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Author Topic: Using keys/remote from spare car?  (Read 6475 times)

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Stige

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Using keys/remote from spare car?
« on: 09 April 2017, 18:46:45 »

I probably have another Omega to salvage parts from soon and as my own car doesn't have a key or remote on it, am I correct that I need ECU, transponder and keys from the spare car to plug in on my own to be able to use the remote locking from it?

Both are MV6, one is 1996 and other is 1997. The spare just has lots of nice extras like leather interior, heated rear seats, sun roof etc...
Should just swap the engine from mine to that really if I had the time for it...
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #1 on: 09 April 2017, 18:54:23 »

When i took the engine out of my 1994 2.5 V6 it took most of a day to get the engine out. If a good replacement engine had been available then it would have been in that day and all plugged in and ready to drive after a second day.

Messing around swapping ECUs, locks, immobilisers, seats and other stuff will take a lot longer than an engine swap..........
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #2 on: 09 April 2017, 18:54:25 »

What is the last digit of the VIN on the donor and the new car.  As there are complications and compatibility issues.

Also, what do you want, to be able to remotely unlock car, or start the car, or both?
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Stige

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #3 on: 09 April 2017, 19:23:46 »

When i took the engine out of my 1994 2.5 V6 it took most of a day to get the engine out. If a good replacement engine had been available then it would have been in that day and all plugged in and ready to drive after a second day.

Messing around swapping ECUs, locks, immobilisers, seats and other stuff will take a lot longer than an engine swap..........

Yeah it would be better in every way to swap the engine but I'm a bit worried if I can get to all the transmission bolts etc while doing it on the ground without taking everything off the engine first.
For example BMW tranny swap is super easy if I have a lift to work on but I'm not sure if I could even get it off on the ground.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #4 on: 09 April 2017, 20:56:14 »

Can be done... not exactly fun, but physically possible.  ;)
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #5 on: 09 April 2017, 21:54:51 »

I did mine on the concrete in front of my house.

Front wheels up on ramps to give me(you) room to crawl under to get to the transmission bolts, exhaust bolts etc.

Bonnet off, scuttle off.

Engine hoist to lift the engine out. Engine is bloody heavy so you need a decent hoist to lift it safely.
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MonzaGSE

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #6 on: 10 April 2017, 06:03:49 »

I swapped the engine in my mv6 for another v6 a couple of years ago. I found it easyer to remove the engine and transmission as one unit. Then bolt the transmission to the new engine on the garage floor. And then finally lift the engine and transmission in again as one unit.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #7 on: 10 April 2017, 06:23:30 »

I swapped the engine in my mv6 for another v6 a couple of years ago. I found it easyer to remove the engine and transmission as one unit. Then bolt the transmission to the new engine on the garage floor. And then finally lift the engine and transmission in again as one unit.

Yeah my thoughts too, I havr done so many engine swaps on old V8s to have learned to just pull the tranny with the engine and its always easier. Thanks for insight.

Where is the vin located on these cars? If i were to swap their identities with the engine.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #8 on: 10 April 2017, 07:53:54 »

I swapped the engine in my mv6 for another v6 a couple of years ago. I found it easyer to remove the engine and transmission as one unit. Then bolt the transmission to the new engine on the garage floor. And then finally lift the engine and transmission in again as one unit.

Yeah my thoughts too, I havr done so many engine swaps on old V8s to have learned to just pull the tranny with the engine and its always easier. Thanks for insight.

Where is the vin located on these cars? If i were to swap their identities with the engine.
That would be completely and utterly illegal.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #9 on: 10 April 2017, 13:51:45 »

I swapped the engine in my mv6 for another v6 a couple of years ago. I found it easyer to remove the engine and transmission as one unit. Then bolt the transmission to the new engine on the garage floor. And then finally lift the engine and transmission in again as one unit.

Yeah my thoughts too, I havr done so many engine swaps on old V8s to have learned to just pull the tranny with the engine and its always easier. Thanks for insight.

Where is the vin located on these cars? If i were to swap their identities with the engine.
You'd have to check local laws, I doubt that would be allowed. Certainly not legal in UK.

VIN is in multiple places, sometimes stamped in, some of rivited plates, the one on dash I believe is bonded.  Its also stored in many of the ECUs.

