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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Brexit.
« on: 08 June 2018, 12:28:20 »

Looks like it's going to be more BREXIT means BRINO rather than BREXIT means BREXIT.

A total cluster f*uck. The chuckle brothers would have made more effective negotiators. :-\

As for a second referendum........I don't want it. We have already voted. :-\
« Last Edit: 08 June 2018, 12:31:13 by Field Marshal Dr. Opti »
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STEMO

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #1 on: 08 June 2018, 13:06:56 »

Brexit??? They kept that quiet.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #2 on: 08 June 2018, 13:08:16 »

As for a second referendum........I don't want it. We have already voted. :-\

Agree. If we have a second ref, I will vote, and vote again to remain, but I've no desire for one, let's just get on with it FFS!
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #3 on: 08 June 2018, 13:16:35 »

BRINO ? what dat mean?
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #4 on: 08 June 2018, 13:22:38 »

BRINO ? what dat mean?

Brexit in name only.

We leave (but not really) ::)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #5 on: 08 June 2018, 13:52:49 »

That is a racing cert unless the other option occurs. May (despite her magnificent effort with the heathrow poison chalice) falls and the Conservatives disintegrate over any one of a number of things. Corbyn gets in and Britain rejoins the EU it never left but on worse terms to become a vassal state and paying handsomely for the priviledge.  BRISERF would be my acronym.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #6 on: 08 June 2018, 14:18:19 »

I reckon we should all leave the Country then Vote In, or is it Out, cant remember now which way around it should be, but I still reckon I could do a better job than the current Muppet's.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #7 on: 08 June 2018, 14:35:25 »

 :( Everything is just a shambles , Brexit, the railways , the roads , the police , the NHS , the retail sector is collapsing by the day , we're turning into a third world country and our snowflake politicians don't know where to turn  >:(
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #8 on: 08 June 2018, 14:41:35 »

If it came to it, I would still vote leave...

As for acronyms, how about:

Completely Useless, Needs Termination Soon.
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2018, 15:00:51 »

If it came to it, I would still vote leave...

As for acronyms, how about:

Completely Useless, Needs Termination Soon.

Buts this spells a rude word...... :D ;D ;D
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2018, 15:16:54 »

If it came to it, I would still vote leave...

As for acronyms, how about:

Completely Useless, Needs Termination Soon.

To truly leave the EU we can't be part of the single market or the customs union......and this seems more unlikely as time goes by.

If we are part of these we will be unable to trade freely and will still be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. We will still have to follow EU law

but have no say in making it.

We will also have no say in how many 'dark foreign johnnies' can come into the country........one of the main reasons people voted to leave the EU.

This would be BRINO. :)
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #11 on: 08 June 2018, 15:20:35 »

Perhaps we should just 'get the f*uck out of there' as arch brexiteer Peter Bone suggests. WTO rules and all that.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #12 on: 08 June 2018, 15:23:22 »

Perhaps we should just 'get the f*uck out of there' as arch brexiteer Peter Bone suggests. WTO rules and all that.
Absokinglutely :y

When I voted leave the first time, I meant out out rather than stick a pinky out with a plaster on it ;)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #13 on: 08 June 2018, 16:27:11 »

Perhaps we should just 'get the f*uck out of there' as arch brexiteer Peter Bone suggests. WTO rules and all that.
Absokinglutely :y

When I voted leave the first time, I meant out out rather than stick a pinky out with a plaster on it ;)

Yes.....I would rather we left with a bang as opposed to a whimper. But this is our own fault for trying to cling on to the EU for the 'good bits'
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #14 on: 08 June 2018, 17:15:26 »

:( Everything is just a shambles , Brexit, the railways , the roads , the police , the NHS , the retail sector is collapsing by the day , we're turning into a third world country and our snowflake politicians don't know where to turn  >:(

...........and the common denominator in all that is.............the general public who have only wanted to spend as little as they can over the last couple of decades at least instead of supporting what is really required for quality and survival.

Speaking about retail I can say I have watched how Joe Public has flocked away from the high street to the out of town centres, then recently to the likes of Lidl and Aldi, then complained how their high street is dying, with the question "why?".  Oh dear, oh dear, what a country we have become!! ::) ::) ::)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #15 on: 08 June 2018, 17:35:06 »

Yup, you can count me in that number.

