Topic: towing problem with omega 2.2cdxdti,2003 model (Read 3926 times)

davfromwigan · « **on:** 29 August 2006, 21:02:06 »

just got back from holiday towing caravan with2.2 cdxdti saloon. the car towed great until i started to overtake HGV. I changed down to fourth and to my alarm the engine died and the emmisions light came on.I managed to pull over and turned off the ignition. the car restarted again, no problem, and off we went again.Again, every thing was fine until the next incline when the engine died again when i changed down.It seemed, when under pressure, the emissions light would come on and engine went off! This happened five times on our journey (wigan to taunton). the car drove fine without the caravan.the caravan is roughly 85% of the kerbweight of car so that should not be a problem. has anyone any ideas before i cough up at garage?

TheBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 August 2006, 21:04:54 »

Welcome to the site

If the EML came on, a fault code will be stored in ECU for a while. I don't think you can do paperclip test on that car, so take it to a local garage with diangostic equip, and ask them to read the fault codes.

TheBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 August 2006, 21:05:59 »

Sorry, I don't know anything about the 2.2 dti engine....

tunnie · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 August 2006, 21:38:10 »

as suggested take the car to a local garge to get the 'Fault Codes' - Once you have the fault codes post them up here and we can advise [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 August 2006, 12:46:47 »

I know something about a 2.2 diesel estate.

One managed to out accelerate me from traffic lights on a dual carriageway

My only consolation is my emmsions are 'green' not the black stuff coming from his exhaust 8-)

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 August 2006, 12:48:26 »

By the way, was it the emissions (piccy of engine) or the EML (piccy of car with spanner sticking thro its roof) ?

davfromwigan · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 August 2006, 20:03:57 »

it was the emmisions light.

Del Boy · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 August 2006, 20:39:14 »

as tunnie said take it 2 a garage and get the fault codes m8

davfromwigan · « **Reply #8 on:** 01 September 2006, 16:26:15 »

2 errors. P0105 boost pressure sensor signal too high and P1125,boost pressure control deviation. What does this mean?

TheBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** 01 September 2006, 16:29:00 »

Hopefully one of the diesel experts will be along shortly, but I suspect these 2 codes are related...

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #10 on:** 01 September 2006, 17:36:09 »

Had a little dig for you....

It points towards an air leak.....so check for this.

Reason being apparantly the calculated value for the air mass from the boost pressure is totally different to the value from the AMF sensor

Spose it could be duff AMF sensor

But anyway it will have these effects

Maximum performance will be reduced.
Exhaust gas recirculation valve is switched off
Boost pressure control is not longer possible

HTH

Cheers

davfromwigan · « **Reply #11 on:** 02 September 2006, 14:43:07 »

not mechanically minded.Whats an AMF sensor?Is it expensive?The guy from garage said try it, after renewing software on engine management.Been out today with caravan on back, still the same problem,cutting out when under pressure towing.The car doesn,t feel as powerful as it should be.What i cant understand is: if the 2 faults are showing when tested why can nobody just mend the 2 faults?Or is it not as simple as that?

TheBoy · « **Reply #12 on:** 02 September 2006, 15:47:24 »

The 2 codes stored only give clues to what is wrong (after all, its unlikely that you would have 2 simultaneous problems suddenly appear)

Air leak on intake does sound feasible (check air intake hoses for splits, and that jubilee clips are all tight, esp around the turbocharger).

AMF = Air Mass Flow sensor - it measures the mass of the air passing into engine so it can decide how much fuel to put in for correct mixture (hence if you have air leak after AMF, engine management puts in less fuel thank required, which means it runs poorly, which is picked up by engine management and flags up there must be something wrong with AMF)

Paul M · « **Reply #13 on:** 02 September 2006, 16:06:23 »

Quote

2 errors. P0105 boost pressure sensor signal too high and P1125,boost pressure control deviation. What does this mean?

These are just educated guesses, but sounds like it's overboosting which would make sense as you were giving it full pelt with a substantial load on the engine. I've never owned a TD but had a Subaru Impreza which had an overboost detect function in the ECU to protect the engine - if the wastegate failed for any reason and the boost raised too high it would cut fuel. When tuning for higher boost levels you had to raise the overboost threshold too.

