screw splitter for this.

Oh yes, I forgot to add that now you can use normal tools to get that pin out, because now there is room to do that.
Tool like this for example

Edit. Yes, I tried everything. But I had no helpers available and car on jacks = limited access. So angle grinder was my last plan. But I think it was best option for that situation and I think if you are going to replace that rod anyway, it does not matter how you do it.
I have one of those tools, but I could not get it into the gap between the bits I wished to separate. Could be that as the joint is so loose the weight of the idler arm end closed it up.Here is my tool:
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #27 on: 08 October 2017, 21:51:43 »

This is how I finally did it  ::)

Tried to use force to get it off, but finally I was defeated and needed to use some brains (or something like that).
I used angle grinder and small blade to cut it from the ball joint's base, just enough that I could then break that base by hammering where tie rod end is attached. It was really easy job done like that, but only works if you are planning to replace that central rod  8)


Thank you. You angle grind the end of the tie rod around the ball joint, then hammer it until the ball is released. This still leaves the pin stuck in the taper of the arm from the steering box. You do not say how you remove the pin from the arm, though I imagine you could easily use a lever and screw splitter for this.

Oh yes, I forgot to add that now you can use normal tools to get that pin out, because now there is room to do that.
Tool like this for example

Edit. Yes, I tried everything. But I had no helpers available and car on jacks = limited access. So angle grinder was my last plan. But I think it was best option for that situation and I think if you are going to replace that rod anyway, it does not matter how you do it.
I have one of those tools, but I could not get it into the gap between the bits I wished to separate. Could be that as the joint is so loose the weight of the idler arm end closed it up.Here is my tool:


If you cannot hammer it off the usual way, it is a 5 minutes job to angle grind that ball joint base and hammer that off. Now you have all the access to arm with that pin inside it. Now you can hammer it off or use that tool.

Just imagine how easy job it would be if there were not that rod on your way limiting your working space  :P
« Last Edit: 08 October 2017, 21:55:58 by mandula »
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #28 on: 08 October 2017, 22:10:59 »

I have one of those tools, but I could not get it into the gap between the bits I wished to separate. Could be that as the joint is so loose the weight of the idler arm end closed it up.Here is my tool:





I've seen one of those cranked up so tight that it bent without releasing the joint. Two solid blows with a club hammer popped it apart. Mine is currently in a friend's garage, along with the one with a screw that pushes down on the pin and a couple of the fork types. He was understandably anxious about beating on the aluminium uprights of his Porsche without trying the 'proper' tools first.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #29 on: 09 October 2017, 13:45:02 »

After 4 clouts the pin meekly dropped out. Magic! I thank you for your wisdom, Nick, and your confident advice.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #30 on: 09 October 2017, 17:53:55 »

Excellent. The hammer trick usually works for me :y
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #31 on: 09 October 2017, 18:09:16 »

I removed the centre tie rod with the idler arm attached. Easy to remove on the bench later, I thought. Tonight I did remove it, but only after a struggle. Nick was right saying I should let my son wield the hammer.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #32 on: 10 October 2017, 07:51:02 »

What's the torque for the idler arm rubber compressing nut?
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #33 on: 10 October 2017, 22:47:05 »

What's the torque for the idler arm rubber compressing nut?
Reading the forum guide I have presumed 60 Nm. Took car for a test drive but EML light came on, codes 16 & 19, so I went straight home to await arrival of new crank sensor.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #34 on: 11 October 2017, 00:57:15 »

I removed the centre tie rod with the idler arm attached. Easy to remove on the bench later, I thought. Tonight I did remove it, but only after a struggle. Nick was right saying I should let my son wield the hammer.

I'm struggling with the same. I've got the track rods off the centre tie rod, and got the idler unbolted from the chassis rail. No matter how hard I belt the taper joint (with two hammers) it won't shift (I'm aware there is a knack to it, and I obviously haven't got that knack). It would be much easier if I could get it all off the car and in a vice. But...

How did you detach the centre tie bar from the steering box arm? Or did you remove the arm from the steering box?
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #35 on: 11 October 2017, 09:30:01 »

I removed the centre tie rod with the idler arm attached. Easy to remove on the bench later, I thought. Tonight I did remove it, but only after a struggle. Nick was right saying I should let my son wield the hammer.

I'm struggling with the same. I've got the track rods off the centre tie rod, and got the idler unbolted from the chassis rail. No matter how hard I belt the taper joint (with two hammers) it won't shift (I'm aware there is a knack to it, and I obviously haven't got that knack). It would be much easier if I could get it all off the car and in a vice. But...

How did you detach the centre tie bar from the steering box arm? Or did you remove the arm from the steering box?
I did not remove the arm from the steering box. I had 3 plans to remove the arm, as this thread relates. Nick W repeated that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, use 2 hammers, he said.