Used to live in a little town called Ellesmere in Shropshire, which had a "thriving" local high street. Ie it had fairly low quality shops with surly staff, short (often irregular) opening hours and a poor selection of goods. The best thing that happened to that place was when Tesco moved in.

Shops either upped their game or died on their collective ar$e and good riddance to them.  ::)
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #16 on: 08 June 2018, 17:38:38 »

:( Everything is just a shambles , Brexit, the railways , the roads , the police , the NHS , the retail sector is collapsing by the day , we're turning into a third world country and our snowflake politicians don't know where to turn  >:(

...........and the common denominator in all that is.............the general public who have only wanted to spend as little as they can over the last couple of decades at least instead of supporting what is really required for quality and survival.

Speaking about retail I can say I have watched how Joe Public has flocked away from the high street to the out of town centres, then recently to the likes of Lidl and Aldi, then complained how their high street is dying, with the question "why?". Oh dear, oh dear, what a country we have become!! ::) ::) ::)

Hmm.....you could well be correct, Lizzie.

I may have to take the reins from Theresa and 'make Britain great again' all by myself :) :)

She is no doubt doing her best but the responsibility of being PM is simply too much for a mere girlie. :) :-* :-* :-*
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #17 on: 08 June 2018, 18:02:09 »

Perhaps we should just 'get the f*uck out of there' as arch brexiteer Peter Bone suggests. WTO rules and all that.
Absokinglutely :y

When I voted leave the first time, I meant out out rather than stick a pinky out with a plaster on it ;)

Yes.....I would rather we left with a bang as opposed to a whimper. But this is our own fault for trying to cling on to the EU for the 'good bits'
We aren't, but the ttwwatts in charge are. Therein lies the issue... It's our fault for electing them :'(

Question to self... What would happen if no one voted at the next election?
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #18 on: 08 June 2018, 18:04:08 »

That is a racing cert unless the other option occurs. May (despite her magnificent effort with the heathrow poison chalice) falls and the Conservatives disintegrate over any one of a number of things. Corbyn gets in and Britain rejoins the EU it never left but on worse terms to become a vassal state and paying handsomely for the priviledge.  BRISERF would be my acronym.

That would be the height of irony, as May is a remainer and Corbyn a lifelong opponent of the EU and everything to do with it.
His website was full of anti EU material until just after he became leader, when it all suddenly disappeared.
And his deluded supporters think he is a man of high principle who doesn't do dirty politicking.  ::)
We have a PM who is so paralysed with  fear she is incapable of deciding between a cup of tea or coffee, and even if she wasn't she doesn't really have a majority to work with anyway.
She should at least have the bottle to withdraw the whip and expel from the party, the small band of nutjobs behind her who are defying their own constituents and fighting against the manifesto they stood for election on.
Labour is actually far more divided on the issue than the Tories are, but its less important because they aren't in power.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #19 on: 08 June 2018, 18:06:02 »

When the dust settles on ll of this, if the Tories win a decent majority next time, the house of Lords should be toast - with any luck.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #20 on: 08 June 2018, 18:20:27 »

Firstly, the British public aren't ready for a leader who could actually do a hard Brexit.  We would need a dictator, and have already shot all those disagreeing with the plan.

Secondly, surely when everybody voted in the referendum, the outcome of leaving was always going to be wishy-washy.  Even removing the Irish obvious stumbling block, manufacturing industry needs close European ties.


So all this has achieved is to play into the hands of wee jimmy kranky, and to abandon Northern Ireland to become part of the Irish Republic.  Oh, and screwed the economy in the process, and in many sectors, irreparably.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #21 on: 08 June 2018, 18:25:48 »

What purpose does NI actually serve?

I will ask Samantha* when she returns from the beach... ;)

*A forthright Protestant from the Province.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #22 on: 08 June 2018, 18:27:38 »

:( Everything is just a shambles , Brexit, the railways , the roads , the police , the NHS , the retail sector is collapsing by the day , we're turning into a third world country and our snowflake politicians don't know where to turn  >:(

Well I have just seen the light. Britain is going down the pan, leaves the EU and things get worse (before they have a chance to get better in the long term). The leader of the day petitions the Eu to join and become a net recipient of money. That is put to good use and within a few years Britain has miles of really high speed trains and track, miles of new motorways, banking comes back to Britain because of all the Eu subsidies on developments and retail recovers. More money for the police and the NHS as less needs to be spent on armed forces. Britain contributes instead a paltry sum to the EU army. 

