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Author Topic: Plumbing Timebomb  (Read 3765 times)

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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #15 on: 26 May 2018, 14:07:44 »

I've just refitted a bathroom using plastic plumbing and I just don't think it'll last as long as copper would.  :-\

When it does start to leak in 10, 20 or 30 years it'll be a right ballache, as it's buried under the floorboards, a layer of hardboard and vinyl, but that will be someone else's problem!  :y

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #16 on: 26 May 2018, 15:14:06 »

Ours survives the most horrendous fluctuations of pressure.  Our village water system is 40 years old and always having leaks.

That reminds me. I must put a new pressure limiting valve in line. Already have one on the washing machine leg of pipework.
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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #17 on: 26 May 2018, 17:03:27 »

 I’ve used them extensively without issue and will continue to do so. What I probably wouldn’t do is de-mount them and then re-use the fittings if they’ve been in place for some time as I suspect the o-rings may have deformed.

The majority of plumbers will tell you not to use them  But then again, they have a significant vested interest in people being unable to plumb their houses themselves. So that’s hardly impartial advice now is it.   ::)
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Bigron

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #18 on: 26 May 2018, 17:32:40 »

As Randy Mice-Davies once famously said in Court - "They would say that, wouldn't they?"!  ;D

Ron.
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Rods2

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #19 on: 26 May 2018, 17:48:30 »

I personally stick to using soldered copper fittings with compression joints for valves and taps. The house was built in 1977 and I've made various changes since 1985 with no problems. It has stood the test of time whereas the plastic type is a reliability work in progress which our children and grandchildren will know how good in the next 50-100 years. Certainly there have been reported problems with long term brittle fracture of early mains black plastic water pipes used by waterboards. :o :o :o

I accept that long copper hot water pipe runs are a pain unless insulated where you have to wait an age for the hot water to arrive and plastic will be better on this front, but they will all be cold with normal intermittent use. My kitchen plumbing I'm changing with refitting the kitchen as the original plumbing goes across the kitchen, down the far wall and back to the sink, but can be made about 1/3 of the length by bringing the pipes directly from the airing cupboard and tank down the wall at the opposite end of the kitchen. :y :y :y
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2018, 14:12:36 »

As I have said before, I have never nor would never use them especially after being given advise not to do so from two professional plumbers.

I must say also I love plumbing with copper and forming the joints, so a Lego type system that can "pop" at anytime due to pressure fluctuations and age does not impress me.  The effects on  electrical earthing is another factor that puts me off.

Why give yourself a chance of collapsing ceilings and damaged walls when using push-fits when you could do everything very securely with standard copper fittings? ???

I am with you, Lizzie. :y Plumbing with copper pipe is one of those skills that is just satisfying to practice every now and then. There may not be any reason for it these days, but, a bit like driving a proper car with 3 pedals, I find it satisfying to do it well and to do so requires occasional practice. ;)

I have used plastic plumbing for convenience in the past, but only in temporary or "under the sink" situations where a leak is immediately obvious and not too damaging. I wouldn't for a minute use it on central heating systems, under floors, and anywhere inaccessible, but I've come across plenty of installations where this has been done, and by real plumbers too. 

As said, give it 20 years and the rubber O rings will perish and you'll be in all sorts of bother, especially in a central heating system where the water can get very hot and be subject to frequent temperature fluctuations.
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deviator

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2018, 14:19:50 »

I too am one of those saddo's that appreciates and even enjoys copper pipe plumbing. Most of my house has been plumbed by me, excluding gas.

It's not difficult, just follow basic procedures and you won't go wrong.
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Rods2

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #22 on: 30 May 2018, 01:29:51 »

The key with all good soldering is clean joint surfaces and adding flux to the surfaces where it acts as a catalyst to make the solder flow. Wth copper pipes and fittings, wire wool is ideal for cleaning the joint surfaces to remove any/all copper oxide and other contaminants. :y :y :y
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aaronjb

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #23 on: 30 May 2018, 08:59:23 »

As said, give it 20 years and the rubber O rings will perish and you'll be in all sorts of bother, especially in a central heating system where the water can get very hot and be subject to frequent temperature fluctuations.

The same was true of the copper central heating pipes buried in the floor of my last house, mind.. built in 1970, leaking in 2010 (ok, that's 40 years.. statistical variance ;D). Of course, that could probably have been avoided if the folks that built it had lagged the pipes to stop the concrete eating them..
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #24 on: 30 May 2018, 09:32:51 »

As said, give it 20 years and the rubber O rings will perish and you'll be in all sorts of bother, especially in a central heating system where the water can get very hot and be subject to frequent temperature fluctuations.

The same was true of the copper central heating pipes buried in the floor of my last house, mind.. built in 1970, leaking in 2010 (ok, that's 40 years.. statistical variance ;D). Of course, that could probably have been avoided if the folks that built it had lagged the pipes to stop the concrete eating them..

Yep, exactly, but the builder was long gone by then, so lagging was unnecessary. ::)

At least my current house has the central heating pipes in channels in the floor that have wooden covers, so you can get to it.
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aaronjb

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #25 on: 30 May 2018, 09:41:54 »

Yep, exactly, but the builder was long gone by then, so lagging was unnecessary. ::)

At least my current house has the central heating pipes in channels in the floor that have wooden covers, so you can get to it.

Yeah - that was sadly not the case in Bracknell; we had to (well, the insurance company) dig the floor up to find the leak after they'd gone searching with thermal imaging cameras. Which was fun ;D

At least this house is all suspended floors (except possibly the kitchen), should I need to play 'hunt the leak' again ;D
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #26 on: 30 May 2018, 09:59:58 »

I had some which were a good age (10 plus year sold), they were problem free until disturbed and then they started to weep.

Now replaced with copper.  :y
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #27 on: 30 May 2018, 10:00:44 »

The key with all good soldering is clean joint surfaces and adding flux to the surfaces where it acts as a catalyst to make the solder flow. Wth copper pipes and fittings, wire wool is ideal for cleaning the joint surfaces to remove any/all copper oxide and other contaminants. :y :y :y

Green kitchen scourers are my favourite, plus they appear to magically appear in the kitchen cupboard.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #28 on: 30 May 2018, 17:41:23 »

The key with all good soldering is clean joint surfaces and adding flux to the surfaces where it acts as a catalyst to make the solder flow. Wth copper pipes and fittings, wire wool is ideal for cleaning the joint surfaces to remove any/all copper oxide and other contaminants. :y :y :y

Unless you are using compression joints, I would never even consider not using flux, which is essential when coupling pre-soldered or plain joints adding solder.

I also use a small file to clean the ends of cut pipes to remove swarf from inside the pipe and outside giving it a camber edge to stop muck flowing around the new system and ensure a water-tight fit.  ;)
« Last Edit: 30 May 2018, 17:44:33 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Bigron

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Re: Plumbing Timebomb
« Reply #29 on: 30 May 2018, 18:08:29 »

Flux also prevents oxidation of the molden solder, helping adhesion and making a smoother joint: smells nice, too!  :y 8)

Ron.

P.S. The Safety Elf warns against breathing the vapours, known as Colophony fumes; apparently, there is NO known safe level of exposure, so take care.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg249.pdf
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