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Author Topic: Might be interesting  (Read 2995 times)

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BazaJT

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Might be interesting
« on: 24 February 2018, 19:22:36 »

Monday night on Channel 5 at 9pm the first of a two part documentary charting the history of the Flying Scotsman and exploring why this particular engine inspires such affection amongst steam fans.
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STEMO

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #1 on: 24 February 2018, 19:53:28 »

I'll get me anorak out  :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #2 on: 24 February 2018, 20:08:45 »

Yes, a long story of the countries favourite locomotive that keeps on steaming along. Well at least it does again now after the most costly renovation of any preserved loco after being saved for the nation in 2004. 8) 8) 8) :y
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Bigron

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #3 on: 24 February 2018, 20:19:42 »

I will definitely watch it, but surely as it was made in England, by English engineers, operated from England and also restored in England, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it the Flying Englishman?

Ron.
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Olympia5776

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #4 on: 24 February 2018, 21:08:22 »

I will definitely watch it, but surely as it was made in England, by English engineers, operated from England and also restored in England, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it the Flying Englishman?

Ron.

No.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #5 on: 24 February 2018, 21:13:12 »

I will definitely watch it, but surely as it was made in England, by English engineers, operated from England and also restored in England, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it the Flying Englishman?

Ron.

No.

Indeed no, as the engine was given that name by the LNER as the chief engine of the A3 fleet to pull from 1924 the famous express train called The Flying Scotsman which had run since 1862. That is history and the name can never be altered without upset millions of people ;)
« Last Edit: 24 February 2018, 21:15:51 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Varche

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #6 on: 24 February 2018, 22:20:45 »

Been on Portillo at 6.30 for last week. Repeat to boot.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #7 on: 25 February 2018, 11:24:55 »

I will definitely watch it, but surely as it was made in England, by English engineers, operated from England and also restored in England, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it the Flying Englishman?

Ron.

No.

Indeed no, as the engine was given that name by the LNER as the chief engine of the A3 fleet to pull from 1924 the famous express train called The Flying Scotsman which had run since 1862. That is history and the name can never be altered without upset millions of people ;)

I would also add that the designer of the A3 class of locomotives, along with many others of the LNER, was Sir Nigel Greasley, who was born in Edinburgh.  This famous CME of the LNER was one of the greatest of his era, Sir William Stanier of the rival LMS being the other. ;)

The two CME's were at the forefront of the pre-war race to provide the public with the fastest express trains to the north from London.  Gresley had his famous streamlined A4 class pull the East Coast expresses including the Silver Jubilee trains, although the latter were hauled by the likes of the A4's Sliver Fox, Silver Link, Quicksilver, and Silver King.  One of this class, Mallard, achieved the Steam World Speed Record of 126 mph. Stanier had his streamlined Duchess Class locomotives pull the famous streamlined coaches of the Coronation Scot;)

« Last Edit: 25 February 2018, 11:42:10 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #8 on: 25 February 2018, 11:44:14 »

I will definitely watch it, but surely as it was made in England, by English engineers, operated from England and also restored in England, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it the Flying Englishman?

Ron.

No.

Indeed no, as the engine was given that name by the LNER as the chief engine of the A3 fleet to pull from 1924 the famous express train called The Flying Scotsman which had run since 1862. That is history and the name can never be altered without upset millions of people ;)

I would also add that the designer of the A3 class of locomotives, along with many others of the LNER, was Sir Nigel Greasley, who was born in Edinburgh.  This famous CME of the LNER was one of the greatest of his era, Sir William Stanier of the rival LMS being the other. ;)

The two CME's were at the forefront of the pre-war race to provide the public with the fastest express trains to the north from London.  Gresley had his famous streamlined A4 class pull the East Coast expresses including the Silver Jubilee trains, although the latter were hauled by the likes of the A4's Sliver Fox, Silver Link, Quicksilver, and Silver King.  One of this class, Mallard, achieved the Steam World Speed Record of 126 mph. Stanier had his streamlined Duchess Class locomotives pull the famous streamlined coaches of the Coronation Scot.  These trains were the height of sophistication in the days before air travel took over the "race to the North". ;)

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redelitev6

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #9 on: 25 February 2018, 12:16:26 »

I will definitely watch it, but surely as it was made in England, by English engineers, operated from England and also restored in England, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it the Flying Englishman?

