Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STEMO on 21 March 2019, 20:27:15
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Never mind all this brexit stuff, the Mueller report is expected in the next few days.
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Maybe he is Mueller? maybe he blew a main fuse?
Seriously though unusual for him to be absent especially at this critical point. Hope it isn't a health issue.
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The KGB has finally caught up with him, and now all his favourite undisclosed fantasies are coming true......
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Yes, saw Bobby three sticks' report is imminent but it is all based on supposition, where Mueller hasn't said anything where his security during the investigation being exceptionally good, so it is released when it is released. Republican in the Senate are working hard to stop it being placed in the public domain. Once it is finished this is only the end of the beginning as there are numerous other ongoing FBI investigations which are tasked with prosecutions. Over and above this there are various state investigations with the New York prosecutors being one to particularly watch as they are investigating the Trump mob finances. If Trump uses pardons for federal convictions (he can't do that for state ones) & where many of those heavily implicated are aged over 50, many are going to die in jail including Paul Manafort. In many states double jeopardy can be used so if pardoned at the federal level they can be tried and convicted for the same crimes at the state level. With this & the US tradition of long jail sentences many will die in jail. Life can be a bitch when you are caught up in the US wheels of justice. :y :y :y
I haven't been on here much for several reasons:
1. Got lots on work wise & being self-employed I get paid for what I do.
2. Having lots of fun on Twitter over Brexit & have now got almost 500 followers. Where I have strong views, for the first time ever I'm going on the Leave Means Leave London protest march on the 29th March. I think the size of the crowd will give an indication of how strong the opposition will be on the streets once May kills Brexit, over the next 3 weeks & sh*ts on 17.4m voters. I personally won't get involved in anything illegal but with the amount of electoral anger over EU Agent May's sellout I can't vouch for the others & we may well see the poll tax or French Yellow Jacket riots on steroids where people are not going to let May with the EU & her Remainiacs kill UK democracy without a fight. UK lorry drivers are talking about a go-slow during for the duration of any article 50 extension. Tory party members have now targeted 50 Remainer MPs for deselection.
On the health front where I've been getting chest pains & have a heart murmur (leaking heart valve) I've now had the results back from a CT scan which has shown slight calcification in two arteries but not enough to affect the blood flow and I have an echocardiogram in April which will hopefully reveal how bad the leaking valve is and whether I will just need 6 monthly checkups or heart surgery. It can be hereditary & my dad suffered the same with a heath murmur which for about 30 years it did not cause him any problems.
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Thanks for the updates on the three fronts especially last para. :y
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Apparently the Mueller report has just now been submitted to Trump'a Attorney General & the Department of Justice. Adam Schiff the newly appointed democrat as the Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence is well worth following as he is calling members of the Trump clan to appear before congress & is going to question them on the basis of what Mueller knows. The Republican Senate majority under leader McConnell are trying their best to stop the public release of the report, but personally I think they have more change in storing water in a cullendar than the press not getting their hands on many of the details.
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Stay safe on the march.Hope all goes well for you on the health front :y
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I like that Rod. Some one who is prepared to put their feet where there convictions are. Full marks to you! Have a good, and hopefully, successful march! :-* :-* :y
Keep well though. Your health is more important than anything ;)
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Unfortunately, EU Agent May last & this week cancelled our democracy in favour of a joint May/Brussels dictatorship which I & many others, especially the 17.4m leave voters she has just sh*t on, will not accept. There are going to be a whole range of civil disobedience measures from now onwards that started last night with the slow lorry / van driving on a few major roads, which has spread today to many major roads.
May is too stupid to remember the last PM who used Parliament to declared an ill advised war on the people with the poll tax and look how that ended for Margaret Thatcher's time in office. May's will end will be the same. She has also destroyed the electorates trust in the Tory party with our first chance in the May 2nd local elections to show by how much. I have never voted anything but Tory in these before but this time it will be along with many others anything but Tory. MPs are saying if she loses more than 1000 seats, she is toast, so we have a target now.
