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Author Topic: Iran  (Read 5065 times)

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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Iran
« Reply #30 on: 04 January 2018, 17:48:26 »

In terms of Democracy, I would sooner live with Churchill's famous quote : “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” and strive for a superior version of it. ;)
My own belief is that the 1980s Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister series were a little bit too close to reality....

At the moment, I think we can only dream of a reality like that. :D

I think a Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister style comedy set in Brussels and done in the style of Allo Allo would prove to be very popular!  :y  If a little unPC!  ::)  :P

It could be called Ya Commissar!   ;D
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Nick W

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Re: Iran
« Reply #31 on: 04 January 2018, 18:07:54 »

Iran is going through a process that will eventually separate the church from the state, and ensure the people have full democracy.



Islam is specifically designed to BE the state as well as the church, so that isn't going to happen without some fundamental changes. And Islam's appeal to much of the world is its utter certainty and resistance to change. It ain't going to happen anytime soon.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Iran
« Reply #32 on: 04 January 2018, 19:48:47 »

Iran is going through a process that will eventually separate the church from the state, and ensure the people have full democracy.



Islam is specifically designed to BE the state as well as the church, so that isn't going to happen without some fundamental changes. And Islam's appeal to much of the world is its utter certainty and resistance to change. It ain't going to happen anytime soon.
[/highlight]

Perhaps I didn't emphasise enough, so I'll repeat that it may take 400 years but eventually the power of the church, in this case Islam, will decline and be replaced by a democratic system. It will not be "anytime soon" that is for sure.  But if you went back 400 years in England you would not have even contemplated the thought that both the church and monarchy's power would be disappated by the common folk, the peasants. Same in France, until 1789 no-one believed there could be a realistic alternative to the power of the main Estates, the Catholic Church and the monarchy, along with the aristocracy. But in both cases it eventually happened.

Islam is not the be all and end all. As the people look for a system whereby they can be valued as individuals, with full human rights, justice, wealth, and democracy - having a true say in there lives and not being led by clerics - then the power / attraction of Islam will fade as their abuse of power becomes all too obvious as it has in Iran.

Islam and Christainity will still exist as faiths and religions, but not as political powers. Secular societies will develop around the Islamic world, as it has already in Turkey, although there it has a long way to go before it is democratic.  ;)
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Iran
« Reply #33 on: 04 January 2018, 20:42:56 »

Islam and Christainity will still exist as faiths and religions, but not as political powers. Secular societies will develop around the Islamic world, as it has already in Turkey, although there it has a long way to go before it is democratic;)

Secularism is on the slide in Turkey and other secular muslim states as well.  :(

On a visit to Malaysia a couple of years ago I was shocked at how 'dry' the country had become since my last visit 20 odd years before.  :o  It was hard to find a beer!!  ::)
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TheBoy

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Re: Iran
« Reply #34 on: 05 January 2018, 14:07:14 »

Ah, that is the thing.  I am not any kind of specialist in American politics but one thing I do know is that thanks to the American Constitution it is very hard, if not impossible, to amend American law. Believe it or not, since 1789 to 2017 there have been 11,699 measures have been proposed to amend the Constitution; of these just 33 have gone from Congress to be ratified, but only 27 have been.
Thats called by many as democracy ;)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Iran
« Reply #35 on: 05 January 2018, 15:51:02 »

Ah, that is the thing.  I am not any kind of specialist in American politics but one thing I do know is that thanks to the American Constitution it is very hard, if not impossible, to amend American law. Believe it or not, since 1789 to 2017 there have been 11,699 measures have been proposed to amend the Constitution; of these just 33 have gone from Congress to be ratified, but only 27 have been.
Thats called by many as democracy ;)

More like constrained democracy TB :y
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Iran
« Reply #36 on: 05 January 2018, 16:42:01 »

Ah, that is the thing.  I am not any kind of specialist in American politics but one thing I do know is that thanks to the American Constitution it is very hard, if not impossible, to amend American law. Believe it or not, since 1789 to 2017 there have been 11,699 measures have been proposed to amend the Constitution; of these just 33 have gone from Congress to be ratified, but only 27 have been.
Thats called by many as democracy ;)

More like constrained democracy TB :y

It's worth putting a few sensible absolute constraints on any system of government in case you elect a complete retar... Oh, Hang on!
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Iran
« Reply #37 on: 05 January 2018, 16:59:26 »

Ah, that is the thing.  I am not any kind of specialist in American politics but one thing I do know is that thanks to the American Constitution it is very hard, if not impossible, to amend American law. Believe it or not, since 1789 to 2017 there have been 11,699 measures have been proposed to amend the Constitution; of these just 33 have gone from Congress to be ratified, but only 27 have been.
Thats called by many as democracy ;)

More like constrained democracy TB :y

It's worth putting a few sensible absolute constraints on any system of government in case you elect a complete retar... Oh, Hang on!

Good point :y :y :y :y
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Fraggles Rock

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Re: Iran
« Reply #38 on: 05 January 2018, 23:11:31 »

You're not comparing apples with apples... Those seventeen amendments were to the foundations of government, not laws...

Here the counties don't have their own laws... Sure there's the odd archaic parish or district bylaw, but not keeping sheep on a Sunday is not the same as the right to bear arms.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Iran
« Reply #39 on: 06 January 2018, 15:04:36 »

You're not comparing apples with apples... Those seventeen amendments were to the foundations of government, not laws...

Here the counties don't have their own laws... Sure there's the odd archaic parish or district bylaw, but not keeping sheep on a Sunday is not the same as the right to bear arms.

No, just showing the two systems and how difficult it is for the US Congress to change Law.

It is 27 amendments to date that have been ratified and allow for changes to take place to US law.  As I emphasised, Gun Law changes cannot happen due to the 2nd Amendment, and this ius a good example of the problem.  This shows how the US Constitution is so different to the UK's unwritten / uncodified constitution, made up of thousands of documents of changes to our laws through what has been experienced in practice, such as in the beginning the final Magna Carta of 1225, that has allowed for a far greater degree of flexibility in changing law quickly if necessary via Acts of Parliament and court orders for example.

Iran is a long, long way from any thought of this process, let alone actually achieving it. As already said by me, 400 years is a possible time scale when you look at history. ;)
« Last Edit: 06 January 2018, 15:06:09 by Lizzie Zoom »
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