Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BazaJT]

In the next few days/weeks the East Coast Mainline-currently run under the Virgin Trains name will be changed[don't know whether it'll be same company running it or a different one]and it will then become LNER-hardly an original name but there you go.Of course whether the service will improve or not is an entirely different kettle of fish.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Well I'm a sucker for nostalgia, so this is 'good' (though how it will improve anything, I don't know, but that's another story.) Thanks for the info mate 

[Doctor Gollum]

If 'Southern' is anything to go by, rose tints and sepia will only allow so much tolerance...

[Bigron]

Late and Never Early Railway? 

Ron.

[Kevin Wood]

If 'Southern' is anything to go by, rose tints and sepia will only allow so much tolerance...

What's the expression? You can't polish a turd.*



* - Actually, it turns out that you can https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI, but it's still a turd.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

maybe LNER should use this mythbusters clip in their ad campaigns?

[aaronjb]

* - Actually, it turns out that you can https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI, but it's still a turd.

  One of my favourite segments..

[Mister Rog]

They resurrected the "GWR" branding and colours for London to S Wales and the West. Looks nice but service didn't change much.
 

[Bigron]

That's because Isambard is no longer in charge of God's Wonderful Railway...

Ron.

[Rods2]

Does this mean we can look forward to the reintroduction and daily run for the A3 Pacific The Flying Scotsman and the preserved A4s like Sir Nigel Gresley and Mallard?

[Bigron]

Wow, yes PLEASE!
Bags I get to drive the Mallard 

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

That's because Isambard is no longer in charge of God's Wonderful Railway...

Ron.

He never was in charge Ron, but certainly set the Company's future with the great main line and much of the infrastructure we remember, and can see, today.  No, others directed the Company's day to day running and amoungst the names over the three distinct periods of the GWR';s history throughout the 19th century is Daniel Gooch, later Sir Gooch.  Appointed by Isambard as the railway's first Locomotive Superintendent in 1840, creating many important locomotives and suggesting the site of the GWR Swindon Locomotive Works, he later became Chairman of the Company in 1865, after finally retiring from his post of Locomotive Superintendent in 1864, and saved the GWR from potential financial ruin.  He continued in this post very successfully until his death in 1889, although his contribution to the GWR declined with his health in the final years.  Others followed him, but he is THE key name in GWR history, not forgetting he was also chairman of the company who laid the first two trans Atlantic telegraph cables.

[Bigron]

Ok Lizzie, but for me he will always be GWR. What a pity that his broad gauge system wasn't adopted universally; we would have had a safer network with greatly improved carrying capacity.
We still don't listen to good engineering advice, do we? I have a list.....

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

In the next few days/weeks the East Coast Mainline-currently run under the Virgin Trains name will be changed[don't know whether it'll be same company running it or a different one]and it will then become LNER-hardly an original name but there you go.Of course whether the service will improve or not is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The truly great days of the LNER after 1923 when it was formed, until the 1930's, were short and destined to dramatically decline alongside the fortunes of the coal, steel, and ship building industries throughout the North East of England with a major world depression and the steady loss of supremacy of the British Engineering empire.  Even WW2 war did not revive their fortunes as the railway was run ragged, with little to no compensation.  In the run up to Nationalisation on 1st January 1948 what had been the vital, key profit maker, freight traffic did not recover and left the railway company well in the red.

It is easy to forget in the days of constant media attention on the passenger carrying results of our railways in the 21st century, that the LNER, amongst others, had some famous named passenger trains in the 1930's, but for that operation it was the freight business that was vital for it's survival.  It was built for the transport of coal, steel and other industrial raw materials, and when that business went into terminal decline the passenger business could not rescue the overall business.  Passengers complain about the price of their tickets, but today the railways existence  relies very heavily on these receipts for their profitability, and only a massive return to moving freight by rail can reverse this trend.

Expect nothing different from the new LNER; the basis of the business is still the same as it was last week!

[Lizzie Zoom]

Ok Lizzie, but for me he will always be GWR. What a pity that his broad gauge system wasn't adopted universally; we would have had a safer network with greatly improved carrying capacity.
We still don't listen to good engineering advice, do we? I have a list.....

Ron.

I agree entirely Ron, but you can blame the popularity of the other great 19th century British engineering names, the Stevenson's, for that "stupid" decision in 1845 that also kept much of Europe using the 4' 8 1/2" gauge.

