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Author Topic: After the MOTů..  (Read 1032 times)

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powerslinky

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #15 on: 16 September 2017, 15:25:04 »

Al, I've just ordered the Ebay ball joints!
I do thank you for the information, though - 20,000 miles would easily see my Omega out, but then, so would those ball joints?
Is it easier to replace the wishbones than the ball joints; i.e. would it still need all that angle grinding?

Drop links and track rods? Do I need them? Tyre-Smart never mentioned them, whatever they do.....




Was just saying you can get the complete kit for ú70 delivered.

Wishbones come with the new ball joint fitted . More involved to to fit new wishbones though  & a set up required afterwards.

Myself , if I was wanting the car to see a few  more years useage , I would fit new "bones" drop links & track rods.  But nothing wrong in the route you have chosen with replacing the ball joints .  Guessing your wishbones are well past their best though :-\

Ron.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #16 on: 16 September 2017, 16:06:14 »

Ron , ATP (Germany)   do the wishbones , drop links & track rods as a kit for  . . .

wait for it  . . .   ú69.99  at the moment   with . . .

free postage from Germany    :o :o :o

2 x wishbones    2x drop links   2x  track rods   ;) ;) ;)

Always use these  . . . usually good for at least 20,000 miles .

No doubt the purists on here will "slag 'em off " . . .

but Nitro & myself have used them plenty of times with no issues.

Good heads up on the tracking & geometry place
Buy two at that price  :o
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #17 on: 16 September 2017, 16:15:09 »

Many thanks for all your input, gents, much appreciated.

Lizzie, that was the first time my local Kwik-Fit have tried to con me, they are usually very good.
That's a lesson learned.
My erstwhile reputable garage failed to notice the state of the ball joints!

Albs, Tyre-Smart have this Hunter alignment rig - very impressive - and were happy to use my camber settings, as found on here.
When I asked them about just replacing the ball joints, they said there wasn't a lot in it, pricewise, compared to complete wishbones.

Ron.

You either been very lucky Ron or you never realised they have! ::) ::) :-* :-* ;)
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Shackeng

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #18 on: 16 September 2017, 16:39:07 »

Oh, and they may well still have the reprint of the OOF camber guide, by Tony of WIM, but just in case, here is a summary:-

"Topic: Omegas and Camber
Camber is the vertical position of the wheel; its duty is to maintain the position of the cars weight at about mid-point of the tyre footprint.
The force generated by the camber is conically compressive... This is achieved by deforming the circumference of the tyre sidewall, forcing both front tyres to roll into the cars centre line.

But there is a problem?
The suggested position for the front camber is 1 degree 40' negative (top of wheel leaning toward the car)
Over time the front coil springs will weaken lowering the cars sprung area... This not only changes the camber position it also changes the dynamic camber gains... So a calculated gain from -1 degree 40' on the bump to 2 degrees 10' is exceeded.... maybe to 2 degrees 50'.

A dynamic average per mile maybe 2 degrees 30'.

So what?
Most Japanese manufacturers offer a progressive calibration table that allows the operator to measure the actual body height and categorize the changes required to compensate for the new dynamic positions, historically this means less static camber.

Unfortunately this table is not available for the Omega... So if you have worn coils and tyre wear the shop will set the camber to the OEM 1 degree 40' negative.... Thus the problem returns and the forum chatter will offer other criminals like wishbones and alike.

Whats the difference?
Camber tyre wear involves about 10% of the total tyre width.... It's very violent wear and can reduce a new tyre to the wire in 5k.

Wishbone wear allows tyre contact rolling resistance to change the toe position... The tyre wear is lateral and involves the entire tread...Additionally on the bump and under braking the car usually pulls.

What to do?
Geometry positions are not absolute law... In fact it borders the theoretical on most cars even with progressive tables. wheels-inmotion (wim) wrote new calibration positions for the Omega some years ago.... I think you would understand it's commercial suicide to display the actual settings but if you are having problems we are willing to help with data out of sight (email-pm)

Further reading
www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk
www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum

I hope this topic is of value to some members
Tony@ wim"

Hope it helps,

Ron.

