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Author Topic: Where is Rods 2?  (Read 6154 times)

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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #30 on: 24 March 2019, 12:09:42 »

How about Sir Keir Starmer?

I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".

How about the 'coloured girl'.......Diane?.... ::)
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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #31 on: 24 March 2019, 12:10:25 »

Well whoever is the next incumbent of Number 10 needs to be someone who actually believes in this country and is prepared to kick the butts of those in Westminster and Whitehall who have been trying to rob the 17.4 million of their vote for independence.  :y
Remember the majority was slim, so repeatedly spouting 17.x million isn't that significant from the 16.x million who voted the other way. It frustrates me, as its one of many ways that the vitriolic segments of the leavers try to make out that leaving was a whitewash, when it wasn't.

Not that that deters from the fact we voted to leave, and leave we should because of that (no matter how daft it is in the present climate). That was the (admittedly slim) majority.  Trouble is, just about every respectable economist knows that a hard exit is severely detrimental to the UK. So a deal of some description is needed.  And as most people who weren't taken in with the Brexit Bus 'dangle berries' realised at the time, UK has no bargaining power, so will never get the EU to roll over, give us a free trade deal, waive any outstanding financial commitments, and generally meet all our demands.

But even worse, and equally predictably, is our elected MPs clearly don't want to leave, and keep voting out every other option.  Which is wrong, as its against the will of the those that voted in the referendum.  However, despite the vocal few of the Brexiteer supporters, come the next local elections, their actions on this subject will make little difference to how the majority will think/vote.
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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #32 on: 24 March 2019, 12:11:24 »

How about Sir Keir Starmer?

I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".

How about the 'coloured girl'.......Diane?.... ::)
Corbyn knows he will win the next election if he can stay in long enough. So the silly mare wont get a chance, fortunately.
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Varche

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #33 on: 24 March 2019, 12:14:00 »

What will probably happen is the new leader will agree a temporary stay in Europe of ten years on the understanding that the EU reforms including not becoming more federal plus a legally binding referendum to be held in ten years time to take in those reforms. Bar will be set at 51%. Everyone must vote after a campaign setting out both sides lasting just two weeks.

Ballot paper would read:

You have seen what did or didnt happen since 2019 , ten years ago.

Do you wish to lose your identity and control and pay more but not have to think about it?

Do you wish to get out of the EU using the Plan detailed in the campaign and control your own destiny but still remain friends?
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #34 on: 24 March 2019, 12:20:56 »

If we have a long extension the chance of actually leaving the EU will become vanishingly small.
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Varche

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #35 on: 24 March 2019, 12:21:53 »

One thing that has struck me is the reasons why people voted leave have been analysed to death e.g. no more immigrants, took in by the bus, no control.

I do believe I have never once seen anyone examine the reasons why people voted remain. I would guess inertia ( lack of desire for change) would have been a big factor. As would I like going on holiday to Europe. They are our trading partners. My nephew voted remain as he didnt want me to be booted out of Spain. Forgot the big one- world would end if we leave.

On both sides there were millions of voters voting badly,
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #36 on: 24 March 2019, 12:30:39 »

Well whoever is the next incumbent of Number 10 needs to be someone who actually believes in this country and is prepared to kick the butts of those in Westminster and Whitehall who have been trying to rob the 17.4 million of their vote for independence.  :y
Remember the majority was slim, so repeatedly spouting 17.x million isn't that significant from the 16.x million who voted the other way. It frustrates me, as its one of many ways that the vitriolic segments of the leavers try to make out that leaving was a whitewash, when it wasn't.

Not that that deters from the fact we voted to leave, and leave we should because of that (no matter how daft it is in the present climate). That was the (admittedly slim) majority.  Trouble is, just about every respectable economist knows that a hard exit is severely detrimental to the UK. So a deal of some description is needed.  And as most people who weren't taken in with the Brexit Bus 'dangle berries' realised at the time, UK has no bargaining power, so will never get the EU to roll over, give us a free trade deal, waive any outstanding financial commitments, and generally meet all our demands.

But even worse, and equally predictably, is our elected MPs clearly don't want to leave, and keep voting out every other option.  Which is wrong, as its against the will of the those that voted in the referendum.  However, despite the vocal few of the Brexiteer supporters, come the next local elections, their actions on this subject will make little difference to how the majority will think/vote.

You are right the majority was slim, but had the result gone 52%/48% the other way would any consideration been given then to the 48%?   ::)  I don't think so...

The UK did have bargaining power, but it was just that our pathetic spineless politicians and officials declined to use it, somehow believing that if they were nice to the EU, they would be nice back.  I bet Barnier couldn't believe his luck!  ::) 

At the end of the day though, however bad Theresa May has been, it could have been worse had Corbyn and Mcdonnell been handling the negotiations as I'm sure that they would have readily agreed to hand over the £100 billion of taxpayers money that Barnier originally tried to scam us for!  >:(
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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #37 on: 24 March 2019, 15:48:16 »

How about Sir Keir Starmer?