I'd suspect, even if it were legal, it wouldn't be viable....
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #10 on: 10 April 2017, 17:14:47 »

I swapped the engine in my mv6 for another v6 a couple of years ago. I found it easyer to remove the engine and transmission as one unit. Then bolt the transmission to the new engine on the garage floor. And then finally lift the engine and transmission in again as one unit.

Yeah my thoughts too, I havr done so many engine swaps on old V8s to have learned to just pull the tranny with the engine and its always easier. Thanks for insight.

Where is the vin located on these cars? If i were to swap their identities with the engine.
You'd have to check local laws, I doubt that would be allowed. Certainly not legal in UK.

VIN is in multiple places, sometimes stamped in, some of rivited plates, the one on dash I believe is bonded.  Its also stored in many of the ECUs.

I'd suspect, even if it were legal, it wouldn't be viable....

Yeah I guess it would be a bit of a hassle to swap them all and stamp new ones in, especially the one on the dash is probably a PITA to swap.

But then again, the other car seems fine in every other way except the engine, even has new control arms and stuff so I guess there shouldn't be much to worry about the MOT either.

Such a pain all this stuff lol, kinda need the car every day so doing the engine swap could potentially take more than in my conditions, while the interior swap etc I can do bit by bit when I have time to do it and don't have to do everything at once.
Tough choices heh.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #11 on: 10 April 2017, 17:24:43 »

Last engine swap I did, with the help of the very helpful LFF64, took us about 8hrs, start to finish. Was the TD lump though, harder to remove due to its length.

But I had already done a swap on that car about 2 months earlier, where it took loads of us forever on a dull, wet day.  I still have happy memories of that day, a proper forum get together day :y
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Stige

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #12 on: 10 April 2017, 19:21:29 »

Last engine swap I did, with the help of the very helpful LFF64, took us about 8hrs, start to finish. Was the TD lump though, harder to remove due to its length.

But I had already done a swap on that car about 2 months earlier, where it took loads of us forever on a dull, wet day.  I still have happy memories of that day, a proper forum get together day :y

Yeah :D

What do you need to remove on the V6 to remove the engine and/or tranny? I mean do I need to disassemble stuff like intake, exhaust, exhaust manifold etc to make it fit out of the car or do I just take all the hoses, connectors and mounts off and off the engine comes?
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #13 on: 10 April 2017, 20:56:32 »

All the intake stuff must come out. And radiator to make room. Bonnet off and plastic scuttle off. Then remove all coolant hoses and servo hoses and disconnect all wires. Fuel lines, throttle cable and sai pipework. And the Vacuum hoses. Unbolt exhaust downpipes from manifolds both sides. Then its all gearbox connections. Wiring and shifter. Probably some more stuff i forgot. Remove propeller shaft and unbolt gearbox rear crossmember. Unbolt engine mounts and engine with gearbox should lift out. Need to Get front of the car pretty high to allow space for the gearbox to swing down when the bottom front of the engine goes over the front of the car.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #14 on: 11 April 2017, 19:04:26 »

And remove autobox with engine. Else you'll have a hell of a job lining it up to get it back in, ultimately damaging the input shaft seals on the box.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #15 on: 11 April 2017, 21:43:41 »

All the intake stuff must come out. And radiator to make room. Bonnet off and plastic scuttle off. Then remove all coolant hoses and servo hoses and disconnect all wires. Fuel lines, throttle cable and sai pipework. And the Vacuum hoses. Unbolt exhaust downpipes from manifolds both sides. Then its all gearbox connections. Wiring and shifter. Probably some more stuff i forgot. Remove propeller shaft and unbolt gearbox rear crossmember. Unbolt engine mounts and engine with gearbox should lift out. Need to Get front of the car pretty high to allow space for the gearbox to swing down when the bottom front of the engine goes over the front of the car.

Now this is a good challenge :y :y

This thread started about remote controls and it has now got to this! Cars eh? What challenges you can make out of what started as "a five minute job" ;D ;D ;D

How many of those jobs have I had over the years; too many to count! ;D
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #16 on: 12 April 2017, 06:05:43 »

And remove autobox with engine. Else you'll have a hell of a job lining it up to get it back in, ultimately damaging the input shaft seals on the box.

You always leave the torque converter in the tranny so I don't really see how you are gonna damage the input shaft in any way? Ofcourse if you take the torque converter out for whatever reason instead of unbolting it from the flexplate first then thats another story.
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Stige

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #17 on: 12 April 2017, 14:33:01 »

And remove autobox with engine. Else you'll have a hell of a job lining it up to get it back in, ultimately damaging the input shaft seals on the box.

