Topic: Stutters like a pig, at 4500 rpm (Read 5631 times)

Tony · « **on:** 15 September 2006, 08:54:32 »

Hi All

I am new here, i hope that this is in the correct section.

Ok i have a lefthand drive German Omega B estate 2.0L 16v Ecotec, 1995, 85,000 miles.
Driving the other night, everything was normal, then the dash light came on, the picture of an engine with a lightning strike in the middle. I guess this is the one that tells me to go to Opel and let them plug my car into there computer to see what is wrong with it, at a very high cost no doubt.

Anyway with this light on all seems fine, UNTIL i hit 4500 revs and then it stutters like a pig. It has done this in 1st 2nd and 3rd gears (i have not tested 4th and 5th as i was almost home) once it stutters i change gear and it drives as normal, like a dream. All though it does seem a bit guttless at the lower end, very flat spotty from pull off, but once going it is ok I also noticed that the engine temp was a little higher that normal it was reading 95° instead 0f 90°, i don't know if that is relevant or just coincidence.

Thanks for your help on this.

Tony

TheBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 September 2006, 09:11:55 »

I'm guessing cam sensor, but being a 1995 model, do a paperclip test (free way of reading the fault codes). Check the FAQ section for how to do, and post results back (basically shorting to pins with paperclip and counting the flashes on the dash)

The Barge Captain · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 September 2006, 09:42:41 »

I had a similar sounding fault on my old 2.0 - turned out to be the crank sensor. There are 2 or 3 different types so if you can remove it you should be able to get the GM part number off of it

Tony · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 September 2006, 10:01:24 »

Hi all

Ok just went out for a drive,
The car is running hotter that usual it goes up to about 98° then drops to 95° and so on, it never used to get past 90° or so maybe just coincidence???
I have just tried the paperclip test, shorting out pins 4 and 6 but i get no reaction, the light just stays on, no flashing what so ever, i have tried with engine running, and not running.
Any ideas on where i go from here?

Thanks again for your time.

Tony

nixoro · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 September 2006, 10:13:20 »

Quote

Hi all

Ok just went out for a drive,
The car is running hotter that usual it goes up to about 98° then drops to 95° and so on, it never used to get past 90° or so maybe just coincidence???
I have just tried the paperclip test, shorting out pins 4 and 6 but i get no reaction, the light just stays on, no flashing what so ever, i have tried with engine running, and not running.
Any ideas on where i go from here?

Thanks again for your time.

Tony

Try shorting pins 5 and 6

Is it the 16 pin test plug you have in the fuse compartment if the same as mine you dont need the engine running you just need the key turned so the dash lights appear.

To help confirm the codes here is a website which explains the method and what the codes mean.

http://www.topbuzz.co.uk/info/fault_codes/fault_codes.htm

Tony · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 September 2006, 10:46:30 »

Hi

It is the 16 pin plug, but the first couple of hole in it look empty. i will try shorting pins 5 & 6 and see what that gives.

Thanks

Tony

Tony · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 September 2006, 11:09:32 »

Hi

Ok this is what i got with just the ignition switched on

Flash = *
pause = --

*--**--*--**--*--**--*********--*--*********

so i got 9 flashes sequence then a gap the one flash then a gap the 9 flashes.
I think that i read it all correctly

I have the list of fault codes here in front of me, downloaded from topbuzz, but the list starts at 12 and goes on to 98, so i am wondering how to translate the flashes i got in regards to the list i got.
If it is *--********* then i guess that it is fault code 19 which is

"Incorrect Revs Per Minute (RPM) signal (cranksharft sensor) Incorrect Signal, Check Sensor"

So if any of you can pick the bones out that info, GREAT

Thanks for your time

Tony

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 September 2006, 11:12:18 »

It's pointing to a failed crank sensor I reckon

Not a hard job to do, especially on a 2.0.

nixoro · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 September 2006, 11:20:43 »

Quote

It's pointing to a failed crank sensor I reckon

Not a hard job to do, especially on a 2.0.