PS as I said before- sell NI to the  Irish EU for 1.6 trillion. That would solve a lot of issues.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #23 on: 08 June 2018, 18:38:01 »

Retailing and the NHS won't recover because they are run by clowns... I would go as far as to wager that even Waitrose won't see 2020 :-X

Actually at the rate it's going, 2019 could be a stretch :-X
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #24 on: 08 June 2018, 18:44:52 »

What purpose does NI actually serve?

I will ask Samantha* when she returns from the beach... ;)

*A forthright Protestant from the Province.

As am I. It serves exactly the same role / purpose as the other three constituent countries of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  ;)

The border issue is the biggest red herring Ive ever seen. There is no real problem, but people who  I consider to be bordering on sicl are trying to make it an insurmountable problem.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #25 on: 08 June 2018, 18:50:23 »

:( Everything is just a shambles , Brexit, the railways , the roads , the police , the NHS , the retail sector is collapsing by the day , we're turning into a third world country and our snowflake politicians don't know where to turn  >:(

Well I have just seen the light. Britain is going down the pan, leaves the EU and things get worse (before they have a chance to get better in the long term). The leader of the day petitions the Eu to join and become a net recipient of money. That is put to good use and within a few years Britain has miles of really high speed trains and track, miles of new motorways, banking comes back to Britain because of all the Eu subsidies on developments and retail recovers. More money for the police and the NHS as less needs to be spent on armed forces. Britain contributes instead a paltry sum to the EU army. 

PS as I said before- sell NI to the  Irish EU for 1.6 trillion. That would solve a lot of issues.

Apart from the fact that one part of the UK has no right to sell, give away, or in any way decide the future of one of the others - trust me, it would create problems like you cant imagine.  ::)
The Irish border has always been as porous as a sponge. That isn't going to change. The amount of trade going across it is 3 billion p.a. which is paltry in the grand scheme of things.
Felixstowe docks has 80 billion of trade going in / out p.a. and its all done with barely a customs officer in sight.
As I said, its a huge red herring.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #26 on: 08 June 2018, 18:55:54 »

The amount of trade going across it is 3 billion p.a. which is paltry in the grand scheme of things.
Felixstowe docks has 80 billion of trade going in / out p.a. and its all done with barely a customs officer in sight.
As I said, its a huge red herring.
But it becomes an easy route to get EU goods in without paying the various import duties.  So it has to be a less pourous border, and the money and effort to make that the case has to be found.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #27 on: 08 June 2018, 19:00:11 »

There is so much waffle, muddying of the waters etc. around this subject, but for me there is only really one important thing.
It might be best explained by what Jean Monnet (a founding father of "the project") said in 1952.
"Europes nations should be guided to become a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation".
When you look at what has happened in this country and across Europe in the last half century, and possibly much of it didn't make sense ? , if you look at it through the perspective of Monnets statement, it all makes perfect sense.
How anyone could want to join or remain a part of it is utterly beyond me.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #28 on: 08 June 2018, 19:01:23 »

How anyone could want to join or remain a part of it is utterly beyond me.
Pragmatism.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #29 on: 08 June 2018, 19:01:42 »

The amount of trade going across it is 3 billion p.a. which is paltry in the grand scheme of things.
Felixstowe docks has 80 billion of trade going in / out p.a. and its all done with barely a customs officer in sight.
As I said, its a huge red herring.
But it becomes an easy route to get EU goods in without paying the various import duties.  So it has to be a less pourous border, and the money and effort to make that the case has to be found.

Wit the same type of technology used at Felixstowe (for example) large scale evasion will be avoided. Small scale evasion always has and always will occur at the border.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #30 on: 08 June 2018, 19:05:09 »

How anyone could want to join or remain a part of it is utterly beyond me.
Pragmatism.Fear and apathy...
Fixed
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #31 on: 08 June 2018, 19:12:48 »

How anyone could want to join or remain a part of it is utterly beyond me.
Pragmatism.Fear and apathy...
Fixed
Incorrect DG.  Looking at the pros and cons, and the realistic likelihood of coming out completely and the outcomes of that, that was what made me vote the way I did.

