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[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

From next year they will be allowed to go on motorways during lessons. A recipe for disaster imo.
I think we should have a system where you pass your test, then have to take a further specific test, say a year later, before you can drive on motorways.      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40905632

[frostbite]

Is that not the point of pass plus?

[tunnie]

Pass plus is optional, I did it. But not everyone does.

[Viral_Jim]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

Agreed! 

It has to be better for new drivers to be instructed properly in how to drive on a motorway.  We all think we can drive on motorways, but how many of us have had instruction?    

[Andy H]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

Agreed! 

It has to be better for new drivers to be instructed properly in how to drive on a motorway.  We all think we can drive on motorways, but how many of us have had instruction?    

Have you got many Motorways in Darzet?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

Agreed! 

It has to be better for new drivers to be instructed properly in how to drive on a motorway.  We all think we can drive on motorways, but how many of us have had instruction?    

Have you got many Motorways in Darzet?

 

Unlike you Cornish we do get out now and again! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

Agreed! 

It has to be better for new drivers to be instructed properly in how to drive on a motorway.  We all think we can drive on motorways, but how many of us have had instruction?    

Being able to read helps... It's covered in the Highway Code

As for first time on a motorway alone etc... Shame on those parents who allow this to happen without bothering to take the time to get them used to it.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

+1

[JamesV6CDX]

As for first time on a motorway alone etc... Shame on those parents who allow this to happen without bothering to take the time to get them used to it.

I guess this can't apply to everyone though. Many of my mates at the time of learning to drive were from single parent families whose mums didn't drive themselves. Although I agree they should in those circs maybe arrange alternative instruction.

Although I also guess some people don't learn to drive until their 30s and beyond. Can't really hold their parents accountable 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Given the criteria of being with an instructor and in a dual control vehicle, I'm in favour of this.

 The current situation where the first time a young driver (legally) goes on the motorway is alone and having had no structured experience or tuition of the situation cannot be sensible.

As I said in my original post - I believe its a disaster waiting to happen. New drivers should pass their test, spend a year driving on non motorway roads to gain experience & confidence. Then take a further test before being allowed on motorways.
This stops the current stupid situation, without the lunacy of learner drivers being let loose on motorways.
Or to put it another way. If you choose not to take Pass plus, your not allowed to drive on motorways.
I would also include major trunk roads in this. I was on the A12 near Witham last night in the outside lane. In front of me was a Nissan Micra, driving along at 50mph. It was displaying P plates, driven by a young women who was busy chatting to her three mates.
A long queue built up on both lanes behind her, but she was either completely oblivious, or didn't give a toss.
In the end, dozens of people broke the law by undertaking her, as she was causing a huge tailback.
It had to be seen to be believed.

[Bigron]

I'm with you on all that, Albs. However, it the circumstances that you described, I don't think it's illegal to "undertake"; the Highway Code states (from memory, not verbatim) that such an action is permissible if your lane is blocked by traffic moving more slowly - and she was! 

Ron.

[aaronjb]

In my travels yesterday the number of young people I found driving like idiots on the motorway was zero.

Number of middle aged idiots sitting in the middle lane on a quiet motorway, two.

Number of lorries taking up all three lanes (yes, on a three lane motorway.. is that legal now?) doing their four mile drag race.. eight. All on UK plates.

I don't think 18 year olds are the problem...

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Is it compulsory to pass a driving test these days?. Before 1935 there was no need.

If so I must look into this.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

In my travels yesterday the number of young people I found driving like idiots on the motorway was zero.

Number of middle aged idiots sitting in the middle lane on a quiet motorway, two.

Number of lorries taking up all three lanes (yes, on a three lane motorway.. is that legal now?) doing their four mile drag race.. eight. All on UK plates.

I don't think 18 year olds are the problem...

Women sexting/texting can be a problem for the 18 year old who reads it while driving on a motorway.

[Bigron]

Dr. Opti, I rather think it would help if a new driving test every 5 years, to account for changing conditions - both road and driver - were compulsory. I would be happy to be re-tested and have it confirmed that I was safe on the roads.
In my job at college, I often took students on trips (silly me, a glutton for punishment!) and therefore had to pass a stringent test to drive the college mini-bus: rightly so, considering the responsibility I had for the safety of 17 young people.

