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[tunnie]

Stumbled across this:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

It states that cars registered prior to 2002 should not use it, given Omega's engines date essentially from 90's guess it's going to be a problem?

However:

"Drivers are advised to contact car manufacturers with any questions surrounding their specific vehicle. For example, Vauxhall says “E10 fuel can be used in all petrol-engine Vauxhall vehicles except models with the 2.2-litre direct-injection petrol engine (code Z22YH) used in Vectra, Signum and Zafira.”

As they mention Signum/Vectra that's not been in production for years, suggest GM V6 still good?

Rumoured E10 fuel will start to be sold here soon, to meet emissions targets.   

[tunnie]

Article is a bit old, but nice and clear as there are some fresh news circling about it's introduction.

eg:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/27/older-ford-escorts-nissan-micras-cannot-use-new-e10-fuel-warn/

[biggriffin]

I'd be more concerned about fuel lines perish-ing.

[STEMO]

e5 will still be available for older cars, so nothing to stop you using that.

[tunnie]

e5 will still be available for older cars, so nothing to stop you using that.

Roll out in Germany and other countries has been quite aggressive though, with older 95/E5 stuff harder to get.

As can't see garages installing additional pumps, wonder if E10 and only Super Unleaded would be offered on the petrol pumps, as normally only 2 types of petrol offered.

[STEMO]

e5 will still be available for older cars, so nothing to stop you using that.

Roll out in Germany and other countries has been quite aggressive though, with older 95/E5 stuff harder to get.

As can't see garages installing additional pumps, wonder if E10 and only Super Unleaded would be offered on the petrol pumps, as normally only 2 types of petrol offered.

That's not what the article says, and garages will offer whatever sells. Changes like this don't happen overnight and, if e5 did start getting hard to find, the loss of a few old bangers wouldn't really matter that much.

[tunnie]

Just reading various articles, snippets from EU forums, suggests though they cannot "offer what ever sells"

It will be a government push.... still looks like another nail for the Omega, to add to the impending rust doom.

Along with London's ULEZ, if that gets pushed out just 2 miles from it's current proposed route, it would be bean tins for my 3.2 

[STEMO]

Just reading various articles, snippets from EU forums, suggests though they cannot "offer what ever sells"

It will be a government push.... still looks like another nail for the Omega, to add to the impending rust doom.

Along with London's ULEZ, if that gets pushed out just 2 miles from it's current proposed route, it would be bean tins for my 3.2 

Like I said, in the great scheme of things.........no great loss. Sooner or later, old gas guzzlers will be banned, as will dirty diesels.
Look at the news today about what air pollution is doing to people in the worlds biggest cities. Particularly look at the picture of the very young Chinese child , peering through the smog in it's mothers arms, with it's 'gas mask' on.

[STEMO]

The news is on now. Go on, have a look.

I'd give up my car for an electric one in an instant, and will do when they become more usable.

[STEMO]

I think Theresa May has been breathing in smog 

[tunnie]

I'd give up my car for an electric one in an instant, and will do when they become more usable.

... and cheaper... a lot cheaper. When can I buy one for less than a grand and with some tinkering keep it going. 

[STEMO]

I'd give up my car for an electric one in an instant, and will do when they become more usable.

... and cheaper... a lot cheaper. When can I buy one for less than a grand and with some tinkering keep it going. 

Cube your omega, Tunnie, your children will thank you for it.   

[tunnie]

I'd give up my car for an electric one in an instant, and will do when they become more usable.

... and cheaper... a lot cheaper. When can I buy one for less than a grand and with some tinkering keep it going. 

Cube your omega, Tunnie, your children will thank you for it.   

But Daddy wants to own a V8 once in his life

[STEMO]

I'd give up my car for an electric one in an instant, and will do when they become more usable.

... and cheaper... a lot cheaper. When can I buy one for less than a grand and with some tinkering keep it going. 

Cube your omega, Tunnie, your children will thank you for it.   

But Daddy wants to own a V8 once in his life

I'm sure your asthmatic children will understand. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

But Daddy wants to own a V8 once in his life

I think that you'll have to make do with one of these Tunnie! 

[dave the builder]

The news is on now. Go on, have a look.

I'd give up my car for an electric one in an instant, and will do when they become more usable.

local electric car clicky  

[aaronjb]

But Daddy wants to own a V8 once in his life

You better get on that now, then, because in 10 years there might not be any left if miserable old crones like STEMOTheresa May have their way 

[Nick W]

I'd be more concerned about fuel lines perish-ing.