I always said the labour party ought to have had the other Milliband. " More electable".

How about the 'coloured girl'.......Diane?.... ::)
Are you allowed to say that in these ultra PC days. ::)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #38 on: 24 March 2019, 15:59:47 »

One thing that has struck me is the reasons why people voted leave have been analysed to death e.g. no more immigrants, took in by the bus, no control.

I do believe I have never once seen anyone examine the reasons why people voted remain. I would guess inertia ( lack of desire for change) would have been a big factor. As would I like going on holiday to Europe. They are our trading partners. My nephew voted remain as he didnt want me to be booted out of Spain. Forgot the big one- world would end if we leave.

On both sides there were millions of voters voting badly,

For me it was for none of the reasons you state Varche, but I know if I explain what those justifiable reasons were, and are, I will be insulted on here.  That is a pointless exercise on a car forum that nowadays, after past experiences, I use to just keep my Omega running but contributing to discussions when I believe I can do so. ;)

Still, during the English Civil War, when the population was equally split supporting "their viewpoint", they killed each other, or died of disease caused by the conflict, to a greater percentage of loss of population than during both World Wars!  So things are better this time around!! :D :D ;)
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Varche

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #39 on: 24 March 2019, 16:19:55 »

No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.

Good point about the losses in the Civil War.  maybe that is the solution..... have a war.  :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #40 on: 24 March 2019, 17:10:36 »

Good for the economy too :D
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #41 on: 24 March 2019, 17:42:24 »

No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.

I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::)  I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU.  ::)  I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone?  There were 142 responses of which 73% said No. 

Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts.  The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany.  ;)

Good point about the losses in the Civil War.  maybe that is the solution..... have a war.  :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.

The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece!  ::)  Not to mention here!  ;D



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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #42 on: 24 March 2019, 17:46:17 »

No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.

Good point about the losses in the Civil War.  maybe that is the solution..... have a war.  :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.

I know you were not Varche. I just took the opportunity to voice how I feel without going too far :D ;)

My war comment was a deliberate link to how I feel.  Europe as one has escaped the awful wars of the past.  Split up, the risk of was as countries are picked off is high.  Russia is just waiting for the opportunity. :(
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #43 on: 24 March 2019, 17:47:37 »

No Lizzie, I wasn't asking anyone who voted a particular way to explain their voting. Just making an observation that the reasons why people voted remain were never analysed to death like the reasons leave was.

I think you are right Varche and neither have the consequences of voting remain (or if indeed we end up staying in after all this) been examined either. ::)  I follow a facebook group, Devon For Europe and there are many on there for whom the EU is like a religion and get quite shirty if you dare critisise the EU.  ::)  I started a poll and the question was: Looking to the future if we end up remaining in the EU, which I think we will. Should the UK show solidarity with our European friends by giving up the rebate, joining the Euro and the Schengen zone?  There were 142 responses of which 73% said No. 

Personally I think that's pretty naive and think had we voted to remain, we'd have come under pressure to give up the rebate and join the Euro etc, but I think that if we end up staying in losing the rebate and taking the Euro in the not too distant future is inevitable. Not only that, but I think that the only way that the Euro can survive long term, is if all members of the EU join up, there is a common fiscal policy and mutualisation of national debts.  The Germans won't like the last bit, but will go for it if everyone does as, the Euro has been good for Germany.  ;)

Good point about the losses in the Civil War.  maybe that is the solution..... have a war.  :-[ There hasn't been one for about a year. Minister for War Dept Michael Gove anyone.

The EU have already caused a war in Ukraine and probably came close to causing a civil war in Greece!  ::)  Not to mention here!  ;D

Pardon :o :o

Do you not think Russia caused the main reason for it? ??? ???
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TheBoy

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Re: Where is Rods 2?
« Reply #44 on: 24 March 2019, 18:03:17 »

I do believe I have never once seen anyone examine the reasons why people voted remain. I would guess inertia ( lack of desire for change) would have been a big factor. As would I like going on holiday to Europe.
Hmmm, not really heard those before. For me, and most people I know who voted to remain, it was for National economic reasons, which thus impacts personal economic reasons.

Due to referendum, and the seemingly likely no deal scenario, Mrs TB's job is severely in the firing line.  My pensions are decimated, so despite putting away an awful lot every month since I was kicked out of any final salary schemes, I will be reliant on the state...  ...a state that won't, IMHO, be able afford to keep its pensioners.  All of which was entirely predictable, as I pointed out nearly 3 years ago.

That's why I voted as I did.
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