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[zirk]

Anybody who ever thought we would get a reasonable deal is living in cuckoo land, they are clearly the same who believed the shite on the side of a bus.

We do need some sort of deal, I strongly believe that a crash out would hurt us to much and would take decades to recover (if ever)

Problem is, is our wonderful MPs who are now supposedly in control, and who as you rightly say are living in Cuckoo Land, believe they can get that so called Brilliant Deal on the 11th Hour, despite Brussels constantly trying explain otherwise, or is it just a case of trying to bring the Government down, or do they really believe they can attempt to turn the clock back and cancel Brexit.

[Varche]

We are a nation of spineless people frightened of their own shadows. We deserve to be a subset of the great Euro project paying for the East of Europe to be developed so they can buy German products.

In a way I hope we do remain ( not that a single Remainer has ever said under what terms - they dont care) we will review how it worked out every ten years. I wonder how loud we will whinge when we are outvoted on the majority vote time after time. Still so long as we are back in the nest that is all that matters.

Whatever happens great damage has been done to the country which will take decades to recover from. The Spineless idiots across all the parties in Parliament share a huge responsibility for that especially Theresa May .

[Doctor Gollum]

If a hard Brexit had been embraced from the get go, we would be in a much stronger position than we are now...

Two years of no defined plan or leadership is what has led us to the current wishy washy mess and it is this uncertainty which has done the damage.

It will take several years to recover from whatever happens next, so we might as well leave properly and move forward.

Staying is likely to be no easier, and is likely to be far more damaging in the long run. Imho.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

......and we will save 39 billion......or thirty nine thousand million if you prefer.

Well heres an idea, we could put that towards the NHS. 

Added to the 350 million each week from the 'Boris Bus' and the NHS will be set for life.....

It still wouldn't be enough. All the money in the world wouldn't be enough. Brown more than doubled the NHS budget and it ended up worse.
TB is right. It needs tearing down and starting again from scratch.

[Marks DTM Calib]

If a hard Brexit had been embraced from the get go, we would be in a much stronger position than we are now...

Two years of no defined plan or leadership is what has led us to the current wishy washy mess and it is this uncertainty which has done the damage.

It will take several years to recover from whatever happens next, so we might as well leave properly and move forward.

Staying is likely to be no easier, and is likely to be far more damaging in the long run. Imho.

I suspect a hard Brexit from the get go would have made jot all difference as what we get is but a tiny factor in the needs of Europe.

Europe only what to make sure its difficult and very very painful to make sure no others follow suite.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I listened to Nigel Lawson speaking on the wireless yesterday. He said that Hammond is a clueless waste of space who is way out of his depth as Chancellor.
He then spoke about a" no deal Brexit" (actually a false label), and said that it was nothing to be afraid of. It wouldnt cause any great problems at all, but would actually present great opportunities for the UK.
Anyone who claimed different either does so to perpetuate project fear, or hasnt got a clue what they are talking about. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

I listened to Nigel Lawson speaking on the wireless yesterday. He said that Hammond is a clueless waste of space who is way out of his depth as Chancellor.
He then spoke about a" no deal Brexit" (actually a false label), and said that it was nothing to be afraid of. It wouldnt cause any great problems at all, but would actually present great opportunities for the UK.
Anyone who claimed different either does so to perpetuate project fear, or hasnt got a clue what they are talking about. 

I for one can see immediate issues with import/export for Europe with no deal, the mere Trade Tariff overhead would impact, the uncertainty of sending experts to the mainland to support in a working environment, the potential loss of willing low cost labour (unlike the unwilling residential labour).

I could state that those who think that a no deal Brexit wont hurt have never been exposed to the real world operations of industry (Nigel Lawson being a great example!)

[Varche]

I listened to Nigel Lawson speaking on the wireless yesterday. He said that Hammond is a clueless waste of space who is way out of his depth as Chancellor.
He then spoke about a" no deal Brexit" (actually a false label), and said that it was nothing to be afraid of. It wouldnt cause any great problems at all, but would actually present great opportunities for the UK.
Anyone who claimed different either does so to perpetuate project fear, or hasnt got a clue what they are talking about. 

I for one can see immediate issues with import/export for Europe with no deal, the mere Trade Tariff overhead would impact, the uncertainty of sending experts to the mainland to support in a working environment, the potential loss of willing low cost labour (unlike the unwilling residential labour).

I could state that those who think that a no deal Brexit wont hurt have never been exposed to the real world operations of industry (Nigel Lawson being a great example!)

here is a real life example of a willing Spanish worker aged 55. hasn't had a proper job for ten years. Could easily get one by going to England as many of her friends have but how does that work for her family. Her friends go to the Uk and can get a job at the drop of a hat despite your unemployment ONLY being 4% She is currently on a training scheme to be a lawyers assistant but today has the choice of having her meagre benefits docked if she does not go to a job interview which she won't get OR take the course exam and still not be able to get work afterwards. After ten years unemployment is still dire here in Spain. You do not see any young people anymore as they are working abroad or seasonally in the tourist trade on the Costas. So post Brexit there will still be plenty of low cost labour just might not be possible to employ it.

