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Author Topic: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden  (Read 720 times)

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terry paget

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V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« on: 31 December 2017, 20:32:28 »

Omega 2.6 manual saloon
As above. I have removed all plugs and found water in no. 6. I shall remove scuttle next. Is it forum policy to remove the foam?
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #1 on: 31 December 2017, 20:37:59 »

It works for me ;)

Others might advocate sealing the scuttle, but ultimately it is the foam that retains the moisture which drips onto the cam covers and coil/dis packs...

Only petrol Omega not to have this issue, ie nothing below the foam for the water to drip on, is the 2.2 ;)
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Andy H

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #2 on: 31 December 2017, 20:49:16 »

Not really.

Make sure that both parts of the trim are securely attached to the base of the windscreen.

When I got the Project MV6 from James he had just replaced the coil packs. After a little while I discovered that the scuttle foam was soaking wet and that the windscreen trim was insecure. I ended up pulling the trim off (and separating both parts) and giving it a good scrub to get all the moss out.

Since I did that the foam has remained dry. Pulling the foam off doesn't prevent the leaks it merely gets rid of the evidence..........
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #3 on: 31 December 2017, 21:03:16 »

Removing it does allow the water run down/back to the bulkhead and on towards the chassis rail which is in turn designed and attached in such a way as to not retain water ;)
« Last Edit: 31 December 2017, 21:15:32 by Fraggles Rock »
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Nick W

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #4 on: 31 December 2017, 21:07:44 »

Omega 2.6 manual saloon
As above. I have removed all plugs and found water in no. 6. I shall remove scuttle next. Is it forum policy to remove the foam?


I did. All symptoms and effects of the scuttle leaking instantly stopped, with no downsides. It's quick, easy and effective so why wouldn't you?
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #5 on: 31 December 2017, 22:16:20 »

A nice bead of silicone where the scuttle sits on the bulkhead always worked for me, and if the foam stays dry you know its sealed.  :y 

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128823.0
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BazaJT

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #6 on: 01 January 2018, 08:18:21 »

I pulled the foam from mine,however I'm hoping to get another scuttle soon[mine's had a piece broken off it since I bought it.Assuming the replacement comes with foam then I'll try the sealant route.Ibelieve I've seen on here that sealant around the wiper spindle holes can also be a good idea.
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Andy H

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #7 on: 01 January 2018, 09:05:01 »

The trim comprises a hard plastic channel that is a push fit on the bottom edge of the glass and a rubber cover trim that clips into the hard trim.

Get everything clean and  it won't leak.

Seal the water (and moss) in and it will make the metal frame behind the screen wet and promote corrosion.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #8 on: 01 January 2018, 11:44:18 »

Yep, there are 2 aspects to sealing the scuttle:

Make sure the strip attached to the glass is solidly fixed, or the water will, as Andy H says, find its' way under the seal and back behind the scuttle channel.

Seal the scuttle channel to the cabin filter box, using silicone if necessary as often the original foam has deteriorated. The wiper hole inn the centre of the scuttle is also critical as it allows water to drip straight onto the 1,3,5 coil pack if it drips. A little silicone here, or doubling up on the felt washers, often helps.
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #9 on: 01 January 2018, 12:11:22 »

Yep, there are 2 aspects to sealing the scuttle:

Make sure the strip attached to the glass is solidly fixed, or the water will, as Andy H says, find its' way under the seal and back behind the scuttle channel.

Seal the scuttle channel to the cabin filter box, using silicone if necessary as often the original foam has deteriorated. The wiper hole inn the centre of the scuttle is also critical as it allows water to drip straight onto the 1,3,5 coil pack if it drips. A little silicone here, or doubling up on the felt washers, often helps.

This is what I meant earlier by sealing the scuttle to the bulkhead, as the cabin filter box is part of the bulkhead really.   ;)
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TheBoy

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #10 on: 01 January 2018, 15:23:18 »

Do NOT remove foam. Its there for a reason (noise). Fix the original issue of the leak, not the symptom. Make sure the seal is fully on the lower windscreen edge, and that the scuttle is correction in the same seal.