But that's irrelevant now, we made the decision as a country, so will have to put up with a half arsed exit, and get the worse of both worlds.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #32 on: 08 June 2018, 19:23:27 »

All the more reason to do it decisively rather than the dollop of poo we seem to be getting.

This was leave before we can't. Not whether we should stay or not and if so, how loosely...

Don't forget that the wrong decision was made in the '70s...

This is, or damn well should be, about correcting that mistake.
« Last Edit: 08 June 2018, 19:25:18 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #33 on: 08 June 2018, 19:36:31 »

The amount of trade going across it is 3 billion p.a. which is paltry in the grand scheme of things.
Felixstowe docks has 80 billion of trade going in / out p.a. and its all done with barely a customs officer in sight.
As I said, its a huge red herring.
But it becomes an easy route to get EU goods in without paying the various import duties.  So it has to be a less pourous border, and the money and effort to make that the case has to be found.

Yes Jeremy Whine commented today that smuggling would be a huge problem if there are no checks at the border.  ::)

I thought to myself " What the hell are the Irish going to smuggle into the UK..... Potatoes?! " :D  ;D
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #34 on: 08 June 2018, 19:39:27 »

Jeremy Whine commented today

He does that, you should probably ignore him ;)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #35 on: 08 June 2018, 19:46:37 »

Jeremy Whine commented today

He does that, you should probably ignore him ;)

Another daft comment he made a while back when talking about BREXIT was " After BREXIT how will we stop the Welsh from selling chlorinated chicken in the RoI? "  ::)

I thought to myself " We don't.  That's the Paddies problem. "  ;D

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #36 on: 08 June 2018, 19:48:56 »

Sometimes I am embarrassed to have been to the same Prep School as him...

Not that his leftie opinions would ever suggest he knew what a Prep School is :-X
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #37 on: 08 June 2018, 20:06:08 »

How anyone could want to join or remain a part of it is utterly beyond me.
Pragmatism.

You call it pragmatism, I call it Munchausen syndrome.  ::)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #38 on: 08 June 2018, 20:08:08 »

How anyone could want to join or remain a part of it is utterly beyond me.
Pragmatism.

You call it pragmatism, I call it Munchausen syndrome.  ::)
Is that 'on the spectrum'?
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #39 on: 09 June 2018, 08:16:46 »

Yes Jeremy Whine commented today that smuggling would be a huge problem if there are no checks at the border.  ::)

I thought to myself " What the hell are the Irish going to smuggle into the UK..... Potatoes?! " :D  ;D
But if Ireland can get free trade with the EU, and then there is no real border between those Irish borders, its obvious (even that idiot Vine can see it, and he's thick as 2 short planks) some less scrupulous companies are going to use that route to import/export.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #40 on: 09 June 2018, 08:27:16 »

Don't forget that the wrong decision was made in the '70s...
England has done very well out of it. The UK provinces even better.

Not sure if that makes it a mistake  ???.  In the decade follow us in the Common Market, we had the advantage of that and of a strong leader in Maggie, turning this country from a bankrupt, unproductive land into a finacially secure place with opportunities.


But the trash media public have decided, and we must leave (I dont believe in a 2nd ref), and that will be a half cocked, half arsed, abortion of a compromise.  Remember, all the influence within the country doesn't want to leave, they want access to Europe.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #41 on: 09 June 2018, 10:39:58 »

Quote
that will be a half cocked, half arsed, abortion of a compromise.

As Zig Ziglar said, "If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time."

What we lack is the leadership conviction to get this done decisively. A hard Brexit would actually be much better for everyone than this sappy softly softly crap.

If you were getting divorced would rather put the house on the market, get it sold and move on... Or would you prefer to spend six years in court arguing over the Le Creuset pan stand... ::)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #42 on: 09 June 2018, 10:43:27 »

Yes Jeremy Whine commented today that smuggling would be a huge problem if there are no checks at the border.  ::)

I thought to myself " What the hell are the Irish going to smuggle into the UK..... Potatoes?! " :D  ;D
But if Ireland can get free trade with the EU, and then there is no real border between those Irish borders, its obvious (even that idiot Vine can see it, and he's thick as 2 short planks) some less scrupulous companies are going to use that route to import/export.

