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Author Topic: Removing drop arm from steering box  (Read 483 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #30 on: 09 October 2017, 17:53:55 »

Excellent. The hammer trick usually works for me :y
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #31 on: 09 October 2017, 18:09:16 »

I removed the centre tie rod with the idler arm attached. Easy to remove on the bench later, I thought. Tonight I did remove it, but only after a struggle. Nick was right saying I should let my son wield the hammer.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #32 on: 10 October 2017, 07:51:02 »

What's the torque for the idler arm rubber compressing nut?
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #33 on: 10 October 2017, 22:47:05 »

What's the torque for the idler arm rubber compressing nut?
Reading the forum guide I have presumed 60 Nm. Took car for a test drive but EML light came on, codes 16 & 19, so I went straight home to await arrival of new crank sensor.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #34 on: 11 October 2017, 00:57:15 »

I removed the centre tie rod with the idler arm attached. Easy to remove on the bench later, I thought. Tonight I did remove it, but only after a struggle. Nick was right saying I should let my son wield the hammer.

I'm struggling with the same. I've got the track rods off the centre tie rod, and got the idler unbolted from the chassis rail. No matter how hard I belt the taper joint (with two hammers) it won't shift (I'm aware there is a knack to it, and I obviously haven't got that knack). It would be much easier if I could get it all off the car and in a vice. But...

How did you detach the centre tie bar from the steering box arm? Or did you remove the arm from the steering box?
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #35 on: 11 October 2017, 09:30:01 »

I removed the centre tie rod with the idler arm attached. Easy to remove on the bench later, I thought. Tonight I did remove it, but only after a struggle. Nick was right saying I should let my son wield the hammer.

I'm struggling with the same. I've got the track rods off the centre tie rod, and got the idler unbolted from the chassis rail. No matter how hard I belt the taper joint (with two hammers) it won't shift (I'm aware there is a knack to it, and I obviously haven't got that knack). It would be much easier if I could get it all off the car and in a vice. But...

How did you detach the centre tie bar from the steering box arm? Or did you remove the arm from the steering box?
I did not remove the arm from the steering box. I had 3 plans to remove the arm, as this thread relates. Nick W repeated that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, use 2 hammers, he said.

He was right, but you want the right hammers, and you must hit it hard. My sledge hammer was too big, so I used smaller lump hammers. I lay on the floor under the car holding the bigger hammer behind the arm taper, while my son hit the other side of the taper with all his might. On the 4th thump the pin dropped out.
I had of course umdone the nut, but left it on the end of the thread where it was free to unscrew, to protect the thread in case son missed. I also marked his target with white paint.

I had similar trouble with the idler arm, so I detached the holder from the chassis. Having removed the centre track rod from the car I thought it would be trivial to remove the idler arm from the centre rod. It was not. None of my extracters would go in the narrow gap so they were no help. 2 hammers did not seem to work for me on this joint. Eventually, using the sledge hammer head as the anvil and hitting  the taper with the heavier hammer, it popped out.

My conclusion - I must buy some heavier hammers - I see Screwfix do a 4lb hammer for 10 - and I must hit the taper hard. My son is a burly 40 year old, I am a 10 stone weakling. This old man needs all the help and tricks he can get.

I wonder whether the tool mandula depicted would have helped. The prongs on all my extractors were too fat to insert between the arms. Obviously it needs strength, but I reckon a puller could be designed with the right prongs for this job. I shall seek one.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #36 on: 11 October 2017, 09:50:13 »

I did not remove the arm from the steering box. I had 3 plans to remove the arm, as this thread relates. Nick W repeated that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, use 2 hammers, he said.

He was right, but you want the right hammers, and you must hit it hard. My sledge hammer was too big, so I used smaller lump hammers. I lay on the floor under the car holding the bigger hammer behind the arm taper, while my son hit the other side of the taper with all his might. On the 4th thump the pin dropped out.
I had of course umdone the nut, but left it on the end of the thread where it was free to unscrew, to protect the thread in case son missed. I also marked his target with white paint.

