Topic: Swirl valves (Read 3526 times)

firstomega · « **on:** 17 January 2018, 22:46:06 »

Hello Everyone...turning to you for help please. My beloved Omega, 2.2cc DTI Saloon year 2001...started to run so badly it became impossible to drive. The Engine Management Light came on and I seeded to have lost all compression and couldnt get any speed up even with my foot to the accelerator floor. So limping back I asked a mechanic to come round (not my mechanic but a friends as I was staying with her for a few days). Anyway he put his diagnostic reader on it and then messed about cleaning a little sticky oil from top of the edges of the EGR pipe and opened up the air inlet pipe and kept telling me the problem was not enough diesel in my car. Highly suspicious of his diagnosis I duly bought and put diesel in but it made no difference.Then he insisted that my petrol gauge was faulty which it had never been before. Finally he told me the car was fixed so I paid him (a lot of money) and he left. I drove off to go home but it broke down exact same as before after about 5 hilly miles so I limped back to my friends and called mechanic back. A few days later he arrived and re fixed the car. In short he came back five times and after each time announced my car fixed. I drove one minute or less each time and the EML came back on and exact same symptoms. Finally many days later and on his fifth fix he said it is okay and I was able to drive well back home 50 miles. Next day it drove okay and I did about 20 miles in total. Next day it starts to run rough again. The mechanic had told me that it was the swirl valve that was at fault and this had shown on his diagnostic. He said to fix it finally he had waggled the little lever where the swirl valves are and that had freed them from carbon. He told me I needed to replace a swirl valve. He said that if it ran rough after a cold night that I should waggle that swirl valve a bit till the new valve was replaced. Anyway so now miles away from this mechanic it is now when idling showing the revs going up and down from 200 revs to 1000 revs and back down and up again. It had never done this before. EML is on again sometimes but when I get into fourth or fifth it is running okay. Anyway I spoke to my own mechanic who I trust a lot and he told me the swirl valve is clogging up. He tried to tell me on the phone how to find this lever to jiggle the valve but I cant find it. He also said that he thinks the swirl valves are a nuisance and suggests that when I get to him he will disconnect them in such a way that they remain open but the EML will not know this so wont show up but the EML will come up for all other problems in the future (which is what I want). My mechanic I trust but he is 50 miles from me so we have made an arrangement for him to do my car when I am near him which is in a month. In the meantime he said it wont do any harm to drive my car as it is. I am concerned the plastic top on the swirl valve wont break off and drop in the engine and break it completely which is something I have read on google. Basically can anyone give me an idea how to find the swirl valve lever to waggle it as I cannot feel it with my hand despite lots of trying and also what are your opinions on disconnecting the swirl valves completely. Are they really a nuisance or are they necessary? And any other thoughts on this please. By the way my mechanic looked up the friends mechanic and has found out he is supposed to be a ditch digger and not a mechanic but that is by the by......any and all help much appreciated. I already paid a lot to the last mechanic who doesnt seem to have helped at all and I very much would like to keep my Omega going as I love it so much....it is my first Omega and I really hope it is just this swirl valve problem? Any ideas anyone please? Do I need to replace these swirl valves which my mechanic says will be costly or is detaching them the best route to take? Thank you everyone....

Chazza12 · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 January 2018, 23:14:43 »

https://youtu.be/minIa_3_CRQ this may help you
and this is fitting them from new. https://youtu.be/Dcg2HtO-hfI covers most engines, well helps you understand how they work

ajsphead · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 January 2018, 07:44:26 »

DTi is a bit more basic than the later CDTi models. It doesn't have a swirl valve so you'll be struggling to find one and any associated levers.

EGR valve is more likely but I suggest you get a code reader (cheaper than your mechanic) plug it in and see what it says. In the meantime, you could take apart the re-breathing and induction systems and give it all a jolly good clean. It doesn't even have a throttle body, so no need to worry about that either. Just steer clear of the MAF sensor.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 January 2018, 07:52:37 »

It does have swirl valves......as does the 2.0 Dti.

The only fix is to remove the inlet manifold and clean them, and the inlet ports on the heads, of crudd......and there will be a LOT!

Messing with the actuator level will do nothing.

ajsphead · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 January 2018, 08:13:42 »

Sorry, momentarily muddled with a different car. Swirl flaps in the DTI rarely give any trouble but if they are filthy to the point where they don't work then the rest of the system will be pretty horrendous and the EGR is likely to not work properly either.