[Bigron]

On the basis of what you say, Lizzie, I think that the best solution would be to concrete over all of the railway lines and convert to road traffic - maybe without speed limits, as there won't be any pedestrians to get in the way?
That's another plank in my Ministerial Transport Policy! 

Ron.

[aaronjb]

What a pity that his broad gauge system wasn't adopted universally; we would have had a safer network with greatly improved carrying capacity.

No idea what gauge is used in France, but their trains seem to work much better than ours, so I don't think the gauge is the only thing to blame!

Of course, they also have the nifty double-decker coaches most places, and they've figured out air conditioning on the Metro, unlike most of the London underground...

Given the choice of the train or a Taxi from CDG to Paris, I'd take the train every time - given the choice of the train or driving from anywhere to Heathrow, I'd drive every time

[Lizzie Zoom]

What a pity that his broad gauge system wasn't adopted universally; we would have had a safer network with greatly improved carrying capacity.

No idea what gauge is used in France, but their trains seem to work much better than ours, so I don't think the gauge is the only thing to blame!

Of course, they also have the nifty double-decker coaches most places, and they've figured out air conditioning on the Metro, unlike most of the London underground...

Given the choice of the train or a Taxi from CDG to Paris, I'd take the train every time - given the choice of the train or driving from anywhere to Heathrow, I'd drive every time

They use Standard gauge, 4 foot 8 1/2 inches, like us, as do most of Europe apart from Spain.  That is why trains can run freely through the Chunnel and travel across most of Europe.

The likes of Russia and Spain use gauges that are classed as "Broad Gauge" of around 5 foot.  However, that is NOT the Broad Gauge Brunel used and promoted of 7 foot 1/2 inch; that would have made a tremendous difference to all railway operations and their profits

[Marks DTM Calib]

What a pity that his broad gauge system wasn't adopted universally; we would have had a safer network with greatly improved carrying capacity.

No idea what gauge is used in France, but their trains seem to work much better than ours, so I don't think the gauge is the only thing to blame!

Gauge is more than the distance between rails, the UKs most limiting factor is the ancient infrastructure which restricts the height and width of rolling stock (its so bad in places specific rolling stock was produced for certain lines....Hasting branch being the classic with slimmed down Locos and trains)

[Sir Tigger KC]

They use Standard gauge, 4 foot 8 1/2 inches, like us, as do most of Europe apart from Spain.  That is why trains can run freely through the Chunnel and travel across most of Europe.

I thought they'd outlawed the use of imperial measurements in the EU, so surely that should be 2.2479m gauge?   

[LC0112G]

Gauge is more than the distance between rails, the UKs most limiting factor is the ancient infrastructure which restricts the height and width of rolling stock (its so bad in places specific rolling stock was produced for certain lines....Hasting branch being the classic with slimmed down Locos and trains)

Yep, and another daft fact was that when the Channel Tunnel first opened the Electric locos used to pull the car and lorry trains through the chunnel were too large to travel on the rail-lines to their servicing depot at Willsden Junction in North West London. So the Locos were loaded onto road transporters and driven up the M20/M25 to the depot. Barking.

[Lizzie Zoom]

What a pity that his broad gauge system wasn't adopted universally; we would have had a safer network with greatly improved carrying capacity.

No idea what gauge is used in France, but their trains seem to work much better than ours, so I don't think the gauge is the only thing to blame!

Gauge is more than the distance between rails, the UKs most limiting factor is the ancient infrastructure which restricts the height and width of rolling stock (its so bad in places specific rolling stock was produced for certain lines....Hasting branch being the classic with slimmed down Locos and trains)

Yes indeed, but we had been talking of track gauge. But you are right, and apart from the Great Central Railway main line, completed  in 1899, none of the UK's infrastructure allows for the height of railway stock, even on the ex- GWR broad gauge lines. The GRC was built with high speed running of the future in mind, with heightened structures and wide shallow cuttings, with a connection envisaged with a line to a Chunnel across to France.  It could have been the first British HS1, but as usual with the lack of imagination and faith in the railways it was closed successively in the 1960's as a Beeching casualty.

[Lizzie Zoom]

They use Standard gauge, 4 foot 8 1/2 inches, like us, as do most of Europe apart from Spain.  That is why trains can run freely through the Chunnel and travel across most of Europe.

I thought they'd outlawed the use of imperial measurements in the EU, so surely that should be 2.2479m gauge?   

I'm an Imperial minded Lady so let the Europeans call it what it likes!

