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[Marks DTM Calib]

At least they could fault find down to component level. Valves were expensive enough that you didn't just replace all the electronics in the box and hope for the best.

Same with cars. How many "mechanics" know how to change the seals on a brake caliper these days?

Depends who you get.....

Titles are a very abused thing....I can do most things on a car but I do not have anything that says I am a mechanic.......I can lay bricks but have nothing to say I am a bricklayer.....and hence I dont describe myself as either...

So why do people call themselves engineers.....when they are not..........

[Martin_1962]

At least they could fault find down to component level. Valves were expensive enough that you didn't just replace all the electronics in the box and hope for the best.

Same with cars. How many "mechanics" know how to change the seals on a brake caliper these days?

Depends who you get.....

Titles are a very abused thing....I can do most things on a car but I do not have anything that says I am a mechanic.......I can lay bricks but have nothing to say I am a bricklayer.....and hence I dont describe myself as either...

So why do people call themselves engineers.....when they are not..........

I've been told I should be called a software engineer due to the type of software I write, no official qualifications but nearly 20 years experience

[TheBoy]

I've been told I should be called a software engineer due to the type of software I write

I fail to see how anyone who programs can in any way be called an engineer.  So, in my book, a 'software engineer' is one of those idiotty job descriptions given by companies that are full of pillocks playing w@nk word bingo.  

[MaxV6]

I've been told I should be called a software engineer due to the type of software I write

I fail to see how anyone who programs can in any way be called an engineer.  So, in my book, a 'software engineer' is one of those idiotty job descriptions given by companies that are full of pillocks playing w@nk word bingo.  

while i might somewhat agree that companies and industry do sometimes take diabolical liberties with titles.....   I have to differ on the particular point in there.....

errr  C++ embedded code, or equivalent,   is a major part of any Electronics ENGINEERING degree course.  

indeed the design of logic systems for digital electronics is rooted in precisely the same basic tenets of engineering principles as software only products.  the same logic design , purely differing in where the code ends up being implemented, , a series of discrete devices, a more complex embedded device, or a computer... which, is really only a whole bunch of embedded and/or discrete,  devices stuck together with a fancy human interfacing system . Modern Electronics engineering graduates are indeed possibly more programmer than hands on engineer in some cases... Digital systems and DSP / VLSI design being one point of skills crossover where the distinction can be very blurred indeed.  The hardware guys will usually have some vague clue about analogue systems, but that's about the only way to tell....  

many core code systems within a software framework are referred to as engines, as they power multiple services and procedures within that frame work.

An Engine however need not be a motive power plant, but the definition can be made to cover  any device made to industrialise a process.....  

as such code can indeed be engineered.



An Engineer is someone who takes the wild flights of fancy of the theoretical research scientist, and then actually makes it work, and , with any luck, do something useful.


the appliance of science, to rip off a phrase.

it matters not whether it's mechanical, optical, sonic, electronic, or logic...    

(well, I'd be a little worried about crossing a bridge built entirely by some  software engineers i know, but you take my point I hope....      )


Max

[Kevin Wood]

An Engineer is someone who takes the wild flights of fancy of the theoretical research scientist, and then actually makes it work, and , with any luck, do something useful.

Couldn't agree more. More and more stuff that was done by electron herding is going into software now too, and the principles are largely the same. Subsitiute breadboard for keyboard.

It does get on my goat when people phone "engineers" to fix their washing machine though.

Kevin

[TheBoy]

I've been told I should be called a software engineer due to the type of software I write

I fail to see how anyone who programs can in any way be called an engineer.  So, in my book, a 'software engineer' is one of those idiotty job descriptions given by companies that are full of pillocks playing w@nk word bingo.  

while i might somewhat agree that companies and industry do sometimes take diabolical liberties with titles.....   I have to differ on the particular point in there.....

errr  C++ embedded code, or equivalent,   is a major part of any Electronics ENGINEERING degree course.  

indeed the design of logic systems for digital electronics is rooted in precisely the same basic tenets of engineering principles as software only products.  the same logic design , purely differing in where the code ends up being implemented, , a series of discrete devices, a more complex embedded device, or a computer... which, is really only a whole bunch of embedded and/or discrete,  devices stuck together with a fancy human interfacing system . Modern Electronics engineering graduates are indeed possibly more programmer than hands on engineer in some cases... Digital systems and DSP / VLSI design being one point of skills crossover where the distinction can be very blurred indeed.  The hardware guys will usually have some vague clue about analogue systems, but that's about the only way to tell....  

many core code systems within a software framework are referred to as engines, as they power multiple services and procedures within that frame work.

