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Author Topic: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT  (Read 4960 times)

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terry paget

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Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« on: 30 July 2018, 15:44:29 »

Son Ben's 2.2 petrol manual, despite my welding the cills, has failed MOT on rust in rear suspension, front suspension, also needs new wishbones.

I shall scrap it. I shall keep the catalyst, the tyres and the battery. My local scrappy gave me £30 for the last Omega I scrapped. Is there anything else of value on it?
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #1 on: 30 July 2018, 16:06:50 »

Gearbox and clutch gubbins...

Engine (on subframe) and loom, instrument cluster, ecu, keys, transponder and lock barrels... I know you don't rate the engine, but it has had alot of work and if one of your V6s goes bang, then you can throw it in.

Mine is going on Wednesday for a shade under £200, but is complete.

Scrap car network...
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #2 on: 30 July 2018, 16:08:30 »

If you've got other cars with the same headlights, then I'd probably keep them. Perhaps the rear light clusters and wing mirrors too.

Is the windscreen wiper motor and linkage Ok? I'd be interested in it in exchange for coloured beer tokens with pictures of the queen  :y

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #3 on: 30 July 2018, 16:11:02 »

White isn't a colour :D
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #4 on: 30 July 2018, 16:16:17 »

White isn't a colour :D

You're mistaking me for STEMO and Lord Opti. - Their wallets have pictures of the King.  :D
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Nick W

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #5 on: 30 July 2018, 18:01:08 »

Just give the keys to whoever comes to collect it.
All of those parts you mentioned are cheap service parts, and don't last well in storage even if they survive the handling of removal.


Unless you like having piles of junk, in which case you should break the whole car.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #6 on: 30 July 2018, 19:52:01 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #7 on: 30 July 2018, 19:55:08 »

If you've got other cars with the same headlights, then I'd probably keep them. Perhaps the rear light clusters and wing mirrors too.

Is the windscreen wiper motor and linkage Ok? I'd be interested in it in exchange for coloured beer tokens with pictures of the queen  :y
PM sent.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #8 on: 30 July 2018, 19:56:02 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
Rust, and the front wishbone bushes.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #9 on: 30 July 2018, 20:13:45 »

Chassis rails are becoming quite popular for crusty Ness around the subframe mountings...
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #10 on: 30 July 2018, 22:58:04 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
Rust, and the front wishbone bushes.

But as suggested was it chassis rail? What exactly rusted?
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #11 on: 31 July 2018, 07:43:14 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
Rust, and the front wishbone bushes.

But as suggested was it chassis rail? What exactly rusted?
As per my previous... Also the inside face dissolves where the exhaust leaves the engine bay, rarely checked outside the MoT, and the inner wing rots where it joins the chassis rail along with the reinforcement plates in the same area...

Once they start to get crusty on the outside, the inner layers are as bad...

See Steve's picture in tother thread...
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terry paget

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #12 on: 31 July 2018, 20:03:59 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
Rust, and the front wishbone bushes.

But as suggested was it chassis rail? What exactly rusted?
Today I got the car over my pit and tried to photograph the holes the tester had created, but could not find them. What are chassis rails? If you mean the longitudinal rectangular section tubes, 2 of which run from beneath floor front to rear, they are sound. This tester attacked the car underside with a large pry bar, and succeeded in bashing a couple of holes, one of which was near the o/s suspension turret
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dave the builder

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #13 on: 31 July 2018, 20:22:53 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
Rust, and the front wishbone bushes.

But as suggested was it chassis rail? What exactly rusted?
Today I got the car over my pit and tried to photograph the holes the tester had created, but could not find them. What are chassis rails? If you mean the longitudinal rectangular section tubes, 2 of which run from beneath floor front to rear, they are sound. This tester attacked the car underside with a large pry bar, and succeeded in bashing a couple of holes, one of which was near the o/s suspension turret
NTs are only allowed to use the approved corrosion assessment tool  :o
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-H1MOT-Corrosion-Assessment-Hammer-Vosa-Approved-Tool-Garage-Workshop/302191928532?epid=1923115049&hash=item465c0ae4d4:g:7LwAAOSw5cNYc-hU
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terry paget

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #14 on: 01 August 2018, 08:38:02 »

On the front suspension, what did it fail on?
Rust, and the front wishbone bushes.

But as suggested was it chassis rail? What exactly rusted?
Today I got the car over my pit and tried to photograph the holes the tester had created, but could not find them. What are chassis rails? If you mean the longitudinal rectangular section tubes, 2 of which run from beneath floor front to rear, they are sound. This tester attacked the car underside with a large pry bar, and succeeded in bashing a couple of holes, one of which was near the o/s suspension turret
NTs are only allowed to use the approved corrosion assessment tool  :o
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-H1MOT-Corrosion-Assessment-Hammer-Vosa-Approved-Tool-Garage-Workshop/302191928532?epid=1923115049&hash=item465c0ae4d4:g:7LwAAOSw5cNYc-hU
How do I find the MOT tester rule that states this?
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #15 on: 01 August 2018, 10:13:36 »

Here...

https://www.gov.uk/topic/mot/manuals

Cup of tea and have a peruse... Not that it will repair the car, but it might make you feel better...