Mainland Europe is showing how much the Internet & social media is changing the political landscape with the rise of new parties. Many of these are anti-EU populist ones. A new Dutch anti-EU party have gone in their first election from nothing to the biggest party. It wouldn't surprise me if Nigel Farage's Brexit Party did the same. The vested-interests only incumbent parties of Labour/Conservative/LibDems have been shown up by Brexit for what they are. I expect the next few years to be a bumpy ride in UK politics but we will hopefully become a better country with a working democracy again.
Tory party members are also fighting back from the grass roots level with many local associations coordinating there efforts by targeting 50 remain MPs with votes of no confidence & deselection. How ironic Dominic Grieve's local party's no confidence vote is next Friday the 29th. Nick Boles is high up on the list for this to happen to as well. Any MP that clearly stated in the 2017 GE that they were backing remain like the Lib Dems I don't have a problem with, but I do with those that stood on a Brexit manifesto to sucker the electorates votes & have since shown their contempt by doing the opposite like my local MP Dr Phillip Lee who has constantly sided with Rudd, Soubry, Boles, Grieve, Cooper etc while trousering ~£250k pa in wages & expenses. >:( >:( >:(
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My local Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin is another one, although rumour has it that he is off to the Lords soon to carry on his work for the Establishment dressed in ermine... ::)
West Dorset is a solid Tory seat so it will be very interesting at the next election if we have a new Tory candidate given the current political situation and that the personal loyalties that Letwin has built up over the last 20 years or so will fall away. :)
Watch your blood pressure though Rods! ;) :y
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My local Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin is another one, although rumour has it that he is off to the Lords soon to carry on his work for the Establishment dressed in ermine... ::)
West Dorset is a solid Tory seat so it will be very interesting at the next election if we have a new Tory candidate given the current political situation and that the personal loyalties that Letwin has built up over the last 20 years or so will fall away. :)
Watch your blood pressure though Rods! ;) :y
Just checked it 120/77 so it is fine. They haven't got to me yet! :y :y :y
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Unfortunately, EU Agent May last & this week cancelled our democracy in favour of a joint May/Brussels dictatorship which I & many others, especially the 17.4m leave voters she has just sh*t on, will not accept. There are going to be a whole range of civil disobedience measures from now onwards that started last night with the slow lorry / van driving on a few major roads, which has spread today to many major roads.
May is too stupid to remember the last PM who used Parliament to declared an ill advised war on the people with the poll tax and look how that ended for Margaret Thatcher's time in office. May's will end will be the same. She has also destroyed the electorates trust in the Tory party with our first chance in the May 2nd local elections to show by how much. I have never voted anything but Tory in these before but this time it will be along with many others anything but Tory. MPs are saying if she loses more than 1000 seats, she is toast, so we have a target now.
Mainland Europe is showing how much the Internet & social media is changing the political landscape with the rise of new parties. Many of these are anti-EU populist ones. A new Dutch anti-EU party have gone in their first election from nothing to the biggest party. It wouldn't surprise me if Nigel Farage's Brexit Party did the same. The vested-interests only incumbent parties of Labour/Conservative/LibDems have been shown up by Brexit for what they are. I expect the next few years to be a bumpy ride in UK politics but we will hopefully become a better country with a working democracy again.
Tory party members are also fighting back from the grass roots level with many local associations coordinating there efforts by targeting 50 remain MPs with votes of no confidence & deselection. How ironic Dominic Grieve's local party's no confidence vote is next Friday the 29th. Nick Boles is high up on the list for this to happen to as well. Any MP that clearly stated in the 2017 GE that they were backing remain like the Lib Dems I don't have a problem with, but I do with those that stood on a Brexit manifesto to sucker the electorates votes & have since shown their contempt by doing the opposite like my local MP Dr Phillip Lee who has constantly sided with Rudd, Soubry, Boles, Grieve, Cooper etc while trousering ~£250k pa in wages & expenses. >:( >:( >:(
so it should be! any mp who desires to change the referendum result or changes their allegiance,should be kicked out of the place
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the part that puzzles me though, is mar 29th,by law we leave then ,and its also eu law, plus the queen has signed it off,god bless her, so surely they cannot delay it as its actual law?in fact its a ratified treaty!