No one would say that there wouldn't be short term operating issues. Life goes on. Good companies and Business secretaries would adapt. That is what all good companies do. I could give you loads of examples but car industry will suffice. Diesel and petrol pollute so they stop making them and go electric


You are right about the EU politicians making damned sure that the leaving for any member state would be impossible or at best hard.. Lets just rollover and rejoin with our tails between our legs and stand in the corner for the next ten years with a dunces cap on. 

[Kevin Wood]

I reckon if we were to "roll over and rejoin" we'd find that EU membership is not business as usual after this mess.

[Olympia5776]

If, by some miracle , we did exit on a no deal platform then we certainly wouldn't be the only country to feel any immediate discomfort.
Uk recently announced the tarrifs that would be applied to Irish dairy and meat products ,and they were significant. The effect on farmers would be almost catastrophic over here as the farmers union have warned.
The supreme irony is that the ROI would be forced to ensure that no UK products were allowed into an EU state by means of .....border control .
UK  would just need to sit back and watch the country implode.
Varadker is a central player in all of this debacle , and he and this country are enjoying every nanosecond.
I watch with great interest.

[Migalot]

Most UK busnesses are already prepared for a no deal WTO scenario. Indeed, HMRC have been sending out letters for the past few months telling VAT-registered people what to do in the evnt of a no deal. Likewise, the EU announced that they had finished preparations for no deal.

The worst case scenario, thhough, is May's WA. As Steven Woolfe MEP tweeted tonight (in response to a Nadine Dorries tweet):

"Nadine I'm here in the EU parliament where everybody asks "why do British MPs think the WA is leaving the EU when we have taken control of the UK through it" The WA is soft remain and can never be described as leaving. Just info for you "

Also, her extension appears to have run into legal difficulties. This evening it has been reported that former Court of Appeal judge Sir Richard Aikens has said. “The way the government has acted...is, at the least, highly unsatisfactory. It must be arguable that the government has acted illegally.”

UPDATE (seen elsewhere)** Sir Bill Cash and the actual ERG's solicitors have sent to PM pointing out that at the moment it is illegal to extend Art 50 so we must leave on 29th March with No Deal.

May is a clown who, together with Olly Robbins, has made this country a laughing stock. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

They are all bloody clowns, it just so happens that May is in the seat at the moment.......it would be no different with any other there.

One of the issues we currently face, as well as the import/export to Euroland, is approvals. If you are n EU member and approve your product to EU standards then certain countries exempt you from local approvals (South Korea is an example, but there are many). If you are not an EU member than all bets are off....

[Sir Tigger KC]

I don't think you'll have to worry about such difficulties Mark, as sadly our MP's seem hell bent on reducing this country to a state of affairs where we will be a mere province of the EU. 

If I was cynical, I might think that big business have been showering Westminster with brown envelopes. 

[Varche]

They are all bloody clowns, it just so happens that May is in the seat at the moment.......it would be no different with any other there.

One of the issues we currently face, as well as the import/export to Euroland, is approvals. If you are n EU member and approve your product to EU standards then certain countries exempt you from local approvals (South Korea is an example, but there are many). If you are not an EU member than all bets are off....

Can't disagree with you there. However one thing we are good at as a country (or we were before we became spineless frightened chickens) is sorting out stuff like that. Despite self proclaimed protestations about us being an insignificant country , we are not we are 5th or 6th in the world.  What it boils down to in the end is a bit of effort , uncertainty for a while, a degree of turmoil and being in control of our own country OR certainty, continuing good times, the pound improving which will help pensioner expats no end, and being part of a federal Europe run by Euroland with Poundland being insignificant.  The latter is what I always expected from the day of the vote. 


I cannot remember who said it but "May's deal is worse than staying in the EU."

[Andy H]

They are all bloody clowns, it just so happens that May is in the seat at the moment.......it would be no different with any other there.

One of the issues we currently face, as well as the import/export to Euroland, is approvals. If you are n EU member and approve your product to EU standards then certain countries exempt you from local approvals (South Korea is an example, but there are many). If you are not an EU member than all bets are off....

So to sell products in the EU a UK company has to gain EU approvals (CE mark). There are various bodies across the EU that can grant approval, this costs money. The EU approval is recognised in certain other countries (this is a "good thing")

After brexit to sell products in the EU a UK company has to gain EU approvals (CE mark). There are various bodies across the EU that can grant approval, this costs money. The EU approval is recognised in certain other countries (this is a "good thing").

What's changed?

The danger lies in how comprehensively the negotiators screw things up after brexit.

Approval bodies in the UK (eg BSI) will have grief if the EU want to cause grief but there is no technical reason why this should happen.