I had similar trouble with the idler arm, so I detached the holder from the chassis. Having removed the centre track rod from the car I thought it would be trivial to remove the idler arm from the centre rod. It was not. None of my extracters would go in the narrow gap so they were no help. 2 hammers did not seem to work for me on this joint. Eventually, using the sledge hammer head as the anvil and hitting  the taper with the heavier hammer, it popped out.

My conclusion - I must buy some heavier hammers - I see Screwfix do a 4lb hammer for 10 - and I must hit the taper hard. My son is a burly 40 year old, I am a 10 stone weakling. This old man needs all the help and tricks he can get.

I wonder whether the tool mandula depicted would have helped. The prongs on all my extractors were too fat to insert between the arms. Obviously it needs strength, but I reckon a puller could be designed with the right prongs for this job. I shall seek one.

I think I'm being thick. Are you saying that the two hammer approach worked on the PAS steering box end of the centre tie bar in situe? And then you took the centre tie bar + steering idler off as one piece and separated them on the bench?

When I did this on the Carlton I couldn't get the centre tie bar to separate from the PAS steering arm either, and I ended up having to remove the PAS box, centre bar and idler as one piece from the car. Then Stu Granger turned up and belted the b'jesus out of both till they finally let go. In that instance I was replacing the centre tie bar. This time I'm just trying to replace the idler so would prefer not to have to dick about with the PAS box.

I am using a selection of 2lb and 4lb hammers. And I agree about the tools. I'm contemplating taking an angle grinder to one of my ball joint separator tools to widen the forks so that they go over the ball joint ends.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #37 on: 11 October 2017, 09:50:49 »

Googling 'ball joint separator'  I don't see the Pittsburgh device mandula suggested, but many others that might do the job. What I seek is a tool with wide slim prongs. Has anyone found one?
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #38 on: 11 October 2017, 10:06:33 »

I did not remove the arm from the steering box. I had 3 plans to remove the arm, as this thread relates. Nick W repeated that I was making a mountain out of a molehill, use 2 hammers, he said.

He was right, but you want the right hammers, and you must hit it hard. My sledge hammer was too big, so I used smaller lump hammers. I lay on the floor under the car holding the bigger hammer behind the arm taper, while my son hit the other side of the taper with all his might. On the 4th thump the pin dropped out.
I had of course umdone the nut, but left it on the end of the thread where it was free to unscrew, to protect the thread in case son missed. I also marked his target with white paint.

I had similar trouble with the idler arm, so I detached the holder from the chassis. Having removed the centre track rod from the car I thought it would be trivial to remove the idler arm from the centre rod. It was not. None of my extracters would go in the narrow gap so they were no help. 2 hammers did not seem to work for me on this joint. Eventually, using the sledge hammer head as the anvil and hitting  the taper with the heavier hammer, it popped out.

My conclusion - I must buy some heavier hammers - I see Screwfix do a 4lb hammer for 10 - and I must hit the taper hard. My son is a burly 40 year old, I am a 10 stone weakling. This old man needs all the help and tricks he can get.

I wonder whether the tool mandula depicted would have helped. The prongs on all my extractors were too fat to insert between the arms. Obviously it needs strength, but I reckon a puller could be designed with the right prongs for this job. I shall seek one.

I think I'm being thick. Are you saying that the two hammer approach worked on the PAS steering box end of the centre tie bar in situe? And then you took the centre tie bar + steering idler off as one piece and separated them on the bench?

When I did this on the Carlton I couldn't get the centre tie bar to separate from the PAS steering arm either, and I ended up having to remove the PAS box, centre bar and idler as one piece from the car. Then Stu Granger turned up and belted the b'jesus out of both till they finally let go. In that instance I was replacing the centre tie bar. This time I'm just trying to replace the idler so would prefer not to have to dick about with the PAS box.