I doubt companies are going to set up expensive manufacturing facilities in the RoI or route stuff to the UK via Ireland to save an average 3% tariff to be honest.  It might be worthwhile for small portable high value goods that attract a high tariff like diamonds for example, but I can't see it becoming a massive problem.  ::)

Same goes for goods going the other way and given the lack of will from the Irish/EU in finding a solution, we shouldn't worry about their problems.  If they want to erect a hard border let them.  :P

The solutions are there, we just need the political will (mostly from the EU) to find them.  ;)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #43 on: 09 June 2018, 11:28:02 »

Sometimes I am embarrassed to have been to the same Prep School as him...

Not that his leftie opinions would ever suggest he knew what a Prep School is :-X

'Fookin ell'.... ::) ::)

My first school was so rough any boy with two ears was considered to be a shirt lifter. :)

Did go to grammar school later on though. ;)

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #44 on: 09 June 2018, 11:39:31 »

Sometimes I am embarrassed to have been to the same Prep School as him...

Not that his leftie opinions would ever suggest he knew what a Prep School is :-X

'Fookin ell'.... ::) ::)

My first school was so rough any boy with two ears was considered to be a shirt lifter. :)

Did go to grammar school later on though. ;)

 ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #45 on: 09 June 2018, 11:46:25 »

Don't forget that the wrong decision was made in the '70s...
England has done very well out of it. The UK provinces even better.

Not sure if that makes it a mistake  ???In the decade follow us in the Common Market, we had the advantage of that and of a strong leader in Maggie, turning this country from a bankrupt, unproductive land into a finacially secure place with opportunities.


But the trash media public have decided, and we must leave (I dont believe in a 2nd ref), and that will be a half cocked, half arsed, abortion of a compromise.  Remember, all the influence within the country doesn't want to leave, they want access to Europe.


This is true TB, but the Common Market that people voted to stay in back in 1975 has changed drastically with the treaties from Maastrict to Lisbon, changing it from a loose trading association into a single legal entity with all the trappings of a sovereign country and this is what people don't like.  ::)

The effects of the policies that have come with it, particularly mass immigration from Eastern Europe have negatively impacted peoples lives.  A good example of this is a bunch of trades guys I know in South Wales who used to go down to London to work on the construction sites.  They earned very good money, but it's all gone now as the work is being done by immigrants (mostly Romanians apparently) for less than half of what the Welsh guys were getting paid.  Are they trash? Does their opinion count for any less than a middle class corporate white collar type?  ???

When you say that the 'influence' in the country dosn't want to leave, you really mean the establishment ie government, the civil service and big business who have vested interests in keeping us shackled to the EU.  They thought that public opinion would swing into line if they held a referendum and promised immediate armageddon if the people dared to defy them and vote to leave the EU.   ::)  They were wrong!  ;D 

However, the establishment is fighting a hard rearguard action and there are dark forces at work in this country to keep us within the sphere of the EU and they will do this at any cost.  Even if it means reducing this country to an effective colony of the EU where we have to accept all the laws, rules and regulations (including free movement), pay vast sums of money into the EU budget and remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  Yet we will have no MEP's, no EU Commissioner, no Judges sitting at the ECJ, and the PM will not attend meetings of the European Council.  ::) 

It will be governance without representation and there will be nobody within the corridors of the EU fighting for Britain's national interest.  ::)  How anyone can even contemplate such an outcome is utterly beyond me and I have nothing but contempt for them!  >:(
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #46 on: 09 June 2018, 12:01:22 »

The way things are moving it looks as though we will leave the EU but remain within the sphere of the EU. :-\

The 'leave the EU' people voted for and the wishy-washy 'leave the EU' we are likely to have are poles apart.
« Last Edit: 09 June 2018, 12:03:13 by Field Marshal Dr. Opti »
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #47 on: 09 June 2018, 12:15:43 »

I would like to see transcripts of meetings that Michel Barnier has with people like Umunna, Soubry, Adonis, Clarke and Sturgeon when they trot across to Brussels to see him.  :-X

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #48 on: 09 June 2018, 12:26:46 »

Don't forget that the wrong decision was made in the '70s...
England has done very well out of it. The UK provinces even better.