Ron.
The Flying multi cultural non gender specific person ?
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ronnyd

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #10 on: 25 February 2018, 17:09:28 »

I blame the SNP. :P
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BazaJT

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #11 on: 05 March 2018, 22:09:10 »

Just finished watching part 2 must say I don't think I'd have found such a programme as interesting if it'd been about a diesel locomotive.However there were two things not explained[unless I missed that bit]firstly at what point did she acquire the "blinkers" on either side of the nose?secondly what was the purpose of them?
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Mister Rog

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #12 on: 05 March 2018, 22:48:51 »

Just finished watching part 2 must say I don't think I'd have found such a programme as interesting if it'd been about a diesel locomotive.However there were two things not explained[unless I missed that bit]firstly at what point did she acquire the "blinkers" on either side of the nose?secondly what was the purpose of them?

Smoke deflectors. Intended to "deflect the smoke" upwards so the drive could see the track ahead better.

I have to say that I loved steam engines as a lad, but most modern programmes about them are all a bit romanticised and boring.

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #13 on: 06 March 2018, 13:36:55 »

Just finished watching part 2 must say I don't think I'd have found such a programme as interesting if it'd been about a diesel locomotive.However there were two things not explained[unless I missed that bit]firstly at what point did she acquire the "blinkers" on either side of the nose?secondly what was the purpose of them?

Smoke deflectors. Intended to "deflect the smoke" upwards so the drive could see the track ahead better.

I have to say that I loved steam engines as a lad, but most modern programmes about them are all a bit romanticised and boring.

Indeed. :y

Nigel Gresley the CME of the LNER and the chief designer of the A1/A3 class that included Flying Scotsman (built 1923), started to experiment with smoke deflectors after enginemen complained about drifting smoke obscuring their view after the A1's were rebuilt as A3 with high pressure larger boilers after 1928.  This followed an accident with LMSR Royal Scot class 4-6-0 engine in 1931 caused by smoke obscuring the driver's vision. Although other engines of the LNER, such as the A2's, did receive smoke deflectors, and a handful of A3's were fitted with changing designs of them, 4472 Flying Scotsman was amoungst many that did not have them fitted at that time. Strangely, given steam was on borrowed time, it was not until 1960 that the German style "trough" deflectors started to be fitted to the A3's, and eventually Flying Scotsman herself.  When Alan Pegler bought the engine after it's withdrawal in 1963 he removed them, along with reverting to a single chimney.  The most recent restoration has now restored the "trough" style deflectors visible in the documentary. ;)
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BazaJT

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #14 on: 06 March 2018, 19:19:12 »

There you go you see,that's something else I've learned today......not that it'll do me a blind bit of good,but learning all the same :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #15 on: 06 March 2018, 20:30:58 »

There you go you see,that's something else I've learned today......not that it'll do me a blind bit of good,but learning all the same :y

 :y

I would add for your information Baza that LMSR engines did not have smoke deflectors fitted originally, and only the 4-6-2 Pacific Turbomotive class engine had them fitted in 1939.  Thereafter the previously streamlined 4-6-2 Pacific Duchess class locomotives had them fitted after being rebuilt, but that was in the early days of British Railways from 1948.  From that time the British Railways large 'Standard' engines, such as the 4-6-2's and 2-10-0 9F's had large deflectors as an integral part of the original design.