Presumably not your usual tester :-\
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #16 on: 01 August 2018, 11:12:02 »

How do I find the MOT tester rule that states this?


I'd like to see your whinge complaint:


TP - The tester exposed the excessive corrosion in a structural area using the wrong tool.


VOSA - Did he? You saw him? We'll have a word. But that doesn't change the fact that your car is too rusty to have an MOT.
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dave the builder

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #17 on: 01 August 2018, 11:29:17 »

If you don't fancy reading all the MOT manual then > Appendix A Structural integrity and corrosion >3 Corrosion assessment

link clicky

however, it is more complex than just quoting one section of the manual

plus, it sounds like the failed car did have quite a bit of rust in prescribed areas etc, and having family members drive around in cars that are swiss cheese and may become dangerous in the 12 month period before next MOT is not a good idea
(particularly as your checking the car BEFORE presenting it for MOT Terry, so, effectively if the NT misses something, and you say it's ok or miss something, then it fails , that family member will remove you from the Christmas card list  :P )

as an example, the Zafira I just checked over, it came with MOT till mid March 2019, the last 2 MOTs are pass,no advisory notices on the printed certificates.
Knowing that family members would be transported at speeds up to 70NPH ,I checked it all over ,decided the brakes looked poor, not maintained, so I stripped, cleaned, fitted new discs and pads, found a brake line badly corroded and it leaked ,so replaced that in it's entirety.
I'd checked the MOT history and it failed 2017 on Nearside Rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Offside Rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c) ,the same day the MOT pass with no advisory notice was issued, so I'd assume the brake pipes had been replaced, yet they where all original.

I spend a lot of time checking the family fleet, to try and ensure all is safe and reliable, it would be much cheaper and less hassle for me to just say "take it to a garage" have them do anything that is needed.
Sadly, SOME garages charge for things they don't actually do, miss things, do jobs badly, some jobs are not part of MOT testing.

so I've developed a lack of trust  :'(
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dave the builder

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #18 on: 01 August 2018, 12:00:11 »

Another helpful video with a few pointers for the future Terry  :y
Repairs and corrosion clicky
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #19 on: 01 August 2018, 12:04:38 »

At the end of the day, if you can poke anything through material in the prescribed areas, it needs fixing.

Would be good to find out where, as it may be an easy fix.
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dave the builder

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #20 on: 01 August 2018, 12:30:00 »

At the end of the day, if you can poke anything through material in the prescribed areas, it needs fixing.

Would be good to find out where, as it may be an easy fix.
Pretty sure i could puncture a brand new cill on a car with a 3 foot long heavy breaker bar  :P
and in my early days of car ownership ,I have seen an MOT tester use a heavy ball pein hammer and excessive force .
BUT , agree that prescribed areas should be strong enough to withstand reasonable probing .

pictures would be good agreed, but it sounds bad from Terry's description

sadly, omegas with long mot are cheap enough to just scrap a failed car and buy another, rather than strip,grind,weld the poorly bits  :(

It was the same with Carltons  and Sennys
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #21 on: 01 August 2018, 12:44:40 »

Pics follow


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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #22 on: 01 August 2018, 13:20:11 »

Pics follow



Front most concerning as that looks difficult/expensive to fix.

Need to double check mine around there as it's looking crusty, although at Serek's it still appeared solid-ish.

Are the black marks your previous attempt at under seal painted on?
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #23 on: 01 August 2018, 14:04:31 »

Pics follow



Front most concerning as that looks difficult/expensive to fix.

Need to double check mine around there as it's looking crusty, although at Serek's it still appeared solid-ish.

Are the black marks your previous attempt at under seal painted on?
Yes. I saw rust, rubbed it down, and undersealed it.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #24 on: 01 August 2018, 14:05:50 »

I expect the front chassis leg inside (near the steering box will be worse)
a classic  area on a Carlton
the rear chassis legs where it goes up to the boot ,again a classic example of Vauxhall rust at it's finest  ::)
painting underseal on the outside does little good, it needed wax-oil inside BEFORE tin worm had a feast

did the garage give a quote on fixing ?

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #25 on: 01 August 2018, 16:18:36 »

Exactly what I suspected/ suggested in my first post :-X

That's the rear mounting, expect the front one to be as bad... Likewise the offside ones.
« Last Edit: 01 August 2018, 16:21:32 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #26 on: 01 August 2018, 16:21:21 »

Hmmm, 'they all go there'!