An Engine however need not be a motive power plant, but the definition can be made to cover  any device made to industrialise a process.....  

as such code can indeed be engineered.



An Engineer is someone who takes the wild flights of fancy of the theoretical research scientist, and then actually makes it work, and , with any luck, do something useful.


the appliance of science, to rip off a phrase.

it matters not whether it's mechanical, optical, sonic, electronic, or logic...    

(well, I'd be a little worried about crossing a bridge built entirely by some  software engineers i know, but you take my point I hope....      )


Max

Sorry, yes I was generalising to desktop and midrange software apps.

Embedded (C++? Surely assembler should be the langauge of choice ) and PIC type apps I would class as coming into software engineering.

[STMO123]

We live about 2 miles from Emley moor transmitter. I get perfect reception on the portables upstairs (digital and analogue) with a.........pound shop serial

[Nickbat]

We live about 2 miles from Emley moor transmitter. I get perfect reception on the portables upstairs (digital and analogue) with a.........pound shop serial

Just 2 miles? I reckon you could a signal using an old KitKat wrapper!  

[Kevin Wood]

An ex-colleague of mine used to live directly under the Hannington TV transmitter. About 6 months after he moved in he decided to find out why his video hadn't worked since. He found neither the TV nor the video had been connected to an aerial or each other. The tv was working quite happily with no aerial whatsoever.

I'm not sure if he successfully procreated after living in that sort of field strength but it puts the hysteria about mobile phone masts into perspective!

Kevin

[Ronald_McBurger]

Its all a lod of 'dangle berries'. What you need is a digital chimney fitted by a kwik fit engineer who can also sort out Max's leaky engine and my gearbox.

There. problem solved. NURSE!!!!! quick.........

[Martin_1962]

Well my official job is senior programmer analyst, I have two junior programmers, and sideways from me a technical director I think - well he is not in charge of me but in charge of the team, he just says what needs doing.

We have it quite well sorted, I do all the database design and almost most of the non GUI VO2.7 code - also all of the legacy Clipper code, some MS C, and quite a bit of other stuff. The boss does the optimiser C code, the TD does the C to VC++ conversion, interactive shape design and the builds. The two juniors do most of the GUI and report writing.

I may be reording header files for both DOS and Windows environments and adjusting the source arrays from the Xbase languages to match, then next adding in a new pricing system, or adding  afew new files to the database.

We do a full blown order entry and production system including machine control

[Nickbat]

Its all a lod of 'dangle berries'. What you need is a digital chimney fitted by a kwik fit engineer who can also sort out Max's leaky engine and my gearbox.

There. problem solved. NURSE!!!!! quick.........

Hmmm, not sure about that as I have an analogue fireplace.

[MaxV6]

that's alright, decent high sample rate A/D converters run pretty hot anyway...

[Marks DTM Calib]

There is aof course no such thing as digital.....this is merely an assumption to simplify things....which can all to often backfire on the designer if he forgets this.

As for Electronics degrees and programming....yes ther is some and it includes assembler and machine code in an attempt to get the under-grad to understand micro architectures.....but, it only accounts for 4 or so modules out of....around 36+!

[Ghosts in my machine]

Apparently there are 4 levels/categories of job position:

Scientist - He/she who invents a new technology/method of doing something.
Engineer - He/she who designs an application for that technology/method.
Technician - He/she who keeps that application running, installs it, builds it etc.
Operative - He/she who uses the application.

These descriptions should apply to almost every job you can do, which is why I think a lot of jobs get titled "Engineer".

Someone who installs a TV aerial is clearly a Technician. The guy who designed the aerial is the Engineer. Although, someone who has been taught the "science" behind Rf to the point where they could design a system, but happens to fit aerials could well be an engineer.

Surely though this means that the description "Domestic Engineer", should actually read "Domestic Technician", while most blokes would class as "Operative" in this case. [smiley=grin.gif]