Problem solved.
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terry paget

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #11 on: 01 January 2018, 19:05:15 »

My thanks to all for advice.
I have removed the foam. It was sodden, heavy with water, if squeezed water dripped out. It was easily removed, I just removed 5 clips and it came off. I could replace it, but doubt I shall. I presumed its function was sound insulation, but car is not noticeably noisier without it.
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #12 on: 01 January 2018, 19:48:26 »

My thanks to all for advice.
I have removed the foam. It was sodden, heavy with water, if squeezed water dripped out. It was easily removed, I just removed 5 clips and it came off. I could replace it, but doubt I shall. I presumed its function was sound insulation, but car is not noticeably noisier without it.
This has also been my experience ;)
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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #13 on: 02 January 2018, 16:58:58 »

My thanks to all for advice.
I have removed the foam. It was sodden, heavy with water, if squeezed water dripped out. It was easily removed, I just removed 5 clips and it came off. I could replace it, but doubt I shall. I presumed its function was sound insulation, but car is not noticeably noisier without it.
This has also been my experience ;)
The car does rev beyond 2500 rpm ;D
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #14 on: 02 January 2018, 19:50:31 »

My thanks to all for advice.
I have removed the foam. It was sodden, heavy with water, if squeezed water dripped out. It was easily removed, I just removed 5 clips and it came off. I could replace it, but doubt I shall. I presumed its function was sound insulation, but car is not noticeably noisier without it.
This has also been my experience ;)
The car does rev beyond 2500 rpm ;D
Regularly :-P
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terry paget

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #15 on: 03 January 2018, 21:47:05 »

Inspired by charlieboy's exhaust thread, I checked this car's history. In December 2016 it suffered a misfire in no. 6, which I 'cured' with a plug change. I did not trace the cause, the sodden scuttle foam. I hope this year I have rectified the underlying cause.
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #16 on: 03 January 2018, 23:38:02 »

You havn't cured the leak though Terry, and now without the foam it is harder to tell if your scuttle is leaking or not.  ::)

Granted you havn't got the foam storing the water and dripping all over your dispack though....  :)
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terry paget

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #17 on: 06 January 2018, 11:52:01 »

Not really.

Make sure that both parts of the trim are securely attached to the base of the windscreen.

When I got the Project MV6 from James he had just replaced the coil packs. After a little while I discovered that the scuttle foam was soaking wet and that the windscreen trim was insecure. I ended up pulling the trim off (and separating both parts) and giving it a good scrub to get all the moss out.

Since I did that the foam has remained dry. Pulling the foam off doesn't prevent the leaks it merely gets rid of the evidence..........
Thanks for the enlightenment. I used to believe windscreen trims were glued on. Son Jonny recently had a windscreen replaced and complained to me that the side trims was coming out. I contacted Autoglass, they came along, said it should be a push fit, then glued it in place. In the past I have glued on loose bottom trims. Next time I shall pull the bottom trim off and reseat everything properly.
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TheBoy

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #18 on: 06 January 2018, 14:54:32 »

Not really.

Make sure that both parts of the trim are securely attached to the base of the windscreen.

When I got the Project MV6 from James he had just replaced the coil packs. After a little while I discovered that the scuttle foam was soaking wet and that the windscreen trim was insecure. I ended up pulling the trim off (and separating both parts) and giving it a good scrub to get all the moss out.

Since I did that the foam has remained dry. Pulling the foam off doesn't prevent the leaks it merely gets rid of the evidence..........
Thanks for the enlightenment. I used to believe windscreen trims were glued on. Son Jonny recently had a windscreen replaced and complained to me that the side trims was coming out. I contacted Autoglass, they came along, said it should be a push fit, then glued it in place. In the past I have glued on loose bottom trims. Next time I shall pull the bottom trim off and reseat everything properly.
And that will cure it, and without having to sacrifice the sound deadening (which doesn't cure the problem anyway) :y
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ajsphead

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #19 on: 06 January 2018, 16:11:14 »

Not really.