Not sure if that makes it a mistake  ???In the decade follow us in the Common Market, we had the advantage of that and of a strong leader in Maggie, turning this country from a bankrupt, unproductive land into a finacially secure place with opportunities.


But the trash media public have decided, and we must leave (I dont believe in a 2nd ref), and that will be a half cocked, half arsed, abortion of a compromise.  Remember, all the influence within the country doesn't want to leave, they want access to Europe.


This is true TB, but the Common Market that people voted to stay in back in 1975 has changed drastically with the treaties from Maastrict to Lisbon, changing it from a loose trading association into a single legal entity with all the trappings of a sovereign country and this is what people don't like.  ::)

The effects of the policies that have come with it, particularly mass immigration from Eastern Europe have negatively impacted peoples lives.  A good example of this is a bunch of trades guys I know in South Wales who used to go down to London to work on the construction sites.  They earned very good money, but it's all gone now as the work is being done by immigrants (mostly Romanians apparently) for less than half of what the Welsh guys were getting paid.  Are they trash? Does their opinion count for any less than a middle class corporate white collar type?  ???

When you say that the 'influence' in the country dosn't want to leave, you really mean the establishment ie government, the civil service and big business who have vested interests in keeping us shackled to the EU.  They thought that public opinion would swing into line if they held a referendum and promised immediate armageddon if the people dared to defy them and vote to leave the EU.   ::)  They were wrong!  ;D 

However, the establishment is fighting a hard rearguard action and there are dark forces at work in this country to keep us within the sphere of the EU and they will do this at any cost.  Even if it means reducing this country to an effective colony of the EU where we have to accept all the laws, rules and regulations (including free movement), pay vast sums of money into the EU budget and remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  Yet we will have no MEP's, no EU Commissioner, no Judges sitting at the ECJ, and the PM will not attend meetings of the European Council.  ::) 

It will be governance without representation and there will be nobody within the corridors of the EU fighting for Britain's national interest.  ::)  How anyone can even contemplate such an outcome is utterly beyond me and I have nothing but contempt for them!  >:(

Well said that man.


Did anyone see the NINE leaders of the G7 posing for photos today.  One from each of the G7 plus Tusk and Junker to make sure that EU interests were upheld.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #49 on: 09 June 2018, 12:52:34 »

I voted to remain but I don't want to see us 'leave' like a frightened child. Wanting it's independence but scared of truly letting go.

I think we have compromised too much already and have negotiated SFA in return. The EU is giving us a kicking as things stand. :-\
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #50 on: 09 June 2018, 12:54:18 »

David Davis is a jovial old chap but seems out of his depth to me. :-\

........perhaps the skinny inbred 'aristo' Jacob Rees Mogg would be an improvement (or not) ::)
« Last Edit: 09 June 2018, 13:02:14 by Field Marshal Dr. Opti »
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #51 on: 09 June 2018, 13:13:28 »

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? :( :( :( She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom. :y

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane. :o :o :o

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge. :y :y :y

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector. :y :y :y
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #52 on: 09 June 2018, 13:35:01 »

In the words of JC Penny,

"Give me a stock clerk with a goal, and I will give you a man who will make history. Give me a man without a goal, and I will give you a stock clerk."

I think we have identified the crux of the problem... ::)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #53 on: 09 June 2018, 13:42:01 »

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? :( :( :( She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom. :y

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane. :o :o :o

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge. :y :y :y

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector. :y :y :y
To be blunt, the same applies to any UK (including provinces) politicians and civil servants for the past 30 years or more.

Even "a Maggie" would get nowhere nowadays.



DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for this insignificant, wet, gormless island, you need to invade and rule Europe.

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #54 on: 09 June 2018, 13:53:04 »

Brexit was supposed to be so simple.

We dictate  our demands to our 27 European friends and they all agree.


We have our cake and eat it. No compromise required on our part.....and no adverse consequences.


What went wrong? ::)

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #55 on: 09 June 2018, 14:00:54 »

DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for the worlds 5th largest economy and permanent member of the UN Security Council, you need to invade and rule Europe.