Providing it not got AC only it can get fiddly

Tony · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 September 2006, 11:22:02 »

Good that is what i like to hear.

Where would i find that sensor, as i can't see anything about it in the Haynes manual?

Is it worth checking the connections of it first?

Tony

nixoro · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 September 2006, 11:22:47 »

Quote

Hi

Ok this is what i got with just the ignition switched on

Flash = *
pause = --

*--**--*--**--*--**--*********--*--*********

so i got 9 flashes sequence then a gap the one flash then a gap the 9 flashes.
I think that i read it all correctly

I have the list of fault codes here in front of me, downloaded from topbuzz, but the list starts at 12 and goes on to 98, so i am wondering how to translate the flashes i got in regards to the list i got.
If it is *--********* then i guess that it is fault code 19 which is

"Incorrect Revs Per Minute (RPM) signal (cranksharft sensor) Incorrect Signal, Check Sensor"

So if any of you can pick the bones out that info, GREAT

Thanks for your time

Tony

Just re read your first post and judging by the year of the car I would say the code is right, are you sure its a 16pin socket and not 10 only I always thought the 16pin used the p codes. 10 pin used normal codes for the Simtec 56.0 or 56.1.

Tony · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 September 2006, 11:27:23 »

Hi

No it certaintly did not start with ten flashes, it started with 1 flash the pause the 2 flashes, it did that sequence 3 times before flashing the 9 times.

Engine was not running.

Tony

nixoro · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:05:52 »

Quote

Hi

No it certaintly did not start with ten flashes, it started with 1 flash the pause the 2 flashes, it did that sequence 3 times before flashing the 9 times.

Engine was not running.

Tony

Go with the crank sensor code, to me it sounds right.

Good luck with fixing does your car have Airconditioning?

The crank cable runs across the top from the left where it connects to the right and down then sensor plugs in behind the AC compressor (if applicable) and PAS pump.

STMO123 · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:09:37 »

Correct me if I'm wrong people, but, with the engine not running, your'e gonna get the crankshaft fault code anyway. Try again with the engine running.

nixoro · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:13:34 »

Quote

Correct me if I'm wrong people, but, with the engine not running, your'e gonna get the crankshaft fault code anyway. Try again with the engine running.

Fair point never thought of that one.

Tony do you get the same codes come up with the engine running at all.

STM0123 I see what you mean but with some systems like the one on mine I dont get the crank sensor code flash up with the engine off and the test doesn't work with the engine running.

STMO123 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:18:24 »

Well, its a 4 pot Roy, so you're probably the wiser on this one

TheBoy · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:22:16 »

With no engine running, you should get a 'no rpm signal' (31 iirc), so a 19 'incorrect rpm signal' does point to a fault.

Rereading post, its unclear if you are getting a 19 or a 91?

STMO123 · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:25:36 »

It's gonna be the crankshaft sensor, can feel it in me wotsit

nixoro · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:27:12 »

Quote

With no engine running, you should get a 'no rpm signal' (31 iirc), so a 19 'incorrect rpm signal' does point to a fault.

Rereading post, its unclear if you are getting a 19 or a 91?

I must admit I am abit unsure with regards the coding if its code 91 it would be 91 Oxygen sensor heater Voltage high not sure what effects this will have on the rpm signal though.

nixoro · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:32:28 »

Quote

Well, its a 4 pot Roy, so you're probably the wiser on this one

Dont know about that one

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #20 on:** 15 September 2006, 12:33:36 »

Was that the full set of codes......it shoudl start by falshing 12 first three times and will finish with 12 agian three times......I suspect there are more codes stored.

Tony · « **Reply #21 on:** 15 September 2006, 15:49:03 »

Hi

With the engine running, i get no flashing at all, the light just stays on.
I will try it again though just to be sure.

If it helps at all, i went out this afternoon in it and the EML light was not on, and i could rev passed 4500 rpm, also the flat spotty pull was gone, the water tem did not go above 90°, it was like this for a 25 minute trip, i then turned the engine off, i came back ten minute laters and when i started the car the EML was back on and all the usual symptoms wre there. :-?

