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Author Topic: What are the differences between the Omega B1 and B2? Are they only cosmetic?  (Read 32007 times)

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anV6

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Thanks for the input. And I guess the MV6 just doesn't go fast enough to have the same problem, so they deleted the self leveling function for the sports suspension for some reason?

Just to pick up on this, the Elite's self levelling system does have a vehicle speed input, so it's not impossible that it is adaptive to high speed driving but, of course, the MV6 doesn't have the self levelling at all and the Elite suspension is a bit wallowy, IMHO.
Slightly off topic, but just add the Self Levelling on the stronger Police Supension setup on the Estates works well, even at speed, and either loaded or unloaded in the back.  :y

What is the difference between the stronger Police Suspension and the stock and MV6 suspensions? Thanks.

you've just said it - it's stronger. I don't think it's lower, just heavier-duty for the extra kgs that the Police cars weigh. I suppose on another Omega this may make it ride fractionally higher, actually. But that's a nitpick. It's heavier duty springs - thought someone who has owned standard LSC cars (the 'proper' name for the sports springs LSC = Lowered Sports Chassis) and Police vehicles would have to have measured/compared whether there's a ride height difference, too.

Thanks for the info! :y

OK. If it's just more heavy duty then I guess I don't need it. The consumer cars being lighter than the Police Specials and all. Heavy duty won't really aid the sports performance.
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anV6

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Also very nice, interesting bit of info from Zirk, didn't know that  :y

Indeed!  :y

Great forum and group of knowledgeable people!
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anV6

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Thanks for the input. And I guess the MV6 just doesn't go fast enough to have the same problem, so they deleted the self leveling function for the sports suspension for some reason?

Just to pick up on this, the Elite's self levelling system does have a vehicle speed input, so it's not impossible that it is adaptive to high speed driving but, of course, the MV6 doesn't have the self levelling at all and the Elite suspension is a bit wallowy, IMHO.
Slightly off topic, but just add the Self Levelling on the stronger Police Supension setup on the Estates works well, even at speed, and either loaded or unloaded in the back.  :y

What is the difference between the stronger Police Suspension and the stock and MV6 suspensions? Thanks.
Stronger Heavy Duty and stiffer over normal, you could through them around quiet happily, ride height about the same as stock, handling wise very similar drive to the Factory spec MV6.

Police Estate came with Self leveling Police Saloons didn't, most Police had LSD Diffs fitted, again the Police suspension was well suited to that, stopped the rear diff from potentially oscillating when the LSD kicked in, as can happen with softer suspension.

Which Omega trims had LSD Diffs fitted by the way?
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anV6

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The Steinmetz kit was available in the UK through Rossiters (a non-GM garage). This was the only thing you could get other than wheels.

The supercharger upgrade was only for Europe on left hand drive cars.

There were 2 Steinmetz versions of the Omega B. The 4 cylinder cars were turbocharged and the V6 cars were supercharged.  ;)

The ultimate Omega B. I also much prefer the look of the Steinmetz to the Irmscher.

I believe the reason for LHD only was the steering/ power steering pump would be in the way in the UK cars.
« Last Edit: 25 October 2016, 16:29:42 by anV6 »
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zirk

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Also, that Cesattoo edition thing, well, those are just standard photos of the 'Irmscher' bodykit on the Omega. I've got several brochures similar with those exact same shots, just without any of this Jonny bloke. I'm assuming what's happened is he's done rather well that year in the DTM, so they named a special edition after him. I could list various times Vauxhall have done something similar. So don't worry too much about finding this specific 'edition', just find a bodykit, in whatever condition, either attached to a car or not.  :)


Oh, and as said elsewhere, what was badged as 'MV6' in Europe was what we call the 'Elite' in the UK. I think the 'MV6' as we call; it was badged 'Sport' by Opel. Not helped by the fact that on the FL, Vauxhall also introduced the trim level 'Sport' - no idea if Opel had their own version of this model or not.  :y

Oh, I don't fancy an Irmscher body kit. Without the performance improvements to back them up, body kits are a no go for me. ;)

So I'm not looking for a Johnny version at all. I just did research on it to find out if there were any engine improvements. Since there wasn't, I don't want one really.