Ron.

[2boxerdogs]

Just seen this on the news, for once it seems someone has had a sensible idea .

[Sir Tigger KC]

Are motorway lessons to be compulsory then? 

What happens if you live in the arse end of Cornwall or Narfick where the nearest motorway is miles away? 

[Nick W]

In my travels yesterday the number of young people I found driving like idiots on the motorway was zero.

Number of middle aged idiots sitting in the middle lane on a quiet motorway, two.

Number of lorries taking up all three lanes (yes, on a three lane motorway.. is that legal now?) doing their four mile drag race.. eight. All on UK plates.

I don't think 18 year olds are the problem...

They're certainly not the only problem.


And what's all the fuss about new drivers on motorways where all there is no oncoming traffic, few junctions(that's what defines them as motorways, and not dual carriageways), clear signposting etc, etc. Those are all things that make motorways the easiest and safest roads to drive on. The biggest problem is a potentially large speed differential than they're used to, which will affect nervous and indecisive drivers worse the most. And they're the ones that are dangerous whenever they drive a car.

[Rods2]

Is it compulsory to pass a driving test these days?. Before 1935 there was no need.

If so I must look into this.

It is still optional in some Eastern European countries. The cheaper and quicker route there is to slip the full license issuing officer a suitably filled brown envelope. They can then migrate to the UK never having had a driving lesson in their life.

[Doctor Gollum]

As for first time on a motorway alone etc... Shame on those parents who allow this to happen without bothering to take the time to get them used to it.

I guess this can't apply to everyone though. Many of my mates at the time of learning to drive were from single parent families whose mums didn't drive themselves. Although I agree they should in those circs maybe arrange alternative instruction.

Although I also guess some people don't learn to drive until their 30s and beyond. Can't really hold their parents accountable 

Being from a single parent family is not an excuse. The number of people raised in broken homes outweighs those from stable homes something like four or five to one... Maybe I was lucky* growing up, but three of my four uncles went out of their way to make up for my Dads failings. Any one of them would have taken me on a motorway lesson, but that onerous task fell to the uncle who happened to be a Traffic Inspector at the local RPU

I understand how lifestyle can prevent people from learning to drive. If you haven't learnt before university you might never learn as you'll most likely end up living in a city. But if and when the need/desire arises, you'll obviously take every step to learn properly. At that stage in life you don't waste time with half arsed attempts... either do it or don't bother. Aunt, wife of said uncle, has never driven. Ever. But she was adamant that both their daughters took their tests. Not sure what they will do when he has to give up driving though

I only know one of my school mates who doesn't drive. Yes he comes from a broken home, but that has absolutely nothing to do with not learning. He basically didn't see the point or have the need. His previous girlfriends all drove, as does his wife... ergo, he still doesn't need to

* I know I was lucky, so no need to answer that point

[Kevin Wood]

The way I see it, they won't make motorway driving part of the test and driving instructors are there to get people through the test, at the end of the day. Will they insist on wasting a (not cheap) pre-test lesson or two practising on the motorway? I doubt it very much, unless the punter particularly wants to.

I suspect instructors will concentrate on covering the requirements of the driving test until that is behind the student, and then offer them a motorway lesson* to introduce them to the additional requirements of motorways, which is exactly the same scenario as when I did it 30 years ago.

* - not in East Anglia or Cornwall, of course.

[aaronjb]

I suspect instructors will concentrate on covering the requirements of the driving test until that is behind the student, and then offer them a motorway lesson* to introduce them to the additional requirements of motorways, which is exactly the same scenario as when I did it 30 years ago.

I was never offered any motorway lessons by my instructor (then again, the nearest motorway was some distance away from the arse end of nowhere, North Yorkshire.. I mean, Linton-on-Ouse, North Yorkshire ) but every lesson did involve heading up the dual-carriageway section of the A19 to Northallerton (where I eventually did my test) and woe betide me if I did not merge from the slip-road doing the same speed as the surrounding traffic..