...and anyway standard gauge there is 1,435 millimetres (4' 8 1/2")

As a sideline note I have always chuckled over the Spanish Canfranc International Railway Station in the Pyrenees, that was an extensive complex built to speedily handle through traffic into France and back.  However a mistake was made somewhere during the planning.  It was suddenly realised that the Spanish track gauge of 5 ft 5.8 inches (1,672 millimetres) did not match the French main line gauge of 4' 8 1/2" (1,435 millimetres)!!  Ooooops!

Up until 1970 all that meant that lengthy stops took place with an interchange of passengers between Spanish trains and French trains!

Also, as an interesting historical fact, many Nazis escaped to Spain as the Third Reich collapsed taking their looted wealth!

[TheBoy]

Remove the subsidies, and see if *anyone* can run it.  We need the money to pay for the other pink elephant, the NHS.  And now we (or the 52%) have properly buggered ourselves financially as a country, the government need to plant some money trees

[aaronjb]

Remove the subsidies, and see if *anyone* can run it.  We need the money to pay for the other pink elephant, the NHS.  And now we (or the 52%) have properly buggered ourselves financially as a country, the government need to plant some money trees

BOE says the economy is doing so well, they think interest rates should go up. So clearly you are peddling fake news  (OK, 3 of 9 say that..)

[ronnyd]

Remove the subsidies, and see if *anyone* can run it.  We need the money to pay for the other pink elephant, the NHS.  And now we (or the 52%) have properly buggered ourselves financially as a country, the government need to plant some money trees

BOE says the economy is doing so well, they think interest rates should go up. So clearly you are peddling fake news  (OK, 3 of 9 say that..)

Wasn,t it Mark Carney who was telling us how bad things were going to be if we voted to leave the corrupt EU.

[aaronjb]

Remove the subsidies, and see if *anyone* can run it.  We need the money to pay for the other pink elephant, the NHS.  And now we (or the 52%) have properly buggered ourselves financially as a country, the government need to plant some money trees

BOE says the economy is doing so well, they think interest rates should go up. So clearly you are peddling fake news  (OK, 3 of 9 say that..)

Wasn,t it Mark Carney who was telling us how bad things were going to be if we voted to leave the corrupt EU.

Apparently they've changed their minds But now Airbus are telling us they'll take 15,000 jobs out of the UK along with tens of thousands of other jobs in suppliers, if May doesn't (effectively) stay in the EU.. so maybe BOE will change their mind.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Might the well timed threats from Airbus have any connection to the fact that they have received around 10 million Euros in grants from the EU ? 
He who pays the piper...…..

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Sorry, that's wrong. Don't know what I was thinking when I typed that figure. It should have been $22 billion !!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44120525

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

My guess is big business will ensure we stay in the customs union and the single market.

So.....we won't really be leaving the EU even after we leave the EU.

[Bigron]

That means that it will return to what we originally signed up to - a European ECONOMIC Union, yes?
There was very little wrong with that; it all went sour when we were hoodwinked into converting to a Political union and allowing ourselves to be ruled by foreigners.

Ron.

[Sir Tigger KC]

That means that it will return to what we originally signed up to - a European ECONOMIC Union, yes?
There was very little wrong with that; it all went sour when we were hoodwinked into converting to a Political union and allowing ourselves to be ruled by foreigners.

Ron.

No Ron we would to all intents and purposes still be a full member of the EU, but we would have no MEP's, no EU Commissar, no British judges sitting at the ECJ, the PM would not attend meetings of the European Council, so we would have nobody fighting for our national interest in the corridors of power in Brussels! 

Oh and we would still have to pay billions to Brussels and obey all the laws, directives, rules, and regulations that we have had no say or influence over. 

[Bigron]

Not a good deal, then?

Ron.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Not a good deal, then?

Ron.

Nope and there won't be a good deal either as the EU have no interest in negotiating a deal that would be good for people and businesses across Europe.  Their sole intent is protecting 'The Project' and they will do this at any cost! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Might the well timed threats from Airbus have any connection to the fact that they have received around 10 million Euros in grants from the EU ? 
He who pays the piper...…..

Nothing to do with the fact that their white elephant has effectively ceased production

Brexit is a convenient excuse to cull 15,000 jobs that won't suddenly appear elsewhere. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Might the well timed threats from Airbus have any connection to the fact that they have received around 10 million Euros in grants from the EU ? 
He who pays the piper...…..

Nothing to do with the fact that their white elephant has effectively ceased production

Brexit is a convenient excuse to cull 15,000 jobs that won't suddenly appear elsewhere. 