So the European MV6 doesn't have the sports suspension? This is so confusing. I'm starting to think I should just get the best car I can find with the best condition and lowest mileage and the features I want ( I really want full leather for example) and not worry what it is called. :-\
Since it's an older car and I will probably replace bushings and dampers when I buy it, I might as well replace the springs with MV6-like ones such as the Eibach. So I don't have to worry about what trim the car is. This is the only performance difference right? The suspension?
By the way I just found out that the MV6 in Europe was only B1. B2 the MV6 trim was dropped and it became the Executive.
They probably dld, on some models at least but whether they were badged MV6 or something else, Sport maybe, no idea about Euroland, as said the VX range didn't necessary follow the Opel range.

A clue might be in the Seats, the Factory Spec MV6 and Sports models in the UK had Recaro Style Sports seats in the front, Clothe or Leather, the type with the bigger bolsters and adjustable Leg supports. Would kind of make sense as to what Opel models came with these, could follow a pattern?  :-\
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zirk

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Thanks for the input. And I guess the MV6 just doesn't go fast enough to have the same problem, so they deleted the self leveling function for the sports suspension for some reason?

Just to pick up on this, the Elite's self levelling system does have a vehicle speed input, so it's not impossible that it is adaptive to high speed driving but, of course, the MV6 doesn't have the self levelling at all and the Elite suspension is a bit wallowy, IMHO.
Slightly off topic, but just add the Self Levelling on the stronger Police Supension setup on the Estates works well, even at speed, and either loaded or unloaded in the back.  :y

What is the difference between the stronger Police Suspension and the stock and MV6 suspensions? Thanks.
Stronger Heavy Duty and stiffer over normal, you could through them around quiet happily, ride height about the same as stock, handling wise very similar drive to the Factory spec MV6.

Police Estate came with Self leveling Police Saloons didn't, most Police had LSD Diffs fitted, again the Police suspension was well suited to that, stopped the rear diff from potentially oscillating when the LSD kicked in, as can happen with softer suspension.

Which Omega trims had LSD Diffs fitted by the way?
None, in the UK, Police only, dont believe its was an optional extra on stock.
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The was a 'Johnny Cecotto' Edition Omega in Europe that had all of the Irmscher stuff on it that I think had something to do with the V8 Star touring car series.

I found some info on the Johnny Cecotto' Edition. Unfortunately it seems it was a body kit only. No engine upgrades. I'm disappointed in Irmscher. The house that put out the EVO500 suddenly is happy with selling body kits only.  :-[ I guess this leaves the Steinmetz Omega as the ultimate Omega B.

The Johnny Cecotto' Edition styling package was available for any Omega of the range. It looks like it was a list option. I knew already that Irmscher wheels were a list option. But a whole styling package definitely puts Irmscher as a list option. Still not a list model per say. But being able to order it directly from Opel puts it a notch above of being only an aftermarket mod.

You could also choose a suspension package with the Johnny Cecotto' Edition. Although I couldn't find any information of how it would be different from the stock suspensions.

Here are some shots of the Johnny Cecotto' Edition Omega brochure I found online:










Looking at the spring options, that special edition is only a four cylinder, which suggests the 2.2...
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Kevin Wood

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...This is so confusing. I'm starting to think I should just get the best car I can find with the best condition and lowest mileage...

This is your best bet IMHO. Get the best condition body you can find with the engine that you want as a secondary consideration. Anything else can be changed reasonably easily, and the suspension components it left the factory with will be well worn now, so likely will have been replaced (in which case, it's anyone's guess) or will need replacement to bring the handling up to scratch, in which case you can fit whatever suits.

Mileage isn't really even an issue as the V6 cars will all do 200K effortlessly and be still working well beyond that.
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anV6

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The was a 'Johnny Cecotto' Edition Omega in Europe that had all of the Irmscher stuff on it that I think had something to do with the V8 Star touring car series.