You always leave the torque converter in the tranny so I don't really see how you are gonna damage the input shaft in any way? Ofcourse if you take the torque converter out for whatever reason instead of unbolting it from the flexplate first then thats another story.

EDIT: I had a quick look under the car today on a lift and getting to top tranny bolts seems a pain in the ass even on the lift so out with the tranny it is like everyone suggests.
Probably do this over the weekend as it's a long weekend here if I can borrow the engine lift from somewhere.

Then maybe fix the engine from the second car and put it in my current one, if it is only bearing damage on it..
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #18 on: 12 April 2017, 21:31:16 »

On your car it will be a pain in the ass to reach the top tranny bolts as there is a stupid shelf to hold the coil pack at the back of the engine that gets in the way of one of them, it is doable from underneath relatively easily with the exhaust downpipes removed though
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #19 on: 15 April 2017, 17:38:07 »

Well I had 4 days to do this on my moms yard but due to circumstances I missed first two, so I have two more days to do it and havent even started yet.
All suggestions are welcome to which order I should unbolt things, I guess best bet would be to start under the car itself.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #20 on: 15 April 2017, 18:14:25 »

Also what about the AC? Can I take it apart without breaking it? I mean aren't they supposed to stay attached to each other at all times and avoid any sort of contact with air or taking apart? Or is it safe to take it apart for this purpose and then just refill it next day again?
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #21 on: 15 April 2017, 18:47:34 »

Also what about the AC? Can I take it apart without breaking it? I mean aren't they supposed to stay attached to each other at all times and avoid any sort of contact with air or taking apart? Or is it safe to take it apart for this purpose and then just refill it next day again?
After I had removed the engine from my 1994 V6 I removed the cylinder heads and took them to a machine shop to have them checked over.

I had followed the instructions (in Haynes) to degass and then disconnect the A/C pipes from the compressor. They looked at me as if I had 2 heads - "we don't do that, we usually unbolt the compressor from the engine and tie it to one side"...........

I don't know how easy it is to get the engine out with the A/C condenser in place but I would definitely try to do it that way if I did it again.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #22 on: 15 April 2017, 21:35:16 »

Also what about the AC? Can I take it apart without breaking it? I mean aren't they supposed to stay attached to each other at all times and avoid any sort of contact with air or taking apart? Or is it safe to take it apart for this purpose and then just refill it next day again?
After I had removed the engine from my 1994 V6 I removed the cylinder heads and took them to a machine shop to have them checked over.

I had followed the instructions (in Haynes) to degass and then disconnect the A/C pipes from the compressor. They looked at me as if I had 2 heads - "we don't do that, we usually unbolt the compressor from the engine and tie it to one side"...........

I don't know how easy it is to get the engine out with the A/C condenser in place but I would definitely try to do it that way if I did it again.

I have a feeling taking the condenser off will make it much less a pain to remove the engine and tranny together on flat ground. Just worried about the AC being disconnected thats all, probably for no reason though as it wont stay disconnected for a long time.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #23 on: 15 April 2017, 22:11:33 »

Also what about the AC? Can I take it apart without breaking it? I mean aren't they supposed to stay attached to each other at all times and avoid any sort of contact with air or taking apart? Or is it safe to take it apart for this purpose and then just refill it next day again?
After I had removed the engine from my 1994 V6 I removed the cylinder heads and took them to a machine shop to have them checked over.

I had followed the instructions (in Haynes) to degass and then disconnect the A/C pipes from the compressor. They looked at me as if I had 2 heads - "we don't do that, we usually unbolt the compressor from the engine and tie it to one side"...........

I don't know how easy it is to get the engine out with the A/C condenser in place but I would definitely try to do it that way if I did it again.

I have a feeling taking the condenser off will make it much less a pain to remove the engine and tranny together on flat ground. Just worried about the AC being disconnected thats all, probably for no reason though as it wont stay disconnected for a long time.
To do it properly you should extract the old gas and send it to a licensed recycling facility.

Before refilling the system should be pressure tested with nitrogen and then put on a vacuum pump to extract any moisture. It all costs time and money :(

When the air intake pipes are removed there is quite a lot of space between the engine and the radiator. I think if you remove the radiator but leave the condenser behind it should be under the slam panel and not cause an additional obstruction :-\
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #24 on: 16 April 2017, 07:32:45 »

When i took the engine out of my 1994 2.5 V6 it took most of a day to get the engine out. If a good replacement engine had been available then it would have been in that day and all plugged in and ready to drive after a second day.