Parliament can not, legally, change the UK Withdrawal Act in order to delay the UK departure beyond the 29th March 2019 with a ‘Statutory Instrument’ but will actually need a FULL ACT of Parliament to do so, because the withdrawal act is not merely a law but a TREATY!
That would mean going through both houses back and forth in the next 6 days... not going to happen!
Any extension is illegal, non binding, unconstitutional, and parliamentary prerogative powers cannot be used in this way under the law. The LAW needs to be enforced by those, who are not only the makers, but also the protectorate of it!
We WILL be leaving at 11pm on 29th March
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It's an Act of Parliament, not an international treaty and I believe that changing the necessary provision of European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 by Statutory Instrument is sufficient to delay our exit from the EU. :(
The European Council, by unanimously agreeing an extension, have fulfilled their obligations to EU law as laid out by Article 50 to facilitate that extension. Bastards! ;D
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STMO has stated that he and his whippet are leaving the EU on March 29th regardless of what the rest of the country does. :y
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STMO has stated that he and his whippet are leaving the EU on March 29th regardless of what the rest of the country does. :y
Yep, I'm out!
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It's an Act of Parliament, not an international treaty and I believe that changing the necessary provision of European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 by Statutory Instrument is sufficient to delay our exit from the EU. :(
The European Council, by unanimously agreeing an extension, have fulfilled their obligations to EU law as laid out by Article 50 to facilitate that extension. Bastards! ;D
May has signed a letter confirming the extension and the extension has been published in the official EU journal. Correct there is a provision in the act that an SI can change the leaving date. This will have to be done next week once we know what it is as a result of a vote or not on May's WA sellout.
Lots of Tweets this evening about a cabinet coup to force May to resign. There is so mush Tory disinformation at the moment I will only believe it when I see it.
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STMO has stated that he and his whippet are leaving the EU on March 29th regardless of what the rest of the country does. :y
Yep, I'm out!
And me
I'm having a party the night before
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Lots of Tweets this evening about a cabinet coup to force May to resign. There is so mush Tory disinformation at the moment I will only believe it when I see it.
Possible new PM rumoured to either be Lidington or Gove. :-\
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Remoaniac replaced by an even bigger remoaniac who would have guessed it. Tory party are determined to destroy themselves like many political institutions have before them. :-[ :(
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I wonder how new political parties and the break up of the Tories would change anything?
Surely Britain would just end up with no party with a majority .
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I wonder how new political parties and the break up of the Tories would change anything?
Surely Britain would just end up with no party with a majority .
that's normal in most democracies. It's our unusual first past the post system that has led to two dominant parties and a continual swing from left to right and back again.
Reform of our parliamentary system is long overdue, and the lack of it is one of the causes of the Brexit debacle. Who else gets their head of government appointed by accident?
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;D :y
well we have had the same thing here in Spain with Pedro Sanchez. That will change come end of April
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Remoaniac replaced by an even bigger remoaniac who would have guessed it. Tory party are determined to destroy themselves like many political institutions have before them. :-[ :(
Please remember that calling everyone who disagrees with you a remoaniac, as lifted from the pages of the old style Daily Fail, is likely to offend the 48% (plus those suffering CBA to vote). And as my primary school teacher said, name calling means you've immediately lost the argument.
As said several times recently, please keep the debates civil, and respect other peoples views, no matter how entrenched your own may be.
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I wonder how new political parties and the break up of the Tories would change anything?
Surely Britain would just end up with no party with a majority .
Our next democratically voted PM will be Corbyn. For that reason, even I would vote ukip if it meant a non Corbyn PM.