And also the message was conveniently timed with the meeting of the European Council next week. 

Meanwhile the Telegraph reported that ministers response to Airbus was that if they quit the UK, they will lose the lucrative defence contracts they have with HMG! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Well it's not like we can't buy it from the US

[Sir Tigger KC]

Rather than piss our pants everytime one of the big corporates threatens to leave, we should be busy organising a regulatory approach that makes sense for companies to manufacture in the UK and still be able to sell into the EU whatever the outcome. 

Our government and the civil service need to have some guts and ambition and rather than just be content with wings being manufactured by Airbus here, we should be asking them what they would want to move their entire operation here.  Of course the leftie libtards will scream about races to the bottom and workers rights etc, but I think that with a sensible approach we could make the UK an attractive place to do business and still have good protections for workers and the environment! 

[Bigron]

Sir Tigger, you are clearly an intelligent man, but when have you known politicians to espouse the "sensible approach" History, both recent and distant, is littered with disastrous and ill-informed decisions/policies, to our cost.
If they had a clue about proper management, they would have proper jobs in industry at much more than they are earning now: clearly, they are lacking in those skills, which is why we are lumbered with them! 

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Rather than piss our pants everytime one of the big corporates threatens to leave, we should be busy organising a regulatory approach that makes sense for companies to manufacture in the UK and still be able to sell into the EU whatever the outcome. 

Our government and the civil service need to have some guts and ambition and rather than just be content with wings being manufactured by Airbus here, we should be asking them what they would want to move their entire operation here.  Of course the leftie libtards will scream about races to the bottom and workers rights etc, but I think that with a sensible approach we could make the UK an attractive place to do business and still have good protections for workers and the environment! 

Without commenting on the politics around Brexit..............you are spot on Sir Tigger.  Why does the parts of a plane travel backwards and forwards across European countries to be completed?  What was wrong with building an entire plane in one country......like Britain as we were, and still could be, the best aircraft builders in the World?!

Let's revive the great British engineering centres and skills for British workers.

[Sir Tigger KC]

This is the thing Lizzie, it's promoted as a good thing that parts and processes criss cross Europe multiple times before the end product is finished.    What of the carbon footprint and the time and costs involved in shipping bits and pieces all over the place. 

Jeremy Whine gave the example of BMW MINI the other day, where they build the engines in the West Midlands.  The crankshafts are made here, but then shipped to Belgium for polishing, before returning to the West Midlands for assembly.  I really wonder whether these decisions are made for political reasons rather than sound business reasons as I find it hard to believe that there isn't an engineering firm somewhere in the West Midlands that could polish a crankshaft.  I also find it hard to believe that a Belgian company's cost base is significantly less than a UK firm, to the point that it is worth shipping truck loads of crankshafts to Belgium and back.    Given that they churn out 800 MINI's a day at Cowley, thats a lot of trucks shuttling back and forth! 

[Lizzie Zoom]

This is the thing Lizzie, it's promoted as a good thing that parts and processes criss cross Europe multiple times before the end product is finished.    What of the carbon footprint and the time and costs involved in shipping bits and pieces all over the place. 

Jeremy Whine gave the example of BMW MINI the other day, where they build the engines in the West Midlands.  The crankshafts are made here, but then shipped to Belgium for polishing, before returning to the West Midlands for assembly.  I really wonder whether these decisions are made for political reasons rather than sound business reasons as I find it hard to believe that there isn't an engineering firm somewhere in the West Midlands that could polish a crankshaft.  I also find it hard to believe that a Belgian company's cost base is significantly less than a UK firm, to the point that it is worth shipping truck loads of crankshafts to Belgium and back.    Given that they churn out 800 MINI's a day at Cowley, thats a lot of trucks shuttling back and forth! 

Indeed, all examples of daft policies, and for me used to dealing with high level corporate finances, I just cannot see that is at all good for the bottom line profitability of those companies.  So much potential profit must be lost in that "criss crossing" game.

Perhaps with us out of the European pact, we can again be allowed to build things in a complete sense, with increased job and profit potential.

[Kevin Wood]

Without commenting on the politics around Brexit..............you are spot on Sir Tigger.  Why does the parts of a plane travel backwards and forwards across European countries to be completed?  What was wrong with building an entire plane in one country......like Britain as we were, and still could be, the best aircraft builders in the World?!

Let's revive the great British engineering centres and skills for British workers.

.. because otherwise the French get in a tizz. It's exactly the same reason the EU parliament have to waste money relocating between Brussels and Strasbourg.