Give yourself a day and be prepared to get very dirty. Fiddling with the actuators will have no effect at all. Even if you don't have the tools then buying a manual and the tools and doing it yourself will still be a lot cheaper than paying a mechanic to tell you nothing and do marginally less.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 January 2018, 08:18:50 »

Here is the ones on a 2.0 Dti:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=138958.msg1792548#msg1792548

firstomega · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 January 2018, 09:53:48 »

Thank you everyone for all your posts and links. I have now looked at and understood all your replies and watched the you tube links and the other link showing me the crud and how it is cleaned and what it looks like when cleaned. Nearly last question which has not been answered yet please......is it okay in your opinions to detach the swirl valves completely? That is the cheapest option my mechanic tells me if I dont want to have to spend lots of money buying the entire swirl valve unit and then pay him half a day to do this for me. I have to say that my mechanic (not the mechanic of my friend) is a really decent chap and a very competent mechanic and extremely honest. He is a friend to me as well as being a mechanic but of course business is business and he has his own garage and I must pay him for his labour if he fixes my car friend or not.....so can it be deactivated in your opinions or would this be detrimental thing to do for the engine. Thank you everyone for helping me with this....I am sadly a very ignorant woman when it comes to engines and understanding them but with your help I am learning a lot and quickly so massive thanks to all you guys who know what you are doing. Last question on this....I have searched for a manual for this vehicle Omega 2.2cc year 2001 DTI and have been unable to find one. Has anyone any idea where I can get a manual for it or workshop manual a bit like a Haynes workshop manual or equivalent please.....Thank you again...really appreciate your help....and this forum which is simply fantastic and a great community spirit to help.....

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 January 2018, 10:01:19 »

Vectra C manual covers the 2.2dti...

But you haven't read the previous replies...

Strip it down, clean it, rebuild it as designed, have no further issues.

Removing the flaps isn't going to change the build up of crud in the intake system, which is the actual cause of your problem...

ajsphead · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 January 2018, 11:15:01 »

As DG said, Vectra C diesel manual covers the DTi.

Do not disconnect the swirl valves. Clean them and ensure they work properly. With them removed, there is some experience of throwing EMLs because the air flow at low revs exceeds parameters. They are also there to make the engine work more efficiently.

However, do not just clean them, but clean the rest of the pipework too, there's no point cleaning the end of the system if everything before it is still filthy. If the EGR is also at fault then that may have to be cleaned, replaced, blanked off or mapped out for the problem to go away completely.

I hope your mechanic does the job as thoroughly as we would with our own cars. Oh, and just because you are a woman doesn't mean you can't get stuck in if you want to.

firstomega · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 January 2018, 14:10:56 »

Thank you all again for your replies. Yes I have read and understood all the replies and checked out the links to you tube and other link to relevant stuff on this site posted last March 2017. I didnt know that the Vectra manual will cover my car engine. That is great to know. I want to get the manual before I do anything. Is this like a proper workshop manual? Where can I obtain it buy it? That would be so great to have the manual. Please if anyone knows where I can buy this please let me know or download it please? I will certainly get stuck in and have no objection to that but wanted to explain that I am pretty ignorant but learning....thank you all so much. Thanks for answering my questions too as I have a much better understanding now of what is going on. Ignorance may be bliss but learning is much more exciting and useful!!

Chazza12 · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 January 2018, 17:33:08 »

Admin edit - link removed.

firstomega · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 January 2018, 00:20:41 »

Chazza12 Thanks ever so much for the link to the Vectra Manual. Probably a silly question this for you but this is for a Vectra 2005 to 2008. My Omega is 2001. Will it still be okay for my vehicle? Thanks ever so much for letting me know.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 January 2018, 04:54:51 »

Quote from: firstomega on 19 January 2018, 00:20:41

Chazza12 Thanks ever so much for the link to the Vectra Manual. Probably a silly question this for you but this is for a Vectra 2005 to 2008. My Omega is 2001. Will it still be okay for my vehicle? Thanks ever so much for letting me know.

Ideally you need the one for 2002-2005

ajsphead · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 January 2018, 07:31:24 »

Quote from: Doctor Gollum on 19 January 2018, 04:54:51

Quote from: firstomega on 19 January 2018, 00:20:41
Chazza12 Thanks ever so much for the link to the Vectra Manual. Probably a silly question this for you but this is for a Vectra 2005 to 2008. My Omega is 2001. Will it still be okay for my vehicle? Thanks ever so much for letting me know.
Ideally you need the one for 2002-2005

This is the manual I use.

https://haynes.com/en-gb/vauxhall/vectra/2002-2005

although the pre 2001 vectra also uses the 2.2 DTI engine.

firstomega · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 January 2018, 20:19:31 »