Messing around swapping ECUs, locks, immobilisers, seats and other stuff will take a lot longer than an engine swap..........

Yeah it would be better in every way to swap the engine but I'm a bit worried if I can get to all the transmission bolts etc while doing it on the ground without taking everything off the engine first.
For example BMW tranny swap is super easy if I have a lift to work on but I'm not sure if I could even get it off on the ground.


Engine and gearbox can be removed as 1 lump, decent engine crane, is needed, and an assistant, not the wife.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #25 on: 16 April 2017, 07:57:33 »

When i took the engine out of my 1994 2.5 V6 it took most of a day to get the engine out. If a good replacement engine had been available then it would have been in that day and all plugged in and ready to drive after a second day.

Messing around swapping ECUs, locks, immobilisers, seats and other stuff will take a lot longer than an engine swap..........

Yeah it would be better in every way to swap the engine but I'm a bit worried if I can get to all the transmission bolts etc while doing it on the ground without taking everything off the engine first.
For example BMW tranny swap is super easy if I have a lift to work on but I'm not sure if I could even get it off on the ground.


Engine and gearbox can be removed as 1 lump, decent engine crane, is needed, and an assistant, not the wife.

Only thing I'm missing then is the wife, I mean assistant! Will see, off to do some shopping and then gonna go work on it, goal is to just get the engine and tranny out from the second car and then I'll do the other car tomorrow and put it straight in the second car, should be a lot faster when I have done it once already.

Also need to swap the exhaust from my current car as the other one has massive leak in it somewhere, probably ran into a rock the same time the oilpan was dented too.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #26 on: 17 April 2017, 06:27:33 »

It was pretty easy to be honest, much easier than I was expecting. I even forgot to bring spare hands...
Took me about 5-6 hours to do it while doing other stuff meanwhile, shouldn't take more than 3 hours maybe today if I don't lose focus on it.

Hood off ready to begin:
https://puu.sh/vmOt4/e9367f5462.jpg

Donor car:
https://puu.sh/vmOuZ/eaa8f2edda.jpg

Passenger side done:
https://puu.sh/vmOwV/8278689d97.jpg

Need to eat too...
https://puu.sh/vmOwd/eb9015dd06.jpg

Driver side done:
https://puu.sh/vmOxQ/816f91c88c.jpg

And off it comes, had to use the donor car to pull the lift as it was a bit heavy on soft ground to move alone.
https://puu.sh/vmOz0/660c9cb3db.jpg
« Last Edit: 17 April 2017, 06:29:42 by Stige »
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #27 on: 17 April 2017, 08:38:28 »

 Well done  :y. It looks a bit cold for stripping cars outside  ???
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #28 on: 17 April 2017, 19:38:36 »

Well done  :y. It looks a bit cold for stripping cars outside  ???

It was a bit warmer yesterday, -6C or something today all day. All went really well for most part, very little trouble. Had to use my Fairlane today for pulling the lift, ran those straps under the Omega and Fairlane behind the Omega to pull the lift with the engine back to the car. Forgot to take pics though damn.
Got the engine and tranny in place, first thing I did was put the engine mount nuts on, then went to work between the firewall and noticed I had two sets of water hoses behind there stuck nicely, took too many hours to get them out.
I also had to use lots of sensor and dis pack from the car as it had square connectors while everything on the donor car had round conmectors.. 1 year difference lol, so silly.

Everything is done on upper side now, was like -8C when I left for home.
Tomorrow:
- Driveshaft
- Downpipes
- Shifter arm
- Tranny bolts

Should be ready to go then I think, fingers crossed...
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #29 on: 17 April 2017, 20:32:12 »

Well done. I remember now that i also had to use all the sensors and connectors from the old engine when i put a 97-98 X30xe into my 95 omega. Due to the square and oval connectors.
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #30 on: 17 April 2017, 20:53:07 »

Well done  :y. It looks a bit cold for stripping cars outside  ???

It was a bit warmer yesterday, -6C or something today all day. All went really well for most part, very little trouble. Had to use my Fairlane today for pulling the lift, ran those straps under the Omega and Fairlane behind the Omega to pull the lift with the engine back to the car. Forgot to take pics though damn.
Got the engine and tranny in place, first thing I did was put the engine mount nuts on, then went to work between the firewall and noticed I had two sets of water hoses behind there stuck nicely, took too many hours to get them out.
I also had to use lots of sensor and dis pack from the car as it had square connectors while everything on the donor car had round conmectors.. 1 year difference lol, so silly.

