Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ronnyd]

Has this been discussed on here before? Booked my Vectra in for one today and the guy, (who also did my Desmond ) says that the cost of the fluid has gone up in price due to EU rationing the amount that can be manufactured to combat climate change. Seems the fluid is very harmful to the environment and if there won,t be enough around some drivers might be disappointed. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Bigron]

Just another excuse to extract more money, on the back of spurious environmental claims.

Ron.

[Entwood]

I'm sure Serek can give us the truth, after all, he does one of the best Air Con services I have ever had !!

[Viral_Jim]

Has this been discussed on here before? Booked my Vectra in for one today and the guy, (who also did my Desmond ) says that the cost of the fluid has gone up in price due to EU rationing the amount that can be manufactured to combat climate change. Seems the fluid is very harmful to the environment and if there won,t be enough around some drivers might be disappointed. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Sounds like total bobbins to me. I mean, why wouldn't they buy it from outside the EU, if that were true.

Depending on when you last had your Aircon serviced, it could cost more as the value of the pound is down now compared to 2-3yrs ago. But even then, the cost of the fluid is unlikely to be a massive percentage of the total cost of the work.

Overall, sounds like s load of sh!te to me.

[Andy H]

Has this been discussed on here before? Booked my Vectra in for one today and the guy, (who also did my Desmond ) says that the cost of the fluid has gone up in price due to EU rationing the amount that can be manufactured to combat climate change. Seems the fluid is very harmful to the environment and if there won,t be enough around some drivers might be disappointed. Anyone else have any thoughts?

He's correct. Search for "F-Gas regulations" and "R134a phase down"

R134a is being rationed now and the price is shooting up.

The newest cars are using a gas called R1234yf.

[Doctor Gollum]

Happened last year as well.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Yup, the price of a/c gas more than doubled about a year ago.

[Bigron]

But that notwithstanding, surely the cost of the gas is trivial compared to the cost of labour, etc? My BS detector is still buzzing loudly!

Ron.

[Nick W]

But that notwithstanding, surely the cost of the gas is trivial compared to the cost of labour, etc? My BS detector is still buzzing loudly!

Ron.

labour time is only a few minutes, the mechanic can do other stuff while the machine does its thing. The machine is expensive to buy/rent and the gas is even more so.

[Bigron]

Understood, Nick; but DO they charge only a few minutes labour? I'm sure they would charge waiting time as they must "supervise" the operation, which also includes vacuuming out the system, etc.
Do I trust garages? Nope - apart from Serek, of course.

Ron.

[henryd]

But that notwithstanding, surely the cost of the gas is trivial compared to the cost of labour, etc? My BS detector is still buzzing loudly!

Ron.

labour time is only a few minutes, the mechanic can do other stuff while the machine does its thing. The machine is expensive to buy/rent and the gas is even more so.

As above
,time matters not as most machines are fully automatic for refilling(if no issues) but price of gas is going through the roof so prices will go up

[Sir Tigger KC]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

[Lizzie Zoom]

Just another cost in keeping our beloved Omega's going!

Still, I believe the costs are still better than buying a new, boring, car once depreciation, tax, and all the other costs are taken in to account.

Miss not having "free" company cars though every two years.  That is the way to have a car!!

[Doctor Gollum]

Just another cost in keeping our beloved Omega's going!

Still, I believe the costs are still better than buying a new, boring, car once depreciation, tax, and all the other costs are taken in to account.

Miss not having "free" company cars though every two years.  That is the way to have a car!!

Not an exclusive Omega problem but one that affects a large percentage of cars over time

[Kevin Wood]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

.. as is not having a roof.

(recalls the big folder full of Westfield receipts)

OK, I lied.

[Doctor Gollum]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

.. as is not having a roof.

(recalls the big folder full of Westfield receipts)

OK, I lied.

When the top goes down, the price goes up.

No top is obviously worth more

[Sir Tigger KC]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

[Lizzie Zoom]

Just another cost in keeping our beloved Omega's going!

Still, I believe the costs are still better than buying a new, boring, car once depreciation, tax, and all the other costs are taken in to account.

Miss not having "free" company cars though every two years.  That is the way to have a car!!

Not an exclusive Omega problem but one that affects a large percentage of cars over time

That is what I do not understand DG.  What are the differences between the various AC gases?  Why is the one for Omega's 'special' enough to become "rationed" and thus more expensive?  Cannot another gas be used in our Miggy's? 

[Doctor Gollum]

Not an Omega specific item by any stretch of the imagination.

R134a replaced R12 through the late '80s/early '90s.

Stands to reason that 30 years later R134a should be replaced.

As to the second question, in theory yes. Provided the seals are compatible or have been replaced with ones that are.

Whether this is cost effective or not on a 20 year old Vauxhall is a very different question.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Not an Omega specific item by any stretch of the imagination.

R134a replaced R12 through the late '80s/early '90s.

Stands to reason that 30 years later R134a should be replaced.

As to the second question, in theory yes. Provided the seals are compatible or have been replaced with ones that are.

Whether this is cost effective or not on a 20 year old Vauxhall is a very different question.

Thanks for that DG

Over the last three years I have replaced the A/C condenser and compressor, with it all being done by a VX main dealer.  I will have to enquire what gas they put in, and the seals used, as this year it is due to be replaced.

[Doctor Gollum]

There are various seals throughout the system, including at the evaporator behind the dash...

[Lizzie Zoom]

There are various seals throughout the system, including at the evaporator behind the dash...