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Corbyn is un electable. Surely :o
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Corbyn is un electable. Surely :o
compared to whom?
It's hard to see him as good Prime Minister material(although that hasn't stopped any for the last 3 decades) and although he had promise as an opposition leader, that wasn't fulfilled.
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How about Sir Keir Starmer?
I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".
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Corbyn is un electable. Surely :o
Tories can't win again next time - they are too divided, exactly the same is in the Major years. Added to that, they lack the kind of charismatic leader that the thick UK public (which, lets be honest, is a very significant part of the electorate) will vote for. Libdems are too weak still. And the tree huggers and other niche parties will never get anywhere, even in the UK.
So by default, Labour will win. So, despite guaranteeing a step back to the 70s, he will be our next democratic leader.
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Well whoever is the next incumbent of Number 10 needs to be someone who actually believes in this country and is prepared to kick the butts of those in Westminster and Whitehall who have been trying to rob the 17.4 million of their vote for independence. :y
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How about Sir Keir Starmer?
I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".
How about the 'coloured girl'.......Diane?.... ::)
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Well whoever is the next incumbent of Number 10 needs to be someone who actually believes in this country and is prepared to kick the butts of those in Westminster and Whitehall who have been trying to rob the 17.4 million of their vote for independence. :y
Remember the majority was slim, so repeatedly spouting 17.x million isn't that significant from the 16.x million who voted the other way. It frustrates me, as its one of many ways that the vitriolic segments of the leavers try to make out that leaving was a whitewash, when it wasn't.
Not that that deters from the fact we voted to leave, and leave we should because of that (no matter how daft it is in the present climate). That was the (admittedly slim) majority. Trouble is, just about every respectable economist knows that a hard exit is severely detrimental to the UK. So a deal of some description is needed. And as most people who weren't taken in with the Brexit Bus 'dangle berries' realised at the time, UK has no bargaining power, so will never get the EU to roll over, give us a free trade deal, waive any outstanding financial commitments, and generally meet all our demands.
But even worse, and equally predictably, is our elected MPs clearly don't want to leave, and keep voting out every other option. Which is wrong, as its against the will of the those that voted in the referendum. However, despite the vocal few of the Brexiteer supporters, come the next local elections, their actions on this subject will make little difference to how the majority will think/vote.
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How about Sir Keir Starmer?
I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".
How about the 'coloured girl'.......Diane?.... ::)
Corbyn knows he will win the next election if he can stay in long enough. So the silly mare wont get a chance, fortunately.
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What will probably happen is the new leader will agree a temporary stay in Europe of ten years on the understanding that the EU reforms including not becoming more federal plus a legally binding referendum to be held in ten years time to take in those reforms. Bar will be set at 51%. Everyone must vote after a campaign setting out both sides lasting just two weeks.
Ballot paper would read:
You have seen what did or didnt happen since 2019 , ten years ago.
Do you wish to lose your identity and control and pay more but not have to think about it?
Do you wish to get out of the EU using the Plan detailed in the campaign and control your own destiny but still remain friends?
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If we have a long extension the chance of actually leaving the EU will become vanishingly small.
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One thing that has struck me is the reasons why people voted leave have been analysed to death e.g. no more immigrants, took in by the bus, no control.
I do believe I have never once seen anyone examine the reasons why people voted remain. I would guess inertia ( lack of desire for change) would have been a big factor. As would I like going on holiday to Europe. They are our trading partners. My nephew voted remain as he didnt want me to be booted out of Spain. Forgot the big one- world would end if we leave.
On both sides there were millions of voters voting badly,
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Well whoever is the next incumbent of Number 10 needs to be someone who actually believes in this country and is prepared to kick the butts of those in Westminster and Whitehall who have been trying to rob the 17.4 million of their vote for independence. :y
Remember the majority was slim, so repeatedly spouting 17.x million isn't that significant from the 16.x million who voted the other way. It frustrates me, as its one of many ways that the vitriolic segments of the leavers try to make out that leaving was a whitewash, when it wasn't.
