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[djx]

ok i done a lot of work on this car and feel im so close that i dont want to give up now. basically i changed the engine in the car (2.5 v6) and the car starts and runs BUT, there is a quite loud clicking noise at the top of the engine. if you put your hand on the plenum while its runnig then you can feel as though something is hitting it inside. it also sounds like it is misfiring slightly. the noise does seem to drop off a bit and idle smoother as the car gets warmer. i have taken the plenum off today and pulled the two purple relays in the engine bay fuse box now when i turn the car over you can here it pop back up one of the inlet manifold tubes, number 4 i think.   i have borrowed the timing kit of someone on here and its as good as its ever going to be so i dont think its timing. its also had new plugs and leads.

the eml light is on constantly and the codes given are

12 (start of test)
21 (throttle position sensor - high voltage)
31 (crank sensor)
57 (idle speed control valve - interuption)
94 (hall effect sensor - high voltage)
129 (this isnt in the topbuzz list but someone said it was the egr valve i think)
145 (immobilizer - incorrect signal recieved)

im not sure whats causing these problems but there are no plugs disconnected that i can see

[TheBoy]

Is battery voltage as expected  - lot of fault codes can sometimes be overvoltage due to knackered regulator.  Also, one fault code can lead to another to erroneously appear.

Strangely I had a 129 earlier today, so I know it is 'EGR feedback low voltage' (advantage of owning a real tech2 ) - in my case, I'd had ignition on fixing something else, and had left egr off.

[RonaldMcBurger]

pop the plenum back off and you will find one of the 6 'O' rings has come out of its groove. Laidback and I know this sound very well!

Will also effect EGR pressure, idle control and TPS because there is a major vacuum loss.

Will probably sort it all in one go.

[djx]

you sure!!!! even with the plenum off its popping back up the inlet!!!

can you give me the part numbers for the 6 seals so i can get the right ones, how much are they likely to cost , thinking about it that plenum has been on and off about 30million times in the past few months.

ps. ronnie, this is still part of the problems from when i phoned you months ago, john.

[djx]

anyone got any other ideas. ??  im reallyreally stuck and cant get new seals until tuesday/wednesday anyway

[hotel21]

Mistimed?  Not anywhere near an expert on these engines, but, possibly, if belt and timing disturbed on the rebuild if the timing is a bit out then the metalic noise may be a valve/piston kiss?  If so, definately not a good thing.....

Could also explain why pop and such back out inlets.

Is it in time with engine revs?  Try removing auxiliary belt to see if the noise goes away whilst running.  If it does, you narrow down the source.

Check easy first.....  Others suggest O rings etc from experience.  Thats a cheap and relatively easy solution.  If its timing, again, relatively easy to sort with the correct timing gear, easily borrowed/hired from several peeps on here.

As always, eliminate what you can then work steadily to a conclusion.  Above all, don't jump feet and head into worst case without exploring the easy with a calm head.....

[djx]

good question about it being in time with the engine revs, NO IT DEFINETLY ISNT.  its completly as it feels, just random, but more so when cold and less noisy, but still there when warm. like you said, changing the seals is cheap so im doing that as soon as i get some, (next day or so)

[hotel21]

I'm not trying to be wide here, but you say definately not in time with engine revs.  To be sure, if you manually increase the revs at the butterfly (where the cable attaches at the left front of the plenum, assuming not fly by wire) does the noise also increase?  If it stays constant despite the increase in revs, then I'm a tad stumped!!  

If its a random noise, does the 'randomness' increase if the engines at a fast idle?

I think I would be looking at something loose thats driven from the aux belt (alternator, power steering pump whatever) unless I'm completely missing the crux of your post.....

What about the EGR valve?  Try making up a tin can blank and fitting it, in case your clicking noise is actually HP exhaust gasses moving around.  Again, not enough experience of these systems (yet) but always willing to give things a wee explore!!  

[Matchless]

Throttle position high voltage suggests a bad connection to the TPS or missing earth. Combined with all the other codes I would double check the multi-way connectors next to the battery, the ECU connector and all the earths.

Did you swap for an engine of the same date? (late sensors on an early ecu etc)

Also check the alternator output voltage, if it is too high then you can get false error codes.

[djx]

it is a 1994 engine in a 1998 car, not ideal i know but in a rush to do the job the knock sensor wires were cut and spliced due to different shaped plugs. if i put my hand on the plenumroughly over cylinder3 (which is where the inlet for cylinder 4 is) then it feels like something is hiting it everytime i hear the click, its deffo related to the inlet/cylinder area rather than pulleys or the front of the engine.

the multiway connectors are fine and i will double check the only earth i disturbed when doing it (the one to the engine itself.


would early sensors on a later ecu make a difference as i think i still have the original sensor that i took off the 1998 engine before the tat man took it.

[RonaldMcBurger]

Right. Back to basics here, so a lot more info needed John. Forget about the plenum seals. If you have 6 and they are undamaged, use them.