He was right, but you want the right hammers, and you must hit it hard. My sledge hammer was too big, so I used smaller lump hammers. I lay on the floor under the car holding the bigger hammer behind the arm taper, while my son hit the other side of the taper with all his might. On the 4th thump the pin dropped out.
I had of course umdone the nut, but left it on the end of the thread where it was free to unscrew, to protect the thread in case son missed. I also marked his target with white paint.

I had similar trouble with the idler arm, so I detached the holder from the chassis. Having removed the centre track rod from the car I thought it would be trivial to remove the idler arm from the centre rod. It was not. None of my extracters would go in the narrow gap so they were no help. 2 hammers did not seem to work for me on this joint. Eventually, using the sledge hammer head as the anvil and hitting  the taper with the heavier hammer, it popped out.

My conclusion - I must buy some heavier hammers - I see Screwfix do a 4lb hammer for 10 - and I must hit the taper hard. My son is a burly 40 year old, I am a 10 stone weakling. This old man needs all the help and tricks he can get.

I wonder whether the tool mandula depicted would have helped. The prongs on all my extractors were too fat to insert between the arms. Obviously it needs strength, but I reckon a puller could be designed with the right prongs for this job. I shall seek one.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #36 on: 11 October 2017, 09:50:13 »

I did not remove the arm from the steering box. I had 3 plans to remove the arm, as this thread relates. Nick W repeated that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, use 2 hammers, he said.

He was right, but you want the right hammers, and you must hit it hard. My sledge hammer was too big, so I used smaller lump hammers. I lay on the floor under the car holding the bigger hammer behind the arm taper, while my son hit the other side of the taper with all his might. On the 4th thump the pin dropped out.
I had of course umdone the nut, but left it on the end of the thread where it was free to unscrew, to protect the thread in case son missed. I also marked his target with white paint.

I had similar trouble with the idler arm, so I detached the holder from the chassis. Having removed the centre track rod from the car I thought it would be trivial to remove the idler arm from the centre rod. It was not. None of my extracters would go in the narrow gap so they were no help. 2 hammers did not seem to work for me on this joint. Eventually, using the sledge hammer head as the anvil and hitting  the taper with the heavier hammer, it popped out.

My conclusion - I must buy some heavier hammers - I see Screwfix do a 4lb hammer for 10 - and I must hit the taper hard. My son is a burly 40 year old, I am a 10 stone weakling. This old man needs all the help and tricks he can get.

I wonder whether the tool mandula depicted would have helped. The prongs on all my extractors were too fat to insert between the arms. Obviously it needs strength, but I reckon a puller could be designed with the right prongs for this job. I shall seek one.

I think I'm being thick. Are you saying that the two hammer approach worked on the PAS steering box end of the centre tie bar in situe? And then you took the centre tie bar + steering idler off as one piece and separated them on the bench?

When I did this on the Carlton I couldn't get the centre tie bar to separate from the PAS steering arm either, and I ended up having to remove the PAS box, centre bar and idler as one piece from the car. Then Stu Granger turned up and belted the b'jesus out of both till they finally let go. In that instance I was replacing the centre tie bar. This time I'm just trying to replace the idler so would prefer not to have to dick about with the PAS box.

I am using a selection of 2lb and 4lb hammers. And I agree about the tools. I'm contemplating taking an angle grinder to one of my ball joint separator tools to widen the forks so that they go over the ball joint ends.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #37 on: 11 October 2017, 09:50:49 »

Googling 'ball joint separator'  I don't see the Pittsburgh device mandula suggested, but many others that might do the job. What I seek is a tool with wide slim prongs. Has anyone found one?
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #38 on: 11 October 2017, 10:06:33 »

I did not remove the arm from the steering box. I had 3 plans to remove the arm, as this thread relates. Nick W repeated that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, use 2 hammers, he said.

He was right, but you want the right hammers, and you must hit it hard. My sledge hammer was too big, so I used smaller lump hammers. I lay on the floor under the car holding the bigger hammer behind the arm taper, while my son hit the other side of the taper with all his might. On the 4th thump the pin dropped out.
I had of course umdone the nut, but left it on the end of the thread where it was free to unscrew, to protect the thread in case son missed. I also marked his target with white paint.

I had similar trouble with the idler arm, so I detached the holder from the chassis. Having removed the centre track rod from the car I thought it would be trivial to remove the idler arm from the centre rod. It was not. None of my extracters would go in the narrow gap so they were no help. 2 hammers did not seem to work for me on this joint. Eventually, using the sledge hammer head as the anvil and hitting  the taper with the heavier hammer, it popped out.

My conclusion - I must buy some heavier hammers - I see Screwfix do a 4lb hammer for 10 - and I must hit the taper hard. My son is a burly 40 year old, I am a 10 stone weakling. This old man needs all the help and tricks he can get.

I wonder whether the tool mandula depicted would have helped. The prongs on all my extractors were too fat to insert between the arms. Obviously it needs strength, but I reckon a puller could be designed with the right prongs for this job. I shall seek one.