The car has A/C or Climate Control?, i have the center panel with the digital read out, a Auto and Off button, Temp + - buttons for both sides and fan speed buttons, then the usual demist and air circulation buttons.

Sorry i for gat to mention that the car is a CD version.

Tony

nixoro · « **Reply #22 on:** 15 September 2006, 15:58:10 »

Tony is there any chance you can redo the test again just to confirm the codes.

From the sounds of it you have climate control, one of the things mine is lacking

GaryB · « **Reply #23 on:** 15 September 2006, 19:05:56 »

It does sound like the crank sensor to me - I had similar symptoms on my old 2.0l a couple of years ago - confirmed by getting the code read. What should have been a very straightforward job was hampered a bit by the location of the sensor and the limited access. In the end, I removed the tensioner for the auxiliary belt to improve the access whic allowed me to replace it.

At the time I was also advised to check the tension on the timing belt, as a difference in the signal between the crank sensor and cam sensor can also flag the 'incorrect rpm signal'. I am sure that somebody else on here could confirm whether that is worth doing.

hth

GB

Tony · « **Reply #24 on:** 16 September 2006, 10:03:54 »

Hi All

Ok i just did the test again (engine not running, i get no flashes with engine running), this time i took a video of it, so i can watch it on the computer with more time. My wife and i both say that it is
*--**--*--**--*--**--*********--** so 92 Camshaft Sensor Incorrect signal.
|-----diag start-----| |--fault code---|

But once i have made the video smaller, if i post a link to it would you guys be able to check it for me.

The vid should be up sometime this afternoon.

Thanks

Tony

TheBoy · « **Reply #25 on:** 16 September 2006, 10:06:47 »

camshaft fits in with my early gut feeling, as posted earlier...

was that the only code?

TheBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** 16 September 2006, 10:07:25 »

cam sensor failure puts car in 'limp home' and hence rev limits to about 4k

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #27 on:** 16 September 2006, 14:42:53 »

Cam sensor....as the symptoms sudgest.

Tony · « **Reply #28 on:** 16 September 2006, 15:55:48 »

Hi All

So i have upload the video to Goole.

Video 1 is a 1 minute video with the engine running, as you can see there are no flashes with the engine running.

Video 2 is a 7 minute video with the engine not running, i left the camera going for so long, as i have no clue how long it takes to get the codes out.

If any of you guys could take a look at the video, and comfirm my findings, that it is Code 92, that would be great.

Thanks for your time on this matter.

Cheers

Tony

TheBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:05:19 »

Yup, a single 92...

TheBoy · « **Reply #30 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:06:38 »

Fault codes flash out a 12 (3 times), then each fault code (3 times) and then starts again with the 12s etc indiffinately (well until batt goes flat). 2.0 need engine off, 2.5/3.0 can be done with engine on or off.

Tony · « **Reply #31 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:12:29 »

Hi

Ok now we know that it is the camshaft Sensor, is it easy to change, and what sort of cost would i be looking at?

If it is easy to change with not much cursing under the breath, i don't mind having a go at it my self.

Thanks

Tony

TheBoy · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:13:57 »

Not sure how much of a job it is on the 4 cylinder engines, but I wouldn't have though too difficult. And there are plenty of 4 cylinder owners here willing to give advice...

TheBoy · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:16:12 »

£31 on tradeclub, £34 trade, or £38 retail (all + VAT) from your dealer...

Tony · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:18:58 »

Thanks for the info, it looks like i will visit my opel dealer on Monday to get it. Just as well i have holiday next week

Tony

Tony · « **Reply #35 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:23:35 »

Just out of interest, as the engine is a DOHC does that mean that there are 2 cam sensors?

Tony

TheBoy · « **Reply #36 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:51:12 »

Only 1...