I hadn't read this before, although I have used the settings, but it raises an interesting question. What setting to use with new springs, shocks, poly's etc.? :-\
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #19 on: 16 September 2017, 18:54:05 »

Same :y
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Bigron

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #20 on: 16 September 2017, 19:09:38 »

Ron , ATP (Germany)   do the wishbones , drop links & track rods as a kit for  . . .

wait for it  . . .   ú69.99  at the moment   with . . .

free postage from Germany    :o :o :o

2 x wishbones    2x drop links   2x  track rods   ;) ;) ;)

Always use these  . . . usually good for at least 20,000 miles .
No doubt the purists on here will "slag 'em off " . . .

but Nitro & myself have used them plenty of times with no issues.

Good heads up on the tracking & geometry place



Al, do you have a link to ATP's website please; all I can find is something in German which I can't understand.
It looks like I am being persuaded to forget the ball joints and replace the wishbones and all those other links and rods and things that I know not of!

Ron.
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powerslinky

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #21 on: 16 September 2017, 19:27:52 »

PM sent Ron  . . . can't do them linky things  :-[    ;D ;D


2nd PM sent  . . .  ;) ;)
« Last Edit: 16 September 2017, 19:34:19 by Essex Big Al »
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Migv6

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #22 on: 25 September 2017, 18:40:59 »

My car is booked in with Tyre smart on Weds. afternoon. Will report back after Ive been. . :y
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Bigron

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #23 on: 25 September 2017, 20:58:09 »

I hope they look after you, Albs. Do mention the forum for your discount; did I give you the camber settings as per the forum guide and WIM?

Ron.
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Migv6

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #24 on: 25 September 2017, 21:12:01 »

Got the settings, thanks Ron.  :y
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Migv6

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #25 on: 27 September 2017, 18:53:20 »

Visited Tyre Smart today. Found them very friendly and accommodating, but the expert opinions on the results will tell how good they are, or aren't.
The guy working on my car readjusted the front camber many times, but said he couldn't quite get it to exactly the figures I gave him, but settled for it being very close.
He also mentioned that my figures had camber settings for the rear whels, but there is no way of adjusting rear camber.  :-\
So...............
Left front camber -1 24        Right front camber -1 24
"        "   Caster   5 16             "      "                  5 32
"        "   Toe       0 05            "       "       Toe      0 04

                                  FRONT
                                   0 09
                               Total toe
                                   0 00
                             steer ahead


                                   Rear

Left rear camber  -2 17                Right rear camber  2 05
   "    "      toe      0 05                     "      "     toe      0 06
                                       rear
                                       0 11
                                     total toe
                                        0 00
                                   thrust angle



So, the question is - id this close enough to be deemed a pretty good job or not ?   
 
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Migv6

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #26 on: 27 September 2017, 21:03:12 »

Having looked up the proper figures, seems most of them are close aprt from rear camber which is almost a degree out.
Thing is, if it isn't adjustable ,what can be done about that ?  :-\

TB or Doctor Gollum to help areas please.  ;D
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Nick W

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #27 on: 27 September 2017, 21:11:56 »

Having looked up the proper figures, seems most of them are close aprt from rear camber which is almost a degree out.
Thing is, if it isn't adjustable ,what can be done about that ?  :-\



The rear camber is adjustable, but it is done with the same adjuster as the toe, which is much more important vital.


Those figures are very close side to side, with decent camber on the front and the steer ahead is spot on for both axles.
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Migv6

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #28 on: 27 September 2017, 21:27:25 »

Cheers.  :y
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: After the MOTů..
« Reply #29 on: 27 September 2017, 22:24:25 »

Crucially, the thrust angle is zero. Rear camber and toe are a compromise, so those numbers are pretty good :y

Front camber is a touch high, but is even side to side, so again a good effort, just keep an eye on the inner edges :y
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