Ok

[BazaJT]

Never knew you had to replace refrigerant on a time basis.Only car I've had with working aircon was the XJ6 and I didn't have that replaced in 8yrs of ownership.Glad it doesn't work on the Omega...that's another expense spared

[Lizzie Zoom]

Never knew you had to replace refrigerant on a time basis.Only car I've had with working aircon was the XJ6 and I didn't have that replaced in 8yrs of ownership.Glad it doesn't work on the Omega...that's another expense spared

The information I have had for some years now, gained on the OOF, is that the a/c gas losses 10% of it's ability to do it's job every year. I have also experienced the affects of a car that has not had a gas replacement for 5 years. It is very infective!

[Doctor Gollum]

The system is deemed sealed if it contains loses of upto 10% per year. Some cars will hold it for longer. Aircon systems are generally aluminium which can become porous over time.

[STEMO]

My astra is 5 years old, never had a regas, and is very cold.

[TheBoy]

My astra is 5 years old, never had a regas, and is very cold.

A new car is normally good for approaching 10yrs.  But as the system ages, it loses it more quickly.

[ronnyd]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

Exactly! 

Imagine following Uncle STEMO down the M62 when he's got the windows open?!   

[STEMO]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

Exactly! 

Imagine following Uncle STEMO down the M62 when he's got the windows open?!   

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I doubt you'd be able to keep up. 

[ronnyd]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

Exactly! 

Imagine following Uncle STEMO down the M62 when he's got the windows open?!   

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I doubt you'd be able to keep up. 

Oil burning Astra,. Hmmm

[dave the builder]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

Exactly! 

Imagine following Uncle STEMO down the M62 when he's got the windows open?!   

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I doubt you'd be able to keep up. 

Oil burning Astra,. Hmmm

The coal dust from astra (tractor juice edition) clogs the intake on any cars behind ,slowing them to a stall 

[ronnyd]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

Exactly! 

Imagine following Uncle STEMO down the M62 when he's got the windows open?!   

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I doubt you'd be able to keep up. 

Oil burning Astra,. Hmmm

The coal dust from astra (tractor juice edition) clogs the intake on any cars behind ,slowing them to a stall 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Opening the windows is free! 

So far....   

Actually scrap that as I'm sure that there will be an EU Directive along soon decreeing that windows must be fully closed when a vehicle is travelling over 15 kmh for fuel saving and air quality purposes!   

Do you mean to keep all the "old man" fart smells in?

Exactly! 

Imagine following Uncle STEMO down the M62 when he's got the windows open?!   

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I doubt you'd be able to keep up. 

Oil burning Astra,. Hmmm

The coal dust from astra (tractor juice edition) clogs the intake on any cars behind ,slowing them to a stall 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZe7EPMTwSA   

[ronnyd]

Bet the neighbours love him.

[biggriffin]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

I could be wrong but I don't think F-gas is compatible with R-134.  Also to use F-gas and that other new one you need to be trained and I think registered.

[Andy H]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

I could be wrong but I don't think F-gas is compatible with R-134.  Also to use F-gas and that other new one you need to be trained and I think registered.

F-gas is a blanket term that covers all fluorinated greenhouse gases.

There are hundreds of different refrigerant gases - each with different characteristics. As well as requiring different lubricating oils and seals the refrigerants operate at different pressures to achieve the temperatures useful for air conditioning.

Each refrigerant is given a global warming potential (GWP) - a number that indicates how damaging it is in comparison to CO2

          GWP
R12 = 10900
R22 = 1810
R134a = 1340
R1234yf = 4

The first ones to be phased out were the ones with the highest GWP.

[LC0112G]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

Ooooh - does that mean that pale blue cylinder under the worktop in the man cave is going to make me rich :-)

[biggriffin]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

Ooooh - does that mean that pale blue cylinder under the worktop in the man cave is going to make me rich :-)

It could do if the shortage continues, now if you had some R12 stashed.

[LC0112G]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

Ooooh - does that mean that pale blue cylinder under the worktop in the man cave is going to make me rich :-)

It could do if the shortage continues, now if you had some R12 stashed.

You mean that maroon/red cylinder under the other bench :-)

[STEMO]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

Ooooh - does that mean that pale blue cylinder under the worktop in the man cave is going to make me rich :-)

It could do if the shortage continues, now if you had some R12 stashed.

You mean that maroon/red cylinder under the other bench :-)

Should the anti terrorist squad be looking in on you, Malcolm? 

[biggriffin]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

Ooooh - does that mean that pale blue cylinder under the worktop in the man cave is going to make me rich :-)

It could do if the shortage continues, now if you had some R12 stashed.

You mean that maroon/red cylinder under the other bench :-)

There could be a few Carlton owners who might vist you, do you have a set of gauges and a vac pump.If so get filling.  R12 was sooo much better then 134.

[LC0112G]

Only two factories make r134, they both shut for repairs at the same time, hence the world shortage, which in turn doubled the price,..

Ooooh - does that mean that pale blue cylinder under the worktop in the man cave is going to make me rich :-)

It could do if the shortage continues, now if you had some R12 stashed.

You mean that maroon/red cylinder under the other bench :-)

There could be a few Carlton owners who might vist you, do you have a set of gauges and a vac pump.If so get filling.  R12 was sooo much better then 134.

Yep - got all the stuff, but no tick in any box, or piece of paper to say I'm allowed to do anything. Carltons and Sennys are 100% R134a compatible anyway. I self converted mine over 10 years ago, and still going strong.

[Marks DTM Calib]

R134a is about £35-40 a Kg at the moment, it used to be about a fiver, so the cost of an aircon service will have increased but, shouldn't have gone up by much more than £35