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Author Topic: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold  (Read 1519 times)

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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #30 on: 04 September 2017, 08:34:00 »

Sorry SKF BB1-0207 B Italy B 07 17 032N
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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #31 on: 04 September 2017, 09:21:15 »

There is no play in my pulleys, and I cannot make it click as it rocks, as yours does.
For what it's worth, my tensioner is stamped SKF 337025 DC F-244449776, the other pulleys  are labelled SKF 337185 A FRANCE J117 15:27, and the alloy casting SKF GERMANY 337054 FB.

Do both pulleys rock and click when rocked? That does seem wrong and may well be your trouble.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #32 on: 04 September 2017, 10:16:10 »

OK, I have same tensioner number SKF 337025 DC F-24449776 (one '4' less, perhaps mistake) The number I gave is stamped to the SKF bearing outer ring.
I check the number of other pulleys soon. They rock in the same way. I try to give a clear value of this perhaps one mm = 0.04 inches.

I also believed for a while that these pulleys might cause problems. When some discontinuity in belt passes them they give some noise... difficult to understand. I will test with brand new belt soon. It will come tomorrow. If that does not help I put back the old base plate, pulleys and tensioner just for test. Terrible work.

Is it so that your tensioner do not rock at all? Even that 1 mm. It is not very probable that my all parts are bad. If 1 mm rock is OK then the belt just was bad. The kit is GM 9201887+idler GM 9196294+belt (Gates) is GM 95522522.
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cam.in.head

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #33 on: 04 September 2017, 11:27:35 »

i have just checked 4 brand new cam kit sets (delco)and also my original old 22000 mile conti old rollers.all have similar amount of play as yours does.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #34 on: 04 September 2017, 13:26:25 »

i have just checked 4 brand new cam kit sets (delco)and also my original old 22000 mile conti old rollers.all have similar amount of play as yours does.

These are good news, thanks a lot for your effort. Then we can guess it is the belt, I get it soon and come back with results if anybody has nothing else in mind I should check before that.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #35 on: 09 September 2017, 10:24:52 »

New belt installed, no sound/noice at the moment, lets wait. I checked all my old belts. They all have some straight wear stripes in back side. This noisy one has sinuous stripes like snakes. Perhaps the belt was bad or something else...
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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #36 on: 09 September 2017, 12:40:12 »

Yup, that's good news, long may it remain silent, and really it was the obvious culprit. This forum has had such problems before, but you are the first member to swop just the belt and prove it. Thanks and congratulations.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #37 on: 20 September 2017, 03:52:00 »

Strange!
After 500km the sound is back when cold - once/timing belt round. After 15 minutes drive disappeared totally.
What this really can be.
I really do not understand anymore. One belt round is about 10 crank rounds, 5 cam(s) rounds and about 15-20 idler/tensioner rounds.

It is quite unrealistic to think that if e.g. idlers/tensioner  were not rotating parallel to crank/cams it would eat the belt so that it starts to give this noise.

Perhaps I should change the whole kit again? What do you think.

I understand it is difficult to give recommendations e.g. "just live with it" but what did you do by your self.
Who was selling those 40 GBP kits? I am ready to start from the beginning.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #38 on: 20 September 2017, 17:31:03 »

Hello, any opinions?
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cam.in.head

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #39 on: 20 September 2017, 17:44:14 »

hi. is the new belt the same make as the other noisy one ? . did you check the spacer behind the lower roller was the thicker one. are there any signs of the belt running off to one side. looking at mine the belt sits nicely on the 4 cam wheels with only a couple of mm or so visible
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cam.in.head

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #40 on: 20 September 2017, 17:51:54 »

also are there any localised shiny spots on the edge of the belt ?
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #41 on: 24 September 2017, 17:09:02 »

hi. is the new belt the same make as the other noisy one ? . did you check the spacer behind the lower roller was the thicker one. are there any signs of the belt running off to one side. looking at mine the belt sits nicely on the 4 cam wheels with only a couple of mm or so visible

Thanks for comments:

1. Yes, Gates belt in GM package sealed with GM Hologram in both cases.
2. Spacers are in their correct position.
3. As I wrote Aug 30.
(1. In bank 1-3-5 I can see about 3.5 mm cam sprocket teeth in front of the belt and in bank two maybe 3 mm. So belt is a bit "back".)
(2. Belt seems to be against rear flanges of the guiding rolls. Rear flanges slightly polished.)

Have to check in the near future whether the base plate is a correct one. All parts were from GM kit No. 9201887.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #42 on: 24 September 2017, 17:15:32 »

also are there any localised shiny spots on the edge of the belt ?

Belt was sent to supplier. I believe there were no spots.

As I wrote Sep 9: (I checked all my old belts. They all have some straight wear stripes in back side. This noisy one has sinuous stripes like snakes.)

Like it did not run a "straight path")this base plate worries me.

I ordered a new GM kit including everything again. Put it there when it arrives.

New thing I found this morning is that cold engine is silent in first minute and the sound starts after that and then disappears after 15 minutes drive.
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cam.in.head

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #43 on: 24 September 2017, 18:53:43 »

Ok . . Do you have all your ORIGINAL bits ? And was it silent running on these ? . Did you notice if the belt was " a bit back " as you said on these parts? . Probably not what you would have been looking for then though. Try to compare everything with your new parts looking for spacer thickness and anything that could cause the belt to run off centre such as burrs on mounting faces or the tensioner bolt post being bent ? If im correct here there are 3 different baseplate types but i think there is only one style for a later engine with the offset top roller.googling various images gives a general idea of the belt to pulley front distances but its not always easy to see in the pictures.the belt on mine was same on all 4 and sits just after the tapered edge.my old rollers dont look exxecively shiney on any one side .maybee compare with your new kit when it arrives.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #44 on: 28 September 2017, 18:03:05 »

Ok . . Do you have all your ORIGINAL bits ? And was it silent running on these ? . Did you notice if the belt was " a bit back " as you said on these parts? . Probably not what you would have been looking for then though. Try to compare everything with your new parts looking for spacer thickness and anything that could cause the belt to run off centre such as burrs on mounting faces or the tensioner bolt post being bent ? If im correct here there are 3 different baseplate types but i think there is only one style for a later engine with the offset top roller.googling various images gives a general idea of the belt to pulley front distances but its not always easy to see in the pictures.the belt on mine was same on all 4 and sits just after the tapered edge.my old rollers dont look exxecively shiney on any one side .maybee compare with your new kit when it arrives.

Thanks for comments, all parts similar to original and engine silent with old parts but:!!!
I think I found the root cause. What I saw when taken the base plate away was that the tensioner was not parallel with the bottom part of the base plate/cylinder head surface. I has alignment error so that the water pump side of the tensioner is closer to cylinder head than the other side. Alignment error can be seen by eye when verified with old parts. So this leads to situation that when belt goes here in "loose" side to cam No. 1 tensioner lead it too back which is seen also in cam sprockets 1&2. I measured 3.5 mm teeth in front of the belt. Belt back side is full of snakes again and amount of rubber dust is big - above water pump and inside the base plate below upper idler. New parts coming tomorrow so I keep you informed...

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