Not that that deters from the fact we voted to leave, and leave we should because of that (no matter how daft it is in the present climate). That was the (admittedly slim) majority. Trouble is, just about every respectable economist knows that a hard exit is severely detrimental to the UK. So a deal of some description is needed. And as most people who weren't taken in with the Brexit Bus 'dangle berries' realised at the time, UK has no bargaining power, so will never get the EU to roll over, give us a free trade deal, waive any outstanding financial commitments, and generally meet all our demands.
But even worse, and equally predictably, is our elected MPs clearly don't want to leave, and keep voting out every other option. Which is wrong, as its against the will of the those that voted in the referendum. However, despite the vocal few of the Brexiteer supporters, come the next local elections, their actions on this subject will make little difference to how the majority will think/vote.
You are right the majority was slim, but had the result gone 52%/48% the other way would any consideration been given then to the 48%? ::) I don't think so...
The UK did have bargaining power, but it was just that our pathetic spineless politicians and officials declined to use it, somehow believing that if they were nice to the EU, they would be nice back. I bet Barnier couldn't believe his luck! ::)
At the end of the day though, however bad Theresa May has been, it could have been worse had Corbyn and Mcdonnell been handling the negotiations as I'm sure that they would have readily agreed to hand over the £100 billion of taxpayers money that Barnier originally tried to scam us for! >:(
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How about Sir Keir Starmer?
I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".
How about the 'coloured girl'.......Diane?.... ::)
Are you allowed to say that in these ultra PC days. ::)
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One thing that has struck me is the reasons why people voted leave have been analysed to death e.g. no more immigrants, took in by the bus, no control.
I do believe I have never once seen anyone examine the reasons why people voted remain. I would guess inertia ( lack of desire for change) would have been a big factor. As would I like going on holiday to Europe. They are our trading partners. My nephew voted remain as he didnt want me to be booted out of Spain. Forgot the big one- world would end if we leave.
On both sides there were millions of voters voting badly,
For me it was for none of the reasons you state Varche, but I know if I explain what those justifiable reasons were, and are, I will be insulted on here. That is a pointless exercise on a car forum that nowadays, after past experiences, I use to just keep my Omega running but contributing to discussions when I believe I can do so. ;)
Still, during the English Civil War, when the population was equally split supporting "their viewpoint", they killed each other, or died of disease caused by the conflict, to a greater percentage of loss of population than during both World Wars! So things are better this time around!! :D :D ;)
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
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Good for the economy too :D
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::) I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU. ::) I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone? There were 142 responses of which 73% said No.
Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts. The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany. ;)
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece! ::) Not to mention here! ;D
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
I know you were not Varche. I just took the opportunity to voice how I feel without going too far :D ;)
My war comment was a deliberate link to how I feel. Europe as one has escaped the awful wars of the past. Split up, the risk of was as countries are picked off is high. Russia is just waiting for the opportunity. :(
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::) I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU. ::) I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone? There were 142 responses of which 73% said No.
Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts. The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany. ;)
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece! ::) Not to mention here! ;D
Pardon :o :o
Do you not think Russia caused the main reason for it? ??? ???
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I do believe I have never once seen anyone examine the reasons why people voted remain. I would guess inertia ( lack of desire for change) would have been a big factor. As would I like going on holiday to Europe.
Hmmm, not really heard those before. For me, and most people I know who voted to remain, it was for National economic reasons, which thus impacts personal economic reasons.
Due to referendum, and the seemingly likely no deal scenario, Mrs TB's job is severely in the firing line. My pensions are decimated, so despite putting away an awful lot every month since I was kicked out of any final salary schemes, I will be reliant on the state... ...a state that won't, IMHO, be able afford to keep its pensioners. All of which was entirely predictable, as I pointed out nearly 3 years ago.
That's why I voted as I did.