..in fact, woe betide me if I didn't keep up with the flow of traffic wherever I was going. Which, if any of you have driven around North Yorkshire, tends to be one of two things: "We're stuck behind a bloody tractor" or "The man in front thinks he's Colin McRae"

[VXL V6]

I remember when I passed my test (27 years ago  ) taking the old mans spare car out and thraping the nads off it up the motorway within an hour of leaving the test centre.   

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Motorways were different / better roads to drive on 27 years ago though. 
They are crammed beyond capacity with vehicles driven by the brain dead now, and adding learners, with the possibility of their fear and panic into that mix is just stupid imo.
I would like to add something which my driving instructor told me 40 years ago, but I never had an instructor. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I doubt that any learner driver will be taken onto a motorway until their instructor feels they are competent enough. 

There are plenty of drivers who have had their licences for years who go into a state of fear and panic at the thought of going on a motorway and we've all seen people gripping the wheel so hard that their knuckles are white, staring straight ahead going along at 40mph in the middle lane!     

[Kevin Wood]

Motorways were different / better roads to drive on 27 years ago though. 
They are crammed beyond capacity with vehicles driven by the brain dead now, and adding learners, with the possibility of their fear and panic into that mix is just stupid imo.
I would like to add something which my driving instructor told me 40 years ago, but I never had an instructor. 

Yep, lunch time from 6th form was down the M3 to Mc'Ds in Fleet services at 125 MPH in my mate's MG Montego then back home via the service road.

You'd struggle to achieve half that progress now.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Ah, the days before speed cameras, and half empty roads. I'm welling up with tears of nostalgia here Kevin.   

[Andy B]

it was in those halcyon days before speed cameras that I managed 6 & a half hours from Pompey Hard to Rosyth  ...... 

it was in one of the fastest cars on the road though .... a hired Sierra 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I managed Liverpool docks to Halstead, north Essex in 3 hours 20 minutes in 1980. The route left the M1 at junction 12 (iirc) and it was all single carriageway roads for (almost) the last 100 miles. I got chased by a panda car somewhere in Bedfordshire but I lost him.
Those were the days my friend, we thought they,d never end. 

[STEMO]

I managed Liverpool docks to Halstead, north Essex in 3 hours 20 minutes in 1980. The route left the M1 at junction 12 (iirc) and it was all single carriageway roads for (almost) the last 100 miles. I got chased by a panda car somewhere in Bedfordshire but I lost him.
Those were the days my friend, we thought they,d never end. 

Was this the time you stowed away on the ferry and illegally entered the country? 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I got chased by a panda car somewhere in Bedfordshire but I lost him.

That was lucky, in those days and with your accent they'd have had you straight down to Paddington Green! 

[STEMO]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

Getting so drunk that you were barely conscious seemed to work for me. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

Getting so drunk that you were barely conscious seemed to work for me. 

Mice. The pair of you

There are officially only two places you are allowed to be sea sick... The Pentland Firth and going round Cape Horn

[TheBoy]

From next year they will be allowed to go on motorways during lessons. A recipe for disaster imo.
I think we should have a system where you pass your test, then have to take a further specific test, say a year later, before you can drive on motorways.      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40905632

Will probably improve the standard of motorway driving, as I think learners are more likely to pay some attention as to what is going on around them.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

Getting so drunk that you were barely conscious seemed to work for me. 

Mice. The pair of you

There are officially only two places you are allowed to be sea sick... The Pentland Firth and going round Cape Horn

You have obviously never done the Belfast / Liverpool crossing, in winter, aboard the old cattle boat. It was horrific. 

[Andy B]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

Getting so drunk that you were barely conscious seemed to work for me. 

Mice. The pair of you

There are officially only two places you are allowed to be sea sick... The Pentland Firth and going round Cape Horn

It wasn't pleasant leaving Savannah into a force 12 after a skin full the day/night before ...... (30 some yrs ago)   

[STEMO]

If the weather was bad enough (not bad enough to stop the sailings) the Birkenhead ferry used to end up like a bucket of sick some mornings, and that was a only ten minute commuter journey.
A lot of people must have a heavy night before.