Which is what the report actually says. Or so the author tells me. His opinion is that it's going to be a limited problem, corrected by time and the diminishing stock of Rover 75s

[TheBoy]

Having spent the last 2 miserable days in Londonium, the best thing they could do is take the congestion charge out a lot further, and bump up the costs. Same charges have to apply to buses and cabs, though.

Why oh why oh why anyone wants to visit or even live there remains a complete mystery.

[Kevin Wood]

Having spent the last 2 miserable days in Londonium, the best thing they could do is take the congestion charge out a lot further, and bump up the costs. Same charges have to apply to buses and cabs, though. drop a nucear weapon...

Why oh why oh why anyone wants to visit or even live there remains a complete mystery.

FTFY

[aaronjb]

Having spent the last 2 miserable days in Londonium, the best thing they could do is take the congestion charge out a lot further, and bump up the costs. Same charges have to apply to buses and cabs, though. drop a nucear weapon...

Why oh why oh why anyone wants to visit or even live there remains a complete mystery.

FTFY

I think you might be a bit too close for the fallout if they do that, Kevin!

[LC0112G]

Having spent the last 2 miserable days in Londonium, the best thing they could do is take the congestion charge out a lot further, and bump up the costs. Same charges have to apply to buses and cabs, though.

Why oh why oh why anyone wants to visit or even live there remains a complete mystery.

The Ultra Low Emmission Zone (ULEZ) is being extended out to the North/South Circulars in 2021. You need a EURO Cat4 car to drive inside the zone, or you will have to pay the ULEZ charge. Petrol Omegas (well my 3.0 V6 anyway) are EURO Cat 3. The ULEZ charge is in addition to the congestion charge.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

When I checked on the TFL website, I was surprised to find that my 3.2 wont be subject to the charge. Thing is, I usually go there in the 190 which will be subject to the charge, but almost zero fuel costs. So it will cost much the same whichever car I use in future. 

[Doctor Gollum]

The only official Euro4 Omega is an '03 2.2 manual...

Desmond has his uses

[STEMO]

When I checked on the TFL website, I was surprised to find that my 3.2 wont be subject to the charge. Thing is, I usually go there in the 190 which will be subject to the charge, but almost zero fuel costs. So it will cost much the same whichever car I use in future. 

My 2014 dirty diesel would be charged. So...I can either buy a cleaner vehicle, or never, ever go anywhere near London. Difficult one........

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

My daughter lives there and loves the place, so I don't have much choice. Tbh, I enjoy a few hours there but wouldn't want to live there.

[aaronjb]

My daughter lives there and loves the place, so I don't have much choice. Tbh, I enjoy a few hours there but wouldn't want to live there.

Likewise - to the second sentence, I don't have any daughters (that I know of) nor do I visit yours

I think I could even stand to commute in and work there .. there is plenty to "look at" in summer, that's for sure!

[Omegatoy]

being  born in london,

Absolutely hate what it has become now,
I wont even visit the place,its run by an idiot of a mayor who thinks he should comment on everything that happens in london,he just happens to be the barrister that speciailised in defending muslim terrorists and is one himself, filthy,stinks,costs are sky high including fuel,and the people are miserable,
its only saving grace is the sky high wages, if you bought your house 36years ago you can enjoy the money and leave to a healthy life of leisure

[STEMO]

being  born in london,

Absolutely hate what it has become now,
I wont even visit the place,its run by an idiot of a mayor who thinks he should comment on everything that happens in london,he just happens to be the barrister that speciailised in defending muslim terrorists and is one himself, filthy,stinks,costs are sky high including fuel,and the people are miserable,
its only saving grace is the sky high wages, if you bought your house 36years ago you can enjoy the money and leave to a healthy life of leisure

You're not thinking of moving back then?

[Rods2]

Ethanol is between 0.8:1 and 1.3:1 EROEI efficient. The 0.8:1 means 20% (most likely fossil fuel) energy supplement must be added to make it compared to what you get back. The low EROEI also makes it expensive to produce, so it needs taxpayer subsidies and has only about 2/3 the energy density of pure petrol, so you will get 4% less fuel consumption from E10.

http://energy-reality.org/biofuels/

In 20-50 years time if what are currently the two hottest topics of climate change at the moment, which are that the main drivers of earth temperature are atmospheric pressure which is a function of gravity and atmospheric density and the variance on the amount of heat from the sun reaching the earth, which is a cyclic but fairly constant heat output source but they are finding the sun-earth magnetic alignment, sun sports and solar storms and other factors affect the solar wind and has a much bigger effect than currently understood or modeled in climate change models. CO2 may yet prove to be a red herring. There are also considerable difficulties in the understanding on how much man-made CO2 can be attributed in any confidence to us. Remote sensing of earth temperatures from satellites is also far from settled science as that is also difficult to factor in land temperatures compared to atmospheric temperatures and these have to be adjusted for, the different satellite setups using different algorithms of different accuracy.