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::) I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU. ::) I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone? There were 142 responses of which 73% said No.
Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts. The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany. ;)
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece! ::) Not to mention here! ;D
Pardon :o :o
Do you not think Russia caused the main reason for it? ??? ???
No it was Ukraine signing the EU Association agreement that led to Russia's annexation of the Crimea and the invasion of Eastern Ukraine. ::)
The EU should have kept their noses out of Putin's backyard, as I'd have thought that anyone with half a brain would have seen that Russia would react negatively towards a major country within their sphere of influence being lured away. ;)
They could have offered Ukraine a FTA and encouraged them to look East and West, rather than the Association Agreement which is a step towards full membership, and gives the EU power and control over Ukraines affairs. ::)
I'm not justifying Russia's actions though, just giving the reasons as I see it. :)
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::) I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU. ::) I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone? There were 142 responses of which 73% said No.
Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts. The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany. ;)
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece! ::) Not to mention here! ;D
Pardon :o :o
Do you not think Russia caused the main reason for it? ??? ???
No it was Ukraine signing the EU Association agreement that led to Russia's annexation of the Crimea and the invasion of Eastern Ukraine. ::)
The EU should have kept their noses out of Putin's backyard, as I'd have thought that anyone with half a brain would have seen that Russia would react negatively towards a major country within their sphere of influence being lured away. ;)
They could have offered Ukraine a FTA and encouraged them to look East and West, rather than the Association Agreement which is a step towards full membership, and gives the EU power and control over Ukraines affairs. ::)
I'm not justifying Russia's actions though, just giving the reasons as I see it. :)
Good points made there Sir Tigger :y :y
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...........and thinking about your answer further, I have to say that is the danger of a group of countries agreeing an unfavourable "agreement" that affects one single country. Echoes of history; echoes of the dreadful Versailes Treaty that led to WW2 :( :(
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Spot on Sir Tigger. :y
Furthermore, the EU sponsored and supported the protesters who overthrew the elected Ukraine President. He may have been corrupt and friendly towards Putin, but he was elected all the same.
The game was kind of given away by the fact that all the protesters had the same brand new jackets, tents etc. indicating that someone was paying to buy them in industrial quantities.
This was during the tenure of Cathy Ashton as EU foreign minister (or some similar job title).
She started out as Treasurer of CND - refusing to say if they had taken money from the Soviets,
She rose without trace during the Blair years. never stood for election to any post, served in many positions on the UK gravy train, then ended up in the Lords where she was given the job of steering the Lisbon treaty through the chamber. Her reward for this from McRuin, was to be given a very long holiday from the lords in Brussels for as many years as suited her, where Blair expected her to prepare the ground for him to become President of Europe.
It didn't quite work out for him (yet) but she ended up in a very senior position where she earned more than the President of the U.S. while she blundered her way around Europe and came close to starting WW3 in the process.
An utterly disgraceful and useless woman, but very typical of the elite who run the show in the Western world these days.
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No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.
I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::) I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU. ::) I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone? There were 142 responses of which 73% said No.
Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts. The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany. ;)
Good point about the losses in the Civil War. maybe that is the solution..... have a war. :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece! ::) Not to mention here! ;D
Pardon :o :o
Do you not think Russia caused the main reason for it? ??? ???
It was the primary cause but the EU was a contributory factor & the trigger point, but in all honesty where Yanukovych was working hard to be a Putin mini-me & won the election with the help of Paul Manafort dirty tricks who was also Trump's campaign manager! Yanukovych was stealing too much in every sector of Ukraine to last the distance, but as Putin's man this was never going to end well with the electorate on Maiden forcing him out after his putin mini-me order to open fire & kill the Heavenly Hundred.