[Doctor Gollum]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

Getting so drunk that you were barely conscious seemed to work for me. 

Mice. The pair of you

There are officially only two places you are allowed to be sea sick... The Pentland Firth and going round Cape Horn

You have obviously never done the Belfast / Liverpool crossing, in winter, aboard the old cattle boat. It was horrific. 

Nope, but I have done the Pentland Firth in December... have also been on the old St Ola with waves over the bridge... that was fun

This crossing...

https://youtu.be/298bk2ysznA

On this ship...
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F8%2F7329%2F11405793686_190d285b9b_b.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F62532775%40N03%2F11405793686&docid=iX_T1iAe5oGdNM&tbnid=Voo8yteaRZ75RM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwis0s_TkN_VAhUkIMAKHZNfDUwQMwg4KAgwCA..i&w=1024&h=723&hl=en-GB&client=tablet-android-sony&bih=800&biw=1280&q=mv%20st%20ola%203&ved=0ahUKEwis0s_TkN_VAhUkIMAKHZNfDUwQMwg4KAgwCA&iact=mrc&uact=8

[Andy B]

Tsk .... that's nothing compared to when Michael Fish said we weren't having a hurricane ..... I ended up in the middle it. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Tsk .... that's nothing compared to when Michael Fish said we weren't having a hurricane ..... I ended up in the middle it. 

What hurricane?

https://goo.gl/images/7fw9EF 

[Andy B]

Tsk .... that's nothing compared to when Michael Fish said we weren't having a hurricane ..... I ended up in the middle it. 

What hurricane?

https://goo.gl/images/7fw9EF 

This one .....
https://youtu.be/NnxjZ-aFkjs

[Doctor Gollum]

I know... how else did MV Hengist end up there...

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I got chased by a panda car somewhere in Bedfordshire but I lost him.

That was lucky, in those days and with your accent they'd have had you straight down to Paddington Green! 

Or worse, Colchester barracks, where they could have got STEMO out of his cell to come and interrogate me !! 

[Andy B]

I know... how else did MV Hengist end up there...

You often need the obvious pointing out & we don't always know whether you're having a 5 min argument or the full 10 mins 

[Doctor Gollum]

I know... how else did MV Hengist end up there...

You often need the obvious pointing out & we don't always know whether you're having a 5 min argument or the full 10 mins 

https://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

[TD]

If the weather was bad enough (not bad enough to stop the sailings) the Birkenhead ferry used to end up like a bucket of sick some mornings, and that was a only ten minute commuter journey.
A lot of people must have a heavy night before.

I like going on ferries when the weather is rough....
It doesn't affect me....and best place to head for is the restaurant...usually pretty empty and you get great big portions as there trying shift the food nobody else wants  But you have to hold the plate to stop it sliding of the table...

[ronnyd]

Nope. Like all the other asylum seekers and refugees, I had been here a while but went back home on holiday. 
Anyway, there was no stowing away on that ferry. The crossing was always so rough, you would have to come out of hiding to seek seasick tablets or medical help. 

Getting so drunk that you were barely conscious seemed to work for me. 

Mice. The pair of you

There are officially only two places you are allowed to be sea sick... The Pentland Firth and going round Cape Horn

You have obviously never done the Belfast / Liverpool crossing, in winter, aboard the old cattle boat. It was horrific. 

Nope, but I have done the Pentland Firth in December... have also been on the old St Ola with waves over the bridge... that was fun

This crossing...

https://youtu.be/298bk2ysznA

On this ship...
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F8%2F7329%2F11405793686_190d285b9b_b.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F62532775%40N03%2F11405793686&docid=iX_T1iAe5oGdNM&tbnid=Voo8yteaRZ75RM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwis0s_TkN_VAhUkIMAKHZNfDUwQMwg4KAgwCA..i&w=1024&h=723&hl=en-GB&client=tablet-android-sony&bih=800&biw=1280&q=mv%20st%20ola%203&ved=0ahUKEwis0s_TkN_VAhUkIMAKHZNfDUwQMwg4KAgwCA&iact=mrc&uact=8

Wouldn,t be any good for me DG, i get seasick on a boating pond.