That strengthening plate is what the engine cradle / subframe fixes to so is particularly important, in all honesty I wouldn't bother with trying to repair that because any repair there is a compromise and that structural weakness in a big frontal accident cannot be a good thing.

They are all showing an issue there, it's how early on you can start dealing with it which will prolong the life of the vehicle.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #27 on: 01 August 2018, 20:45:01 »

I expect the front chassis leg inside (near the steering box will be worse)
a classic  area on a Carlton
the rear chassis legs where it goes up to the boot ,again a classic example of Vauxhall rust at it's finest  ::)
painting underseal on the outside does little good, it needed wax-oil inside BEFORE tin worm had a feast

did the garage give a quote on fixing ?
No, Last year he found rust in the cills of my 3.2 and said he could repair it I enquired at what cost, he said he would let me know. Eventally he charged me told £250 plus VAT. I then bought a welder. I am sure he would have done this car, but it's a 2.2 and rusty. I made it clear that I would scrap it.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #28 on: 01 August 2018, 20:48:54 »

Hmmm, 'they all go there'!

That strengthening plate is what the engine cradle / subframe fixes to so is particularly important, in all honesty I wouldn't bother with trying to repair that because any repair there is a compromise and that structural weakness in a big frontal accident cannot be a good thing.

They are all showing an issue there, it's how early on you can start dealing with it which will prolong the life of the vehicle.

 :( :( :( :(
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #29 on: 01 August 2018, 21:30:02 »

Hmmm, 'they all go there'!

That strengthening plate is what the engine cradle / subframe fixes to so is particularly important, in all honesty I wouldn't bother with trying to repair that because any repair there is a compromise and that structural weakness in a big frontal accident cannot be a good thing.

They are all showing an issue there, it's how early on you can start dealing with it which will prolong the life of the vehicle.




That would involve soaking the interior of the box section with a properly effective rust preventative. About 15 years ago.


That's a multi layer section(which is why it's rusty), that would require removal of the subframe and steering box to even think about repairing it properly. This is the butterfly moment, when an Omega turns from a car into bean tins.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #30 on: 02 August 2018, 09:20:28 »

Thanks to all for advice. Of course I do not want any member of my family to drive around in a structurally dangerous vehicle. However, as recently discussed, only 2% of accidents are caused by vehicle defects, most are caused by driver errors. When my daughter suffered failure of a rear shock absorber turret, she came to no harm. Life is a risky business. I reckon climbing stairs is more dangerous than motoring.

The tester is one I have used for many years. However, he is a one fo 2 partners in a thriving small garage business, and I would not put it past him to fail a car on rust to make work for his body shop. My first cill repair earned him £250. Then I bought a welder and now do my own. On this test he enquired who had done the cills, then set about my car with a pry bar.

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #31 on: 02 August 2018, 11:34:56 »

Time for a new garage then...
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #32 on: 02 August 2018, 12:17:14 »

Time for a new garage then...


One that has never seen the results of an inexperienced welder?
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #33 on: 02 August 2018, 12:30:03 »

Not necessarily... One that won't deliberately attack the car out of spite would be a reasonable choice.  ;)

It's all well and good complaining about an unfair test, but it won't alter the fact that the car now has extra holes in it that it shouldn't have... (as per your dry observation yesterday).

That said, had the areas shown been prepared more thoroughly then the car would probably never have been presented to begin with. One of the reasons my estate has been disposed of... Beyond the failure items, one of the advisories was for front chassis rail corrosion both sides and on closer inspection, both front inner wings were going where they meet the chassis rails.

Whilst it's difficult not to be sentimental about these old buses, most are a very long way from being restoration material and are equally beyond the preservation stage.
« Last Edit: 02 August 2018, 12:42:16 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #34 on: 02 August 2018, 14:46:32 »

Time for a new garage then...


One that has never seen the results of an inexperienced welder?m
The welder was professional, but used my welder on my premises.
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #35 on: 02 August 2018, 15:22:15 »

Explain if you can this n/s wing on X168 a 2.5 high mileage estate bought from a man living on the coast

with this Y118 lower mileage saloon bought in the middle of England

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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #36 on: 02 August 2018, 15:35:01 »

One sat. Damp. And rotted.

The other one got used, dried out by airflow, and didn't.

Would be my guess.. my 300ZX was fine when I put it into (not dry) storage, but after eight years sitting in a domestic garage, not moving, had become quite the rust bucket..
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #37 on: 02 August 2018, 16:46:04 »

Seconded... My 270+k plod was relatively rust free compared to my 150k black Elite which looked like it had been parked in the Manchester shit canal...
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Re: Rusty 2.2 fails MOT
« Reply #38 on: 02 August 2018, 16:47:59 »

Seconded... My 270+k plod was relatively rust free compared to my 150k black Elite which looked like it had been parked in the Manchester shit canal...

Is that Canal Street? ;D :-X ;D
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