I found some info on the Johnny Cecotto' Edition. Unfortunately it seems it was a body kit only. No engine upgrades. I'm disappointed in Irmscher. The house that put out the EVO500 suddenly is happy with selling body kits only.  :-[ I guess this leaves the Steinmetz Omega as the ultimate Omega B.

The Johnny Cecotto' Edition styling package was available for any Omega of the range. It looks like it was a list option. I knew already that Irmscher wheels were a list option. But a whole styling package definitely puts Irmscher as a list option. Still not a list model per say. But being able to order it directly from Opel puts it a notch above of being only an aftermarket mod.

You could also choose a suspension package with the Johnny Cecotto' Edition. Although I couldn't find any information of how it would be different from the stock suspensions.

Here are some shots of the Johnny Cecotto' Edition Omega brochure I found online:










Looking at the spring options, that special edition is only a four cylinder, which suggests the 2.2...

Where do you see that? It says on the suspension page that there were complete suspension kits for 4 cylinder cars and for 6 cylinder cars. Check the last picture.  ;)

 The Johnny Cecotto Edition was available for all 2001 Omegas, Saloon or Estate, regardless of engine choice or trim.  :y
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anV6

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...This is so confusing. I'm starting to think I should just get the best car I can find with the best condition and lowest mileage...

This is your best bet IMHO. Get the best condition body you can find with the engine that you want as a secondary consideration. Anything else can be changed reasonably easily, and the suspension components it left the factory with will be well worn now, so likely will have been replaced (in which case, it's anyone's guess) or will need replacement to bring the handling up to scratch, in which case you can fit whatever suits.

Mileage isn't really even an issue as the V6 cars will all do 200K effortlessly and be still working well beyond that.

Yes, this is what I'm going to do.  :y
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anV6

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Also, that Cesattoo edition thing, well, those are just standard photos of the 'Irmscher' bodykit on the Omega. I've got several brochures similar with those exact same shots, just without any of this Jonny bloke. I'm assuming what's happened is he's done rather well that year in the DTM, so they named a special edition after him. I could list various times Vauxhall have done something similar. So don't worry too much about finding this specific 'edition', just find a bodykit, in whatever condition, either attached to a car or not.  :)


Oh, and as said elsewhere, what was badged as 'MV6' in Europe was what we call the 'Elite' in the UK. I think the 'MV6' as we call; it was badged 'Sport' by Opel. Not helped by the fact that on the FL, Vauxhall also introduced the trim level 'Sport' - no idea if Opel had their own version of this model or not.  :y

Oh, I don't fancy an Irmscher body kit. Without the performance improvements to back them up, body kits are a no go for me. ;)

So I'm not looking for a Johnny version at all. I just did research on it to find out if there were any engine improvements. Since there wasn't, I don't want one really.

So the European MV6 doesn't have the sports suspension? This is so confusing. I'm starting to think I should just get the best car I can find with the best condition and lowest mileage and the features I want ( I really want full leather for example) and not worry what it is called. :-\
Since it's an older car and I will probably replace bushings and dampers when I buy it, I might as well replace the springs with MV6-like ones such as the Eibach. So I don't have to worry about what trim the car is. This is the only performance difference right? The suspension?
By the way I just found out that the MV6 in Europe was only B1. B2 the MV6 trim was dropped and it became the Executive.

They probably dld, on some models at least but whether they were badged MV6 or something else, Sport maybe, no idea about Euroland, as said the VX range didn't necessary follow the Opel range.

A clue might be in the Seats, the Factory Spec MV6 and Sports models in the UK had Recaro Style Sports seats in the front, Clothe or Leather, the type with the bigger bolsters and adjustable Leg supports. Would kind of make sense as to what Opel models came with these, could follow a pattern?  :-\

Yes, paying attention to the seats sounds like a great tip.  :)

So the Recaros came out in leather as well? In the Omega Sport it seems they were only cloth.

By the way, it is just the name plates that were mixed up, right? Opel didn't actually make different cars for both markets. They were just called different names. (?)

But Kevin makes a very good point. Even if I find a MV6 or whichever Opel trim is supposed to have the sports suspension, unless I find something with like 50K miles on the clock, the factory suspension components would have been long replaced. Who knows if the owner replaced them with proper sports suspension components or just the cheapest components he could find.