TheBoy · « **Reply #37 on:** 16 September 2006, 16:54:28 »

I should clarify... ...It is needed to tell ecu which cylinder is on firing stroke (crank will rotate twice between a particular cylinder's firing stroke), so crank sensor on its own can't tell ecu where the engine is in its cylces. So when cam sensor fails, ecu goes to 'limp', turns off sequential injection and fires on firing stroke and intake stroke (which it does anyway), so it can still run. A low rev limit is implemented in limp to protect engine.

Tony · « **Reply #38 on:** 16 September 2006, 17:54:01 »

Thanks for all the info

Tony

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 September 2006, 19:55:00 »

Its easy....remove the spark plug cover, remove the cambelt cover.

Remove the bolt which is in-between the two cam sprockets and pull the sensor up and out from the end of the spark plug area.

Re-fit is reverse of removal

Tony · « **Reply #40 on:** 18 September 2006, 11:14:17 »

Shock Horror, i have just gone out and got the cam sensor

it was [ch8364]120.00 approx 80 quid.
And it is now pi55ing down, so i can't go and fit it

Tony

nixoro · « **Reply #41 on:** 18 September 2006, 11:57:22 »

Quote

Shock Horror, i have just gone out and got the cam sensor it was €120.00 approx 80 quid.
And it is now pi55ing down, so i can't go and fit it

Tony

Was it supplied with a new piece of loom as you may need to cut and solder the new end on, not unless it comes with crimps for crimping the wires together.

Pretty easy job to do imo.

HTH

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #42 on:** 18 September 2006, 12:23:37 »

Quote

Shock Horror, i have just gone out and got the cam sensor it was €120.00 approx 80 quid.
And it is now pi55ing down, so i can't go and fit it

Tony

HOW MUCH!

£38.35 retail in the UK + VAT so about 80 Euros.

Tony · « **Reply #43 on:** 18 September 2006, 13:11:10 »

Hi

Yes it does come come with a piece of loom (with crimps)

That was going to be my next question: why do i have to use the piece of loom? the new sensor i have has a 3 pin socket moulded into it, so i guess that i can just unplug the loom from the old one and plug it into the new one, unless the old one does not have this socket on the end of it, and the cable come directly out of the end of the sensor.

Well it has stopped raining now, so i will get my things together and do the job.

Tony

Tony · « **Reply #44 on:** 18 September 2006, 15:03:34 »

Hi Guys

Ok all done and dusted, it took about 3/4 hour, the only problem i had was the bolt that holds the sensor, was a star headed bolt, so i had to thumble about to find something that fits. But i found something in the end.

I did have to use the new loom, as the plug on the old one is slightly different from the new one.

The only thing that is wrong now, is that the one touch window operation has gone, but i think i saw a FAQ on that subject on this forum.

A big thanks to all that help me on this little problem.

Kind regards

Tony

nixoro · « **Reply #45 on:** 18 September 2006, 15:06:07 »

Well done Tony on the repair, with any luck the EML wont come back and from reading some where on hear the code should clear itself after 20 good starts.

johnny.dee · « **Reply #46 on:** 18 September 2006, 16:37:46 »

Disconnect battery for 30 seconds code fault in ecu will clear then reconnect battery. to return to one touch window button, open window, holding button down, wait 5 seconds and do the same for the up operation, repeating for all 4 windows and sun roof. Note, if at first try the window does not reset repeat the operation holding button in a bit longer. had to do mine Monday.

Tony · « **Reply #47 on:** 18 September 2006, 16:42:27 »

Yer i got the windows sorted, i followed the FAQ on here.

Tony

Del Boy · « **Reply #48 on:** 18 September 2006, 16:43:08 »

Nice 1 m8 well done

TheBoy · « **Reply #49 on:** 19 September 2006, 09:49:43 »

Glad its sorted

Gutted you get stuffed for 120 euros though

Tony · « **Reply #50 on:** 20 September 2006, 07:48:28 »

You & me both

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Author Topic: Stutters like a pig, at 4500 rpm (Read 5631 times)

STMO123

STMO123

STMO123