Make sure that both parts of the trim are securely attached to the base of the windscreen.

When I got the Project MV6 from James he had just replaced the coil packs. After a little while I discovered that the scuttle foam was soaking wet and that the windscreen trim was insecure. I ended up pulling the trim off (and separating both parts) and giving it a good scrub to get all the moss out.

Since I did that the foam has remained dry. Pulling the foam off doesn't prevent the leaks it merely gets rid of the evidence..........
Thanks for the enlightenment. I used to believe windscreen trims were glued on. Son Jonny recently had a windscreen replaced and complained to me that the side trims was coming out. I contacted Autoglass, they came along, said it should be a push fit, then glued it in place. In the past I have glued on loose bottom trims. Next time I shall pull the bottom trim off and reseat everything properly.

Recently had autoglass to replace a windscreen on mine, what a laugh that was after taking 3 attempts. The parts do all clip together and no glue should be necessary. The final pair of fitters explained that if you don't have experience of doing Omegas and fit everything together in the right order and the right direction then the trims will keep coming loose and also not sit correctly.
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #20 on: 06 January 2018, 16:41:34 »

The Sound deadening basics: a) doesn't work and b) it holds about a litre of water.

Does removing it stop the scuttle leaking? No. But it does stop the water from collecting and dripping onto the coil pack/camcover.

So is removing it an effective cure to the issue of wet coil packs and plug wells? Yes.

We will have to agree to disagree on the technical merits of spending an afternoon trying to get 17 year old heat soaked plastics to fit neatly versus two minutes spent removing some soggy foam ;)
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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #21 on: 06 January 2018, 17:01:30 »

Or you could spend 2 minutes putting a bead of silicon on the edge of the cabin filter box where the end of the scuttle sits.  ;)
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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #22 on: 06 January 2018, 19:21:23 »

I'm sure a member previously hand-crafted an extra plastic cover, held on by some of the existing plenum bolts, to belt-and-braces the job.
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Nick W

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #23 on: 06 January 2018, 20:09:52 »

The Sound deadening basics: a) doesn't work and b) it holds about a litre of water.

Does removing it stop the scuttle leaking? No. But it does stop the water from collecting and dripping onto the coil pack/camcover.

So is removing it an effective cure to the issue of wet coil packs and plug wells? Yes.

We will have to agree to disagree on the technical merits of spending an afternoon trying to get 17 year old heat soaked plastics to fit neatly versus two minutes spent removing some soggy foam ;)


I'm with you. The original trim is supposed to divert the water away from stuff underneath it. It doesn't do this very well, and the foam makes the problem much worse. Removing the foam makes no difference to the noise inside the car, and eliminates any issues scuttle leaks might cause.
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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #24 on: 07 January 2018, 10:07:55 »

I made an aluminium tray bolted to the plenum to divert water.
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TheBoy

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #25 on: 07 January 2018, 10:08:37 »

The Sound deadening basics: a) doesn't work and b) it holds about a litre of water.

Does removing it stop the scuttle leaking? No. But it does stop the water from collecting and dripping onto the coil pack/camcover.

So is removing it an effective cure to the issue of wet coil packs and plug wells? Yes.

We will have to agree to disagree on the technical merits of spending an afternoon trying to get 17 year old heat soaked plastics to fit neatly versus two minutes spent removing some soggy foam ;)
But either way, you still need to fix the leak. A fix that makes the foam removal unnecessary.  Personally, I'd rather fix a problem properly, but everyone is entitled to do as they please on their own property :y


And, as a sound deadening, it works ok. Its easy to tell, from the cabin, a car that's had the foam removed.
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TheBoy

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Re: V6 misfire, water in no. 6 and scuttle foam sodden
« Reply #26 on: 07 January 2018, 10:10:52 »

Or you could spend 2 minutes putting a bead of silicon on the edge of the cabin filter box where the end of the scuttle sits.  ;)
That doesn't fix the usual cause of this, which is water running down screen, and under the lower seal (because its not properly clipped on the windscreen), and then dripping on back of engine, and some soaking into foam.
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