If the difference was also in the suspension arms and suspension design, it would make sense in chasing the "real" sports suspension. But if it's only springs and dumpers then not so much. The only reason left to chase a higher trim is resale value and image. You know, just so one can say he has a MV6 or whatever. But I have the impression this doesn't really matter much. Besides since I want the V6, I think that engine only came with the premium trims anyway, correct?
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anV6

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Thanks for the input. And I guess the MV6 just doesn't go fast enough to have the same problem, so they deleted the self leveling function for the sports suspension for some reason?

Just to pick up on this, the Elite's self levelling system does have a vehicle speed input, so it's not impossible that it is adaptive to high speed driving but, of course, the MV6 doesn't have the self levelling at all and the Elite suspension is a bit wallowy, IMHO.
Slightly off topic, but just add the Self Levelling on the stronger Police Supension setup on the Estates works well, even at speed, and either loaded or unloaded in the back.  :y

What is the difference between the stronger Police Suspension and the stock and MV6 suspensions? Thanks.
Stronger Heavy Duty and stiffer over normal, you could through them around quiet happily, ride height about the same as stock, handling wise very similar drive to the Factory spec MV6.

Police Estate came with Self leveling Police Saloons didn't, most Police had LSD Diffs fitted, again the Police suspension was well suited to that, stopped the rear diff from potentially oscillating when the LSD kicked in, as can happen with softer suspension.

Which Omega trims had LSD Diffs fitted by the way?
None, in the UK, Police only, dont believe its was an optional extra on stock.

So the Omega never had a LSD? Pity. But I seem to have read Omegas with them. Probably aftermarket? Is it a difficult or expensive DIY job?
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Diamond Black Geezer

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Again, I think almost none of us can speak with certainty for Euro-spec cars. There may well have been, but in the UK there wasn't, unless there were some special order - perhaps government or Royal cars had 'special' underneath parts. (yes, the British Government and Royal Family's official cars were Omegas for a while, plus unmarked / CID Police used them too of course  :y)

As has been advised, get yourself a good shell, then engine, the rest is changeable. Ok, now there will be 'Opel Omegas' with LSDs - what we call Carltons (GSi 3000) as well as Senators. You're probably aware that they were named differently in the UK to Europe, but just wanted to clarify.

It is possibly to install the LSD internals into an Omega diff, though the other thing to remember is that much of the 'limited slip' of the diff has worn out on higher mileage. I posted a link some time ago (get searching on here! :)) which a very well known engineering firm tested one after about 80k miles, and found a large proportion of the 'limited slip' had worn out. Its just the design of it, it's like a clutch, they wear / wear out eventually. I wonder if fitting another LSD from another car would be doable, rather than a lot of time and expense in refurbishing an old Omega diff. But that's something for you to think about when you#ve got the thing up your drive! No point getting bogged down in all that yet  :y
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anV6

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Yep, I know the Omega A is called the Carlton back in the UK. I just moved here for work.  ;)

So this is what people have been doing. Fitting old Carlton LSDs in Omega Bs. Interesting. But you have a point about they probably being old and worn by now. And I gather you can't get them new anymore?

By the way I found some information about differentials on a German website which mentions locking differentials available for the Omega B? I'm not sure if I'm misreading it. My German is not really that great. But Google also translates it as locking differential.

Here is the Google translation:

"From the 1997 model year onwards, the "Traction Control Plus" was available for all six-cylinder units, which had an effect like a locking differential when a drive wheel was turned through by means of an intervention in the engine control and brake engagement.
From the use of the "TC Plus" no separate locking differential was available for the Omega with six-cylinder engine.
For the four-cylinder engines, however, only the blocking differential, but not the TC Plus, was available."
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It was at the time where TC systems were looking like they may replace LSDs, I suppose. The earlier TC literally cuts power to both rear wheels, the later does a little more, splitting the power between both rear wheels (if one wheel's on ice, the other on dry, warm tarmac etc) very late top spec Omegas got EBD, too, I believe.


I was going to comment how good your English was actually!  :D
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