The GWR never adopted the smoke deflectors, but the SR did, with experiments by their CME, R.E. Maunsell on some classes of engines from 1927.  Later SR 4-6-2 Merchant Navy and West Country / Battle of Britain class engines designed by Oliver Bulleid were streamlined, as engineering practice favoured during the late 1930's, and built from 1941 onwards with various versions of built in deflectors.  Like the LMS streamliners, British Rail rebuilt these SR streamliners from 1956 onwards with large smoke deflectors. Other SR 4-6-0 classes of passenger and freight engines were also blessed with deflectors by British Railways.

Apart from the previously described LNER A3's that eventually had deflectors fitted, Gresley's A4's were streamlined so did not need them, and as they were kept in streamlined form by BR, never had them fitted. Only Gresley's six 2-8-2 P2 class locomotives were built with integral deflectors from new in 1934. Gresley's also fitted deflectors to his two 2-8-2 P2 Mikados engines. His experimental 4-6-4 high pressure engine, No1000, built in 1929 also had a streamlined form with integral deflectors.

I hope that is all of interest ;)
« Last Edit: 06 March 2018, 20:49:24 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Mister Rog

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #16 on: 06 March 2018, 22:58:04 »

Just finished watching part 2 must say I don't think I'd have found such a programme as interesting if it'd been about a diesel locomotive.However there were two things not explained[unless I missed that bit]firstly at what point did she acquire the "blinkers" on either side of the nose?secondly what was the purpose of them?

Smoke deflectors. Intended to "deflect the smoke" upwards so the drive could see the track ahead better.

I have to say that I loved steam engines as a lad, but most modern programmes about them are all a bit romanticised and boring.


However      ::) . . . . dare I suggest that they also looked "cooler" and made locomotives look a bit more serious, macho, and impressive rather than something from Thomas The Tank Engine ?

 
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #17 on: 07 March 2018, 10:10:28 »

Just finished watching part 2 must say I don't think I'd have found such a programme as interesting if it'd been about a diesel locomotive.However there were two things not explained[unless I missed that bit]firstly at what point did she acquire the "blinkers" on either side of the nose?secondly what was the purpose of them?

Smoke deflectors. Intended to "deflect the smoke" upwards so the drive could see the track ahead better.

I have to say that I loved steam engines as a lad, but most modern programmes about them are all a bit romanticised and boring.


However      ::) . . . . dare I suggest that they also looked "cooler" and made locomotives look a bit more serious, macho, and impressive rather than something from Thomas The Tank Engine ?

Strangely the question of appearance is the reason why they were not fitted as early as many continental railway engines were. The British believed most of their passenger engines looked aesthetically beautiful and pleasing to the eye unlike their continental counterparts which had a cluttered appearances with air brake pumps, pipes everywhere, bulges of all kinds and those smoke deflectors!!  Therefore deflectors were not fitted for some time after it became very apparent it would be a good idea.  Eventually the practicalities and questions of Health & Safety ruled, and certainly by BR days, as I previously explained, most large classes of engines were so blessed.

By the time of my childhood smoke deflectors were part of the lovely appearance of British express passenger classes of locomotives.  But, when you looked at the ex-LMSR 4-6-2 Princess and ex-GWR passenger classes of locomotives  that never were fitted with deflectors, even in BR days, you recognised, as I still do, how pleasing to the eye those engines are, and earlier generations were right in their views about "cluttered" looking loco's. ;)
« Last Edit: 07 March 2018, 10:18:09 by Lizzie Zoom »
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BazaJT

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #18 on: 07 March 2018, 19:10:27 »

Thanks for the detailed replies Lizzie they are indeed of interest,although as I've said in the grand scheme of things none of it will do me any good but I like learning new stuff all the time from wherever I can :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Might be interesting
« Reply #19 on: 07 March 2018, 20:10:15 »

Thanks for the detailed replies Lizzie they are indeed of interest,although as I've said in the grand scheme of things none of it will do me any good but I like learning new stuff all the time from wherever I can :y

Thanks Baza :y :y

Yes, that is why I study many sectors of history, railway history being one :-* ;)
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