[Kevin Wood]

.. not to mention that burning food in our cars while we are struggling to feed the world's increasing population feels wrong.

[Sir Tigger KC]

After reading this thread I expect that even Lord Opti is considering switching to DERV!   

[biggriffin]

After reading this thread I expect that even Lord Opti is considering switching to DERV!   

. 

The words help and freezing come to mind, or he'd rather try gentleman sausage before buying a canal boat fuelled shed.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

After reading this thread I expect that even Lord Opti is considering switching to DERV!   

. 

The words help and freezing come to mind, or he'd rather try gentleman sausage before buying a canal boat fuelled shed.

Yep....let us hope the demise of derv is swift.

[STEMO]

After reading this thread I expect that even Lord Opti is considering switching to DERV!   

. 

The words help and freezing come to mind, or he'd rather try gentleman sausage before buying a canal boat fuelled shed.

Yep....let us hope the demise of derv is swift.

Hope not. I like 90 miles for ten quid. 

[STEMO]

Hmmmm.....fuel has gone up since I did that calculation, make that 80 miles for ten quid.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Hmmmm.....fuel has gone up since I did that calculation, make that 80 miles for ten quid.

I'm sure that a small petrol car with enough room in the back for the whippet could match that.

[dave the builder]

Hmmmm.....fuel has gone up since I did that calculation, make that 80 miles for ten quid.

£10 is 2 uk gallon round these parts
surely you get better than 40 MPG in an astra running on tractor juice 

the 1.7cdti quotes 65 mpg average  (just got one for little brother)

[Nick W]

Hmmmm.....fuel has gone up since I did that calculation, make that 80 miles for ten quid.

That's about what the Metro is getting. Mostly around town

[STEMO]

Hmmmm.....fuel has gone up since I did that calculation, make that 80 miles for ten quid.

£10 is 2 uk gallon round these parts
surely you get better than 40 MPG in an astra running on tractor juice 

the 1.7cdti quotes 65 mpg average  (just got one for little brother)

1) £1.34 per litre=£6 a gallon.
2) I drive a 2.0 diesel (auto)
3) I drive in town, not mway.

[dave the builder]

yes, sorry ,google gave me US gallons 
£10 / £1.34 = 7.463 Ltr
7.463 Ltr = 1.641 UK gallon
so 80 miles = 48.75 MPG

[Omegatoy]

being  born in london,

Absolutely hate what it has become now,
I wont even visit the place,its run by an idiot of a mayor who thinks he should comment on everything that happens in london,he just happens to be the barrister that speciailised in defending muslim terrorists and is one himself, filthy,stinks,costs are sky high including fuel,and the people are miserable,
its only saving grace is the sky high wages, if you bought your house 36years ago you can enjoy the money and leave to a healthy life of leisure

You're not thinking of moving back then?

not until its been bombed out and rebuilt for proper people to live in!!

[TheBoy]

being  born in london,

Absolutely hate what it has become now,
I wont even visit the place,its run by an idiot of a mayor who thinks he should comment on everything that happens in london,he just happens to be the barrister that speciailised in defending muslim terrorists and is one himself, filthy,stinks,costs are sky high including fuel,and the people are miserable,
its only saving grace is the sky high wages, if you bought your house 36years ago you can enjoy the money and leave to a healthy life of leisure

I noticed the Shell on the Marylebone/Euston Road was £1.33, which is probably cheaper than the local BP here .  Mind you, Beaconsfield Services was 0.1p under £1.50

[Rods2]

After reading this thread I expect that even Lord Opti is considering switching to DERV!   

. 

The words help and freezing come to mind, or he'd rather try gentleman sausage before buying a canal boat fuelled shed.

I think the only tractor Lord Opti has, is for farming most of Lincoln county, his modest estate.

[Nick W]

.. not to mention that burning food in our cars while we are struggling to feed the world's increasing population feels wrong.

One of the by products of bio ethanol production is a mountain of cattle feed.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Came across this today. 

https://interestingengineering.com/video/can-ethanol-damage-a-cars-engine