Paul Manafort for his corruption is now doing over 7 years inside as a convicted criminal. He tried to minimise his jail time by cutting a deal with Mueller that fell apart through lying. Over 7 years bird, I guess, is better than flying like a bird from a 7th floor hotel window where he has worked with Putin for too long, knows too much, & self preservation stops him talking about things that would upset his boss. :-[ :o 7 years is just the starter sentence as his collusion sentence is likely to be much longer & in all likelihood he will die in jail.
Putin declared Cold War 2.0 with the 2008 invasion of Georgia & the west has been slow to respond to the challenge. And respond we must when an unofficial war has been declared or by default we lose. Europe has done better than the US & some European countries much better than others, including the UK. He has already got his man in the White House & is steadily doing the same in Europe with both parties in Government in Greece, the same in Italy, he has loaned money to Le Pens party & she spouts his deza., is closely aligned with the Czech & Hungarian presidents, with AfD & the Social Democrats in Germany & has influence over UKIP which is why they have always voted against EU Russian sanction in the EU Parliament. He has his influences in the EU but considers them & NATO after the US as his major threats & he is trying hard to split US & Europe over NATO & the to speed up the failure & breakup of the EU (which will happen anyway without his help, but he may accelerate the process a bit). He biggest hope of getting his man installed in the UK is his Czech paid Soviet era Agent Comrade Corbyn. >:( >:( >:(
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Mueller does not find any evidence of collusion between Trump's camp and Russia according to Attorney general Barr. Oh well, Rods, never mind.
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mullered
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the part that puzzles me though, is mar 29th,by law we leave then ,and its also eu law, plus the queen has signed it off,god bless her, so surely they cannot delay it as its actual law?in fact its a ratified treaty!
Parliament can not, legally, change the UK Withdrawal Act in order to delay the UK departure beyond the 29th March 2019 with a ‘Statutory Instrument’ but will actually need a FULL ACT of Parliament to do so, because the withdrawal act is not merely a law but a TREATY!
That would mean going through both houses back and forth in the next 6 days... not going to happen!
Any extension is illegal, non binding, unconstitutional, and parliamentary prerogative powers cannot be used in this way under the law. The LAW needs to be enforced by those, who are not only the makers, but also the protectorate of it!
We WILL be leaving at 11pm on 29th March
There's an interesting article in the Telegraph today by Martin Howe QC who argues that the way Theresa May has gone about securing the A50 extension is unconstitutional. He says that Parliament should have voted on the Statutory Instrument that allows the extension before the letter was sent to Donald Tusk and the extension was agreed with the EU. The precedent was set by the Gina Miller case which denied the government the use of prerogative powers to trigger the A50 period in the first place. ;)
It's a technicality really though and as they're all running around like headless chickens at the moment.... ::)
The article if anyone is interested is behind a paywall on the Telegraph's site, but if you poke about you'll find it copied somewhere. :)
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Mueller does not find any evidence of collusion between Trump's camp and Russia according to Attorney general Barr. Oh well, Rods, never mind.
AG hand picked by Trump to try & save his skin, who would have guessed this reaction. ::) ::) ::) A good judge will be if the republicans allow the publishing of the full report. Mueller has been invited to testify before congress which he has accepted. Mueller was basically the coordinator of the investigation which has now been handed over to a large number of federal & state teams to investigate further, indite & convict. If the evidence comes from intelligence sources then there has to be a trade off of prosecution v protection of intelligence sources. Traditionally protection of sources has always been a much higher priority than prosecutions. Spooks that have seen the evidence have inferred there is enough, if it can be used, to put him away for the rest of his life. So all in all it is now a wait & see game to see how things proceed from here. Mobster Trump & his clan are guilty of many crimes & the reopening of the convicted pedophile Epstein investigation for corruption of a Florida state prosecutor is now an ongoing case again where they thought they had got away with their crimes from going to his parties.
NY prosecutors office are still investigating Trump's numerous financial crimes including his bogus charitable foundation, which they shut a couple of months a go where it was being used as a vehicle for tax evasion. How much Trump gets away with will also depend upon his choices for replacing over 90 judges including having a republican majority on the Supreme Court.