Good point TB!  :y
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #56 on: 09 June 2018, 14:01:23 »

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? :( :( :( She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom. :y

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane. :o :o :o

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge. :y :y :y

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector. :y :y :y
To be blunt, the same applies to any UK (including provinces) politicians and civil servants for the past 30 years or more.

Even "a Maggie" would get nowhere nowadays.



DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for this insignificant, wet, gormless island, you need to invade and rule Europe.

ROW outside of the EU have no problems with trading with the EU it is only our politicians that are making it difficult. :( I've exported to Europe pre & post-single market and it made very little difference. There were always much more important things to worry about like making sure we were paid, conforming to each countries' laws as single market rules only totally apply to some large categories of goods like food and cars, correct localization of all text, joint advertising and marketing etc, etc.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #57 on: 09 June 2018, 14:09:39 »

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? :( :( :( She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom. :y

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane. :o :o :o

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge. :y :y :y

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector. :y :y :y
To be blunt, the same applies to any UK (including provinces) politicians and civil servants for the past 30 years or more.

Even "a Maggie" would get nowhere nowadays.



DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for this insignificant, wet, gormless island, you need to invade and rule Europe.

Funny though that the EU steam roller achieves its goals regardless. This despite being supposedly democratic. The dictators are the establishment behind the scenes with their very own real goals. I don't agree at all with your last sentence.  We managed alright between us in Europe when it was a common market. Putting the four freedoms as "strings" is where it went wrong. That and aiming for all EU member states to adopt the Deutschmark Euro. Shame as some of the ideas are very laudable.

It is interesting that two years on there is still very little EU reform though Merkel came out the other day saying that there ought to be some reforms but first the pesky East European countries need to toe the line and take migrants off Italy's hands. Spain has got a sweetener in the form of a 5% increase in funds - no doubt to keep the populists at bay when the Sanchez government (very pro EU) falls in a few months.
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #58 on: 09 June 2018, 14:22:49 »

Poor failing countries in the Euro suit Germany perfectly as it keeps their exports competitively priced. Germany will never agree and do any meaningful reforms to keep the Euro down, but also because the reunification of Germany was deeply resented & costly by the Western part where the 1 to 1 exchange rate for Deutschmarks to East German confetti was wrong. Any German politician that commits to making the Euro work by pooling sovereign bonds and making transfers (which is what you have to do in the absence of relative adjustable exchange rates) to ease Euro stress between rich & poor areas would be committing political suicide. It would make Merkel's politically costly immigrant blunder look like a hiccup. :o :o :o
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #59 on: 09 June 2018, 14:33:48 »

Poor failing countries in the Euro suit Germany perfectly as it keeps their exports competitively priced. Germany will never agree and do any meaningful reforms to keep the Euro down, but also because the reunification of Germany was deeply resented & costly by the Western part where the 1 to 1 exchange rate for Deutschmarks to East German confetti was wrong. Any German politician that commits to making the Euro work by pooling sovereign bonds and making transfers (which is what you have to do in the absence of relative adjustable exchange rates) to ease Euro stress between rich & poor areas would be committing political suicide. It would make Merkel's politically costly immigrant blunder look like a hiccup. :o :o :o

Fortunes were made in East Germany when the wall came down and they converted East German marks to Bundes Marks at the 1:1 exchange rate.  A lot of East Germans blew it on Western goods like Fords, VWs, wide screen TV's etc and a lot of West Germans went east to feed the demand.  ;)

A fews years on many East Germans found themselves as poor as before, but with a rusting Ford outside their crumbling soviet block of flats and the West Germans had gone home with fat wallets!  ::)
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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #60 on: 09 June 2018, 18:22:56 »

Did anyone see the NINE leaders of the G7 posing for photos today.  One from each of the G7 plus Tusk and Junker to make sure that EU interests were upheld.

Yes they looked like a pair of enforcers ensuring that the four elected European leaders toed the EU line.  ::)

Especially the naughty Brits and Italians!  ;D
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JC is not The Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!!

Doctor Gollum

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Re: Brexit.
« Reply #61 on: 09 June 2018, 19:44:03 »

The Italians will do whatever they want. Until they run out of cash, when they will do whatever they want...
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Onanists always think outside the box.
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