What is the history of this engine? Is it the same one you did the cambelt on before or is this the replacement? What have you done to this engine EXACTLY?

Without the info, it sounds like a valve guide. But it could be anything until I get as much info as you can give.

The crank sensor won't cause this problem. If you have spliced the wires it will either work or not. It won't cause this problem, it would limit the revs thats all.

I hate to ask, but if this is the replacement engine, did you hear it running before fitting?

[djx]

this is the replacement engine, the original one got chucked. it was ran around by my brother in law for about 6 months before i took it off him and it was running perfectly. i took the engine out, done the headgaskets, new cambelt kit inc roller,etc. the put it all back in.

it starts first turn of the key, but it has the symptoms of backfiring into the inlet manifold. although its not constant with the engine revs and this is what confuses me. i have checked the timing and im gonna take some pics in a bit and post them on here so you can see where the marks are. i might be wrong but it only appears to do this out ofnumber 4 cylinder and when you put you hand on the plenum during the first couple of minutes of running it is definetly a damn sight warmer on the side nearer the egr than it is on the iscv side.

i have managed to get some seals today from vx, is ti worth me fitting them yet and trying or not, john.

[hotel21]

Timing checked and spot on, so not a tooth out.

Do the seals first, its the easiest and quickest.

An off the wall observation which could well be miles off the mark.

When you done the rocker gaskets, you accidentally left something inside (dropped nut, screw or similar) which is fouling on one of the valves, giving the clicking noise and preventing the valve operating correctly, hence the popping/overheat.  Or the valve is spring/coil bound, valve collets jumped out slightly? Relatively easy to investigate once the cover is off.

Dunno what the more experienced on here think of these more 'exotic' solutions, but have certainly experienced them over the past years on very much less exotic, more agricultural engines!!

HtH

B

[djx]

been out there for an hour tonight, the plenums off, the upper inlet is off and the 2-4-6 bank rocker cover is off. there is nothing in the top of the cylinder head and i have had a magnet pen inside the cylinders and nothing is inside them either so i can now rule that out. i have turned the car over as it is and it pops out from all three cylinder on that side. if i take any one of the spark plug out (so no compression)then it doesnt pop from that cylinder. if i take all three out then it doesnt pop at all. the 1-3-5 bank sounds perfectly normal so im ignoring that completely for the moment. now, fom my knowledge i would say one of the cams is slightly out even though i have set the timing again, its too dark to do this again tonight so im gonna have a crack tommorrow again when i get back from work. also i have a high power led light which i shined down the inlet tract while each set of inlet valves were closed, i peered into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and i could see no light at all, not very scientific i know but i think as best i can that the inlet valves are seating correctly and none are bent. obviously i cant do this with the exhaust valves but as its firing back into the inlet im assuming the inlet cam is wrong. please correct me if you think im wrong.


lastly, so far your help guys has been massivly appreciated, please keep it coming, i dont think you realise how much you are helping me, john.

[djx]

managed to dodge the weather today and do a little, the car is timed spot on, but still spits back into the inlet when turned over. i had it suggested that the cat could be blocked and as the gas has nowhere to go then it would go back up the inlet so i have now disconnected the exhaust downpipe to manifold but it still does the same. i am now contemplating taking the head off again to check whats going on but if anyone has any suggestions to try before i do that then they would be very welcome.

just a question though

i took the heads off when i did the engine change, and as you are aware you have to take one cam out of each head to get to the bolts, is there any way that i could have fitted the wrong cams to each head. is this possible?? if it is would this cause what i am experiencing.

[rpont]

i took the heads off when i did the engine change, and as you are aware you have to take one cam out of each head to get to the bolts, is there any way that i could have fitted the wrong cams to each head. is this possible?? if it is would this cause what i am experiencing.

It's possible. Have a lok at the pictures of mine before I took the heads off. On pic0003 it shows the camsaft positions for cylinders 2-4-6 with the crankshaft at no1 TDC and compare it with yours.

http://www.infohitsystems.ltd.uk/Gallery/dirwrap_photo.sh?path=Car

Have you got the sprockets on the correct pins, no 3 for inlet and no4 for exhaust?

There is some identification on the camshafts but I can't remember what it is. If no one has posted anything I'll have a look at mine tomorrow, they are still out, and see if anything is obvious.

[rpont]

I've just re-read the thread and seen that you only removed one cam from each head so you couldn't have gotten the inlet and exhaust mixed up for 2-4-6. Maybe one of the sprockets  is on the wrong pin?? All I can suggest is have a look at that pic and compare the positions of the lobes.

[rpont]

My cams are stamped at the rear end, away from the sprockets.

Inlet N
Exhaust D

I wasn't sure I had them the right way round so I went out and checked again and I've got 3 N's and 1 D. There is also a number stamped in the middle of the cams and they have 3 F's and 1 E stamped in the middle. Could I have 3 inlet and 1 exhaust cam???

Would it run??

Mine is a 1997 2.5 v6

I saw a post saying inlet was F, exhaust E and for 3l inlet G exhaust A.