I believe the DTI engine has variable vane geometry turbo (my dad had one in a Vectra some years back) so it may not have a wastegate. However I really don't know anything about this engine so can't help further. It's probably a sensor or connection somewhere though giving a bad reading. That's the usual for these cars.

TheBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** 02 September 2006, 16:53:11 »

OK, I don't know much about these, but lets go through it bit by bit.

Firstly, the codes that were obtained, did they include the descriptions, or were the descriptions looked up in a table somewhere?

TheBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** 02 September 2006, 16:55:02 »

I suspect the later, as both these codes according to TIS if they have the text 'critical system failure' are all pointing towards same problem:

"Check intake system/charge air hoses for leaks (secondary air, porosity and blockages)"

davfromwigan · « **Reply #16 on:** 02 September 2006, 17:15:32 »

The print out from garage reads:Control module diagnosis VAUXHALL Engine control Error memory Diesel EDC 15M............P0105 Boost pressure sensor signal too high.........P1125 Boost pressure control deviation.......No. of errors 2

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #17 on:** 02 September 2006, 18:12:37 »

Quote

I suspect the later, as both these codes according to TIS if they have the text 'critical system failure' are all pointing towards same problem:

"Check intake system/charge air hoses for leaks (secondary air, porosity and blockages)"

Funny that Jaime....thats what i would have found if of course i had TIS which i dont

TheBoy · « **Reply #18 on:** 02 September 2006, 18:25:10 »

davfromwigan, do you know if they used a 'Tech2' tester (only likely if a dealer) or a more generic tester (more likely if an independent).

If it was a more generic reader, I'd still say an air leak. This would explain the symptoms, and the lack of power would be due to the 'guess' values that the ECU puts in for sensors it no longer trusts...

davfromwigan · « **Reply #19 on:** 02 September 2006, 18:49:43 »

the garage said they used same test as vauxhall.they seemed genuine enough.So i would guess at Tech2.

TheBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** 02 September 2006, 18:55:23 »

Quote

the garage said they used same test as vauxhall.they seemed genuine enough.So i would guess at Tech2.

Thats odd, as those text quotes do not match what a Tech2 would give. Trouble is, there are around 5 different fault codes for P0105 (all related to same sensor, but for different reasons), and more than 1 for P1125. The common cause for both is leaky air intake.

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #21 on:** 02 September 2006, 19:02:09 »

Quote

the garage said they used same test as vauxhall.they seemed genuine enough.So i would guess at Tech2.

I doubt a tech2....too expensive for independants....just to check vx's....more like a generic code reader.....ive seen them where you select the make model etc.....and not only tell you the codes but what the codes mean....so i'll guess they have one of those types

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #22 on:** 02 September 2006, 19:14:53 »

Quote

Quote
2 errors. P0105 boost pressure sensor signal too high and P1125,boost pressure control deviation. What does this mean?

These are just educated guesses, but sounds like it's overboosting which would make sense as you were giving it full pelt with a substantial load on the engine. I've never owned a TD but had a Subaru Impreza which had an overboost detect function in the ECU to protect the engine - if the wastegate failed for any reason and the boost raised too high it would cut fuel. When tuning for higher boost levels you had to raise the overboost threshold too.

I believe the DTI engine has variable vane geometry turbo (my dad had one in a Vectra some years back) so it may not have a wastegate. However I really don't know anything about this engine so can't help further. It's probably a sensor or connection somewhere though giving a bad reading. That's the usual for these cars.

Jaime.....what you reckon?? I know your copy of TIS is pointing to an air leak....just thinking about it...if air leak, i would have thought that the fault would be possible to replicate without caravan attached....ie possible when engine/turbo is not straining its hardest...

Tho i guess slight air leak around the turbo could produce this under max load...be worth checking.

Also iirc correctly isnt there some voltage checks you can do on the various sensors....to test them if davfromwigan is handy with a multimeter.

TheBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** 02 September 2006, 19:29:46 »

Shame davfromwigan is (presumably) from Wigan, and not closer to me. We could Tech2 this and work out whats wrong.

I still think there is an air leak somewhere.

davfromwigan, does it happen when you're giving it a damn good thrashing without the caravan - both slightly labouring (ie flooring it at 40mph in top) and way up the rev range?

davfromwigan · « **Reply #24 on:** 03 September 2006, 10:04:40 »

i tried it on friday without the caravan, i.e. flooring it but only in low gears.I,ll try again today,labouring it in fourth.

davfromwigan · « **Reply #25 on:** 03 September 2006, 16:39:57 »

just tried it without caravan,i.e. high revs in fourth etc. but nothing happens. Must just happen under extreme pressure. If there were no hills in England it would be fine.

stevief · « **Reply #26 on:** 04 September 2006, 13:32:52 »

I've only had one instance of power loss and that was towing the caravan up a long hill as well. The car had been serviced a few weeks before the trip and I had had no problems until we got 3/4 of the way up the hill in question when it suddenly sounded like the heater fan was in overdrive, very little power and no sign of the caravan in the black smoke beltching out the rear. Managed to get over the top of the hill and down into a layby. Looking under the bonnet nothing was too visible until the car was started and revved up, the hose had disconnected from the turbo outlet and was sitting just at the end of the connection.

The hose clip was slack but not so much that it was easy to get it back on so I put it down to the fact that the fuel filter (just next to the hose) was changed and the hose had been removed to give clearance and was not tightened up correctly when re-fitted.

I can only guess that due to the increased heat of the engine working under load added to a bit of extra boost(?) that the hose had finally let go.

Strangely enough though none of the warning lights lit up that I can remember but in saying that I was trying to see if the van was still there through the cloud of smoke. I cannot think of there being any sensors between the turbo and the inlet so I would check the system before the turbo first.

Steve

Paul M · « **Reply #27 on:** 04 September 2006, 13:46:40 »

Black smoke is caused by being way too rich, hose coming off the turbo = no boost = not enough air for the fuel going in = no power and loads of smoke.

stevief · « **Reply #28 on:** 04 September 2006, 16:47:30 »

Quote

Black smoke is caused by being way too rich, hose coming off the turbo = no boost = not enough air for the fuel going in = no power and loads of smoke.

One thing you forgot is the large brown stains on four seats because of the noise from the open turbo.

The point I was trying to get across is that the chances of getting the same conditions in just the car may be difficult due to the extra loading and heat caused by towing the caravan. In my case the car had been driven enthusiatically on a number off occasions and we were 150 miles plus into the trip when it blew off.

One thing that has come to mind reading this, we owned a MK1 Astra GTE and it developed the same symtoms as the ones here and I couldn't find anything wrong and either could a mechanic friend. We were looking around the engine bay with the enginine running when he put a hand on the top of the convoluted inlet hose between the air box and the inlet to lean over for a look down the back and this initiated the misfire and splutering. It turned out to be the convoluted hose had split in the bottom of one of the Vs and was only opening up and allowing more air in when the engine was getting enough stick to tilt it on the mountings so to speak like when pulling away at junctions etc.

Moral of the story is don't just look at the hoses get them off and give them a twist to make sure there are no splits.

Steve

davfromwigan · « **Reply #29 on:** 04 September 2006, 19:49:23 »

guy from garage let me try car with new air flow meter.just tried towing caravan with it.gave it a good thrashing and all was well.Unfortunately have to pay for AFM tomorrow,over hundred quid , i think.I would like to thank everyone who replied to my posting, especially The Boy and Taxidriver.Hope thats problem solved.

TheBoy · « **Reply #30 on:** 04 September 2006, 21:37:32 »

Glad you've (hopefully) found the solution

- sorry it's expensive

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #31 on:** 05 September 2006, 07:05:00 »

Glad its fixed [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Probably £300+ tho if you'd taken it to vx dealer

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Author Topic: towing problem with omega 2.2cdxdti,2003 model (Read 3926 times)

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