Thank you ever so much for your helpful replies. Firstly I need to apologise for not replying till now. I havent been on the site due to too much to do with other stuff and not enough time. I have looked at the links and thanks again for all of that. First question to Chazza12 is why was the link you sent removed by Admin please? I am asking as I would hate to do something wrong on the site inadvertently through sheer ignorance of any rules here so any explanation would be great to let me know so I dont make any mistakes myself. As for the other links, I have looked at previous manuals Haynes now on line through your links and found one which is 99 to 02 for the Vectra including diesel 2.2cc. However this is the repair and maintenance manual. What I am really after is a workshop manual for my vehicle so if there is a workshop manual for a Vectra that will be good for my Omega 2.2cc DTI year 2001 then that would be fantastic. Anyone know please. I am happy to pay for a manual or download or if anyone has one they dont want and would like to sell? Just to add here....suddenly my Omega is not playing up. I have done nothing to it since I last wrote on here. But out of the blue it is driving fine. It is crazy I know but that is what is happening. The only difference that although very wet due to lots of rain the weather has warmed up a couple of degrees. Can the swirl valves be affected by the temperature? I realise this may be a very silly question so please dont all laugh at me at once but I cannot come up with anything else that has changed to make it drive fine now? Thank you to every one - you have all be so helpful and I love this forum very much. A great place to turn for guidance and advice and a great community spirit of helping out. Thank you!!

firstomega · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 January 2018, 20:34:07 »

Since my last post of a couple of minutes ago I have searched Mr Google. Ended up in ebay. Looking I can see that there are lots of Workshop manuals for the Vectra including DTI 2.2cc for the years 2002 to 2005 but not for 1999 to 2002 with DTI 2.2cc. The only thing I can find for 99 to 02 is the service and repair (which you kindly sent me in links) but really I prefer the workshop manual. So will the 02 to 05 workshop manual be okay for my DTI 2.2cc Omega year 2001?
Another quick question is this and again I apologise up front for the perhaps stupidity of my question. On the back of the vehicle and its log book it says it is a DTI. However today I saw on the drivers door internal that it also says CDX. Does this mean that my Omega is really a CDTI or just a DTI or what does CDX mean please? Thank you all for your help.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 January 2018, 21:44:46 »

Firstly, link was probably to an illegal copy of the manual

Secondly, that manual will be fine for your Omega, but you still need an Omega one for the rest of it.

Lastly, your Omega is a 2.2dti CDX. Omega is the model, 2.2dti is the engine, CDX is the trim level/specification

firstomega · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 January 2018, 20:00:19 »

Doctor Gollum Thank you very much for your reply explaining all that to me. I understand now why that link was removed. Great and thanks for explaining. The O2 to 05 Vectra workshop manual will be good for my Omega engine which is great. Where on earth can I find please a manual for the rest of my Omega though as you said I need one for the rest of it. I have looked online and cant find one anywhere. Do you have any ideas please? Also my car is now driving fine without me having touched the swirl valves. Go figure?
Why on earth it would suddenly be okay I have absolutely no idea!! Can the swirl valves have just rid themselves of the crud that was on them? Any ideas? Thank you so much for all your help very gratefully received...Oh by the way Doctor Gollum and everyone I just came on to this forum and saw that my above post which I wrote and thought I had posted had not in fact be posted due to the fact that my session had time expired...I didnt realise this then but luckily I kept a copy of what I posted so was able to do a copy and post of this so didnt need to retype it all. But wanted to explain why so long before my reply - thanks again Doctor Gollum.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 January 2018, 21:31:24 »

Haynes only did one manual for the Omega... '94-'99...

It covers pre and mid facelift cars... Yours is post facelift, but the fundamental bits such as suspension and gearbox are the same... The wiring diagrams are still accurate enough to be useful as well

firstomega · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 January 2018, 04:11:06 »

Doctor Gollum Thank you!!!! I have found it the manual online free download! So now I have the Vectra 02 to 05 owners workshop manual for the engine of my car and the Haynes service and repair manual 94 to 99 (free download) for all the other stuff! Absolutely brilliant! Thank you so much Doctor Gollum for all your help and special thanks also to Chazza12 and everyone else whose names not mentioned here on this post but who kindly gave also your kind assistance to me. Cannot thank all of you enough. I am so grateful to you all....of course Law of Murphy that now I have all this the car has started behaving itself...lol...but for next time which I hope there isnt but if there is at least I also have the manuals to refer to....and this wonderful forum and all your help. Thank you all very much!!!!!!!! I love my Omega and this forum too...has got to be the most helpful and friendly forum ever. Thanks!!

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Author Topic: Swirl valves (Read 3526 times)