Everything is done on upper side now, was like -8C when I left for home.
Tomorrow:
- Driveshaft
- Downpipes
- Shifter arm
- Tranny bolts

Should be ready to go then I think, fingers crossed...
Bother - I assume you had to swap the crank sensor as well?

Be aware that the crank sensor wiring runs too close to the exhaust manifold - the wiring gets brittle due to the heat. If you disturb it then it may fail soon after so don't be too surprised if you need to fit a new one. :(
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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #31 on: 18 April 2017, 05:55:31 »

Well done  :y. It looks a bit cold for stripping cars outside  ???

It was a bit warmer yesterday, -6C or something today all day. All went really well for most part, very little trouble. Had to use my Fairlane today for pulling the lift, ran those straps under the Omega and Fairlane behind the Omega to pull the lift with the engine back to the car. Forgot to take pics though damn.
Got the engine and tranny in place, first thing I did was put the engine mount nuts on, then went to work between the firewall and noticed I had two sets of water hoses behind there stuck nicely, took too many hours to get them out.
I also had to use lots of sensor and dis pack from the car as it had square connectors while everything on the donor car had round conmectors.. 1 year difference lol, so silly.

Everything is done on upper side now, was like -8C when I left for home.
Tomorrow:
- Driveshaft
- Downpipes
- Shifter arm
- Tranny bolts

Should be ready to go then I think, fingers crossed...
Bother - I assume you had to swap the crank sensor as well?

Be aware that the crank sensor wiring runs too close to the exhaust manifold - the wiring gets brittle due to the heat. If you disturb it then it may fail soon after so don't be too surprised if you need to fit a new one. :(

Yup I had to swap it. I had new original sensor and dis pack on the other car so shame to ditch them :(
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Stige

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #32 on: 18 April 2017, 17:37:36 »

Do you need to bleed these some way? Im not getting warm air inside the car at all, or is the heater core clogged? Any tips what to test/check? Also I had my temp gauge go up a little and then it dropped and now shows nothing like in the previous car but it seems to get to operating temps just fine as the single fan inside the cabin starts occasionally.
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Stige

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #33 on: 18 April 2017, 18:22:19 »

Figured it out, apparently the vacuum source to the HBV should not be constant, that is why I wasn't getting warm air inside the car. So now I got one loose vacuum hose behind the car that has vacuum in it and not sure where to put it.

Is this thing perhaps related to the HBV operation by any chance at the back of the engine? Connector goes to it and it has 2 vacuum hoses going to it apparently but I'm not sure from where and to where.
https://puu.sh/vooND/0d5c463dc5.jpg

I also have a problem of very low idle when warm, like sub-500 rpm and it sputters occasionally while idling, runs and revs fine only the low idle seems to be a problem, in the other car it was like 900 rpm but it had a vacuum leak at the back that I couldn't see so I'm not sure what it should even be.
https://puu.sh/vooSz/deb066a795.jpg

I get the check engine light on shortly after I take off at low RPMs or if I go around the town at low revs but when I do a quicker acceleration it turns off almost instantly and stays off usually under my "usual" driving. Need to read the codes tomorrow or something but anyone got any wild guesses?
« Last Edit: 18 April 2017, 18:24:07 by Stige »
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MonzaGSE

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #34 on: 18 April 2017, 18:35:26 »

The thing in your first picture has nothing to do with the hbv. If its at the back of the engine then its the Vacuum actuator for the rear multiram. There are two more of those for the front multiram and the SAI system but theyre both at the front of the engine. A complete drawing of the vacuum system is available on this forum under maintenance guides.
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Stige

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #35 on: 18 April 2017, 18:38:17 »

The thing in your first picture has nothing to do with the hbv. If its at the back of the engine then its the Vacuum actuator for the rear multiram. There are two more of those for the front multiram and the SAI system but theyre both at the front of the engine. A complete drawing of the vacuum system is available on this forum under maintenance guides.

Where does the vacuum hose come from that goes to the HBV then if it's not supposed to be constant?
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MonzaGSE

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Re: Using keys/remote from spare car?
« Reply #36 on: 18 April 2017, 18:45:29 »

It comes from the cabin/heater. Its just supposed to have Vacuum when the heater is set to cold.
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MonzaGSE

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