I am using a selection of 2lb and 4lb hammers. And I agree about the tools. I'm contemplating taking an angle grinder to one of my ball joint separator tools to widen the forks so that they go over the ball joint ends.
Yes, I separated central track rod from steering arm in situ. With the steering on full left lock I could get a 2lb hammer behind the taper and my son could bash the other side with his hammer.
Nick's 2 hammer approach requires courage and strength.
I also considered grinding down the fingers of an extractor to insert between the arms, but in the end never needed to. mandula's butchery should work, and once done any extractor would remove the pin for you.
The way Nick talks, once you have the courage to hit it really hard, the pin should drop out. You are striving to deform the forged taper so that the pin is released, which takes a big thump.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #39 on: 11 October 2017, 14:16:22 »

Yes, I separated central track rod from steering arm in situ. With the steering on full left lock I could get a 2lb hammer behind the taper and my son could bash the other side with his hammer.
Nick's 2 hammer approach requires courage and strength.
I also considered grinding down the fingers of an extractor to insert between the arms, but in the end never needed to. mandula's butchery should work, and once done any extractor would remove the pin for you.
The way Nick talks, once you have the courage to hit it really hard, the pin should drop out. You are striving to deform the forged taper so that the pin is released, which takes a big thump.

Ah right. I was hoping to avoid faffing with the PAS steering arm. And Mandula's butchery would require replacing the central track rod which again I don't really want to do. I'm gonna pop into my local toolshop in Yeovil tomorrow and see if they've got anything that can be modified for the task. Something like this :



Even if it won't pull the taper apart on it's own, loading it up with a squillion N of force and then belting the taper with two big hammers has got to be better than not having it.
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LC0112G

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #40 on: 11 October 2017, 14:18:54 »

Googling 'ball joint separator'  I don't see the Pittsburgh device mandula suggested, but many others that might do the job. What I seek is a tool with wide slim prongs. Has anyone found one?

Google Pittman Arm splitter. Pittman not Pittsburgh.
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terry paget

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #41 on: 11 October 2017, 21:52:52 »

Googling 'ball joint separator'  I don't see the Pittsburgh device mandula suggested, but many others that might do the job. What I seek is a tool with wide slim prongs. Has anyone found one?

Google Pittman Arm splitter. Pittman not Pittsburgh.
I googled Pitman arm splitter, all I found was sets of fork splitters. I have looked all over the web, but cannot find a splitter with slim forks.
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Nick W

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #42 on: 11 October 2017, 22:10:20 »


I think I'm being thick. Are you saying that the two hammer approach worked on the PAS steering box end of the centre tie bar in situe? And then you took the centre tie bar + steering idler off as one piece and separated them on the bench?

When I did this on the Carlton I couldn't get the centre tie bar to separate from the PAS steering arm either, and I ended up having to remove the PAS box, centre bar and idler as one piece from the car. Then Stu Granger turned up and belted the b'jesus out of both till they finally let go. In that instance I was replacing the centre tie bar. This time I'm just trying to replace the idler so would prefer not to have to dick about with the PAS box.

I am using a selection of 2lb and 4lb hammers. And I agree about the tools. I'm contemplating taking an angle grinder to one of my ball joint separator tools to widen the forks so that they go over the ball joint ends.


Loosely reassemble the rest of the balljoints in the linkage, and try the hammers again. Have a couple of extra shredded wheat for breakfast. A short sharp shock is still a more efficient and effective method to release tapers than trying to push them apart.
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Bigron

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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #43 on: 11 October 2017, 22:15:53 »

Going back to the days when I was fit enough to work under a car, I found that too much brute force was counter-productive. The reason for my saying that is because if you put huge pressure on the casting, apart from the risk of shattering it, you make it grip the pin even harder.
Relate it to trying to unscrew a filter on a camera; the harder you squeeze, the tighter you make the filter grip the lens, whereas pressing down on the outer front edge of the filter with the flat of your hand and twisting your palm soon has it off.
Back to the ball joint: put your large hammer behind it, whack the opposite side of it with short, very sharp blows, repeatedly.
True, it still has a clamping effect, but the rapid blows impart an impelling force on the pin yet giving the casting a chance to bounce back out of the way, hence releasing the pin - and less likely to shatter the casting.

Ron.
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Re: Removing drop arm from steering box
« Reply #44 on: 11 October 2017, 22:17:10 »

Wow Nick, you just beat me to it - seems we are saying much the same thing.  :y

Ron.
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