I think I'm being thick. Are you saying that the two hammer approach worked on the PAS steering box end of the centre tie bar in situe? And then you took the centre tie bar + steering idler off as one piece and separated them on the bench?

When I did this on the Carlton I couldn't get the centre tie bar to separate from the PAS steering arm either, and I ended up having to remove the PAS box, centre bar and idler as one piece from the car. Then Stu Granger turned up and belted the b'jesus out of both till they finally let go. In that instance I was replacing the centre tie bar. This time I'm just trying to replace the idler so would prefer not to have to dick about with the PAS box.

I am using a selection of 2lb and 4lb hammers. And I agree about the tools. I'm contemplating taking an angle grinder to one of my ball joint separator tools to widen the forks so that they go over the ball joint ends.
Yes, I separated central track rod from steering arm in situ. With the steering on full left lock I could get a 2lb hammer behind the taper and my son could bash the other side with his hammer.
Nick's 2 hammer approach requires courage and strength.
I also considered grinding down the fingers of an extractor to insert between the arms, but in the end never needed to. mandula's butchery should work, and once done any extractor would remove the pin for you.
The way Nick talks, once you have the courage to hit it really hard, the pin should drop out. You are striving to deform the forged taper so that the pin is released, which takes a big thump.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #39 on: 11 October 2017, 14:16:22 »

Yes, I separated central track rod from steering arm in situ. With the steering on full left lock I could get a 2lb hammer behind the taper and my son could bash the other side with his hammer.
Nick's 2 hammer approach requires courage and strength.
I also considered grinding down the fingers of an extractor to insert between the arms, but in the end never needed to. mandula's butchery should work, and once done any extractor would remove the pin for you.
The way Nick talks, once you have the courage to hit it really hard, the pin should drop out. You are striving to deform the forged taper so that the pin is released, which takes a big thump.

Ah right. I was hoping to avoid faffing with the PAS steering arm. And Mandula's butchery would require replacing the central track rod which again I don't really want to do. I'm gonna pop into my local toolshop in Yeovil tomorrow and see if they've got anything that can be modified for the task. Something like this :



Even if it won't pull the taper apart on it's own, loading it up with a squillion N of force and then belting the taper with two big hammers has got to be better than not having it.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #40 on: 11 October 2017, 14:18:54 »

Googling 'ball joint separator'  I don't see the Pittsburgh device mandula suggested, but many others that might do the job. What I seek is a tool with wide slim prongs. Has anyone found one?

Google Pittman Arm splitter. Pittman not Pittsburgh.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #41 on: 11 October 2017, 21:52:52 »

Googling 'ball joint separator'  I don't see the Pittsburgh device mandula suggested, but many others that might do the job. What I seek is a tool with wide slim prongs. Has anyone found one?

Google Pittman Arm splitter. Pittman not Pittsburgh.
I googled Pitman arm splitter, all I found was sets of fork splitters. I have looked all over the web, but cannot find a splitter with slim forks.
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Nick W

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #42 on: 11 October 2017, 22:10:20 »


I think I'm being thick. Are you saying that the two hammer approach worked on the PAS steering box end of the centre tie bar in situe? And then you took the centre tie bar + steering idler off as one piece and separated them on the bench?

When I did this on the Carlton I couldn't get the centre tie bar to separate from the PAS steering arm either, and I ended up having to remove the PAS box, centre bar and idler as one piece from the car. Then Stu Granger turned up and belted the b'jesus out of both till they finally let go. In that instance I was replacing the centre tie bar. This time I'm just trying to replace the idler so would prefer not to have to dick about with the PAS box.

I am using a selection of 2lb and 4lb hammers. And I agree about the tools. I'm contemplating taking an angle grinder to one of my ball joint separator tools to widen the forks so that they go over the ball joint ends.


Loosely reassemble the rest of the balljoints in the linkage, and try the hammers again. Have a couple of extra shredded wheat for breakfast. A short sharp shock is still a more efficient and effective method to release tapers than trying to push them apart.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #43 on: 11 October 2017, 22:15:53 »

Going back to the days when I was fit enough to work under a car, I found that too much brute force was counter-productive. The reason for my saying that is because if you put huge pressure on the casting, apart from the risk of shattering it, you make it grip the pin even harder.
Relate it to trying to unscrew a filter on a camera; the harder you squeeze, the tighter you make the filter grip the lens, whereas pressing down on the outer front edge of the filter with the flat of your hand and twisting your palm soon has it off.
Back to the ball joint: put your large hammer behind it, whack the opposite side of it with short, very sharp blows, repeatedly.
True, it still has a clamping effect, but the rapid blows impart an impelling force on the pin yet giving the casting a chance to bounce back out of the way, hence releasing the pin - and less likely to shatter the casting.

Ron.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #44 on: 11 October 2017, 22:17:10 »

Wow Nick, you just beat me to it - seems we are saying much the same thing.  :y

Ron.
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