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[Sir Tigger KC]

The Trump hysteria has gone up a few decibels again after the recent events in Charlottesville, Virginia.    Especially after his somewhat angry performance yesterday when he repeated his original assertion that both sides were to blame! 

So you have one group who were carrying out their democratic right to peaceful protest, protesting about the removal of a statue which they see as airbrushing of history and the dismantling of their history and culture.  Many of this group are armed with baseball bats, shields and automatic rifles and are undoubtably nasty, bigoted, racist types.  Given the fact they were 'tooled up' you have to wonder at their peaceful intentions. 

Then you have another group who are protesting about everything that the first group stands for and predictably it all kicks off with tragic consequences. 

The first group are variously described as Alt-right ( ), Far Right, Neo Nazis, White Supremacist, Klu Klux Klan and the second group are described as Civil Rights protesters.

I find describing the second group as Civil Rights protesters ironic given that their whole purpose in being there was to deny the first group their right to protest.    I also think that Trump has a point that both sides are to blame, as if the first group were left alone and ignored the whole event would have passed by peacefully and Charlottesville would have been another town in America that we'd never have heard of. 

I'm in no way endorsing the views of the first or second group of protesters, just trying make sense of the whole thing as this seems to be yet another case of intolerance towards the intolerant.   

[Bigron]

Quite right, Sir Tig, but isn't this typical of America, especially small town America? Taking up a stance for show, in a totally blinkered way, regardless of the truth, actuality or reason?
It has always worried me that such a basically low I.Q. nation should have such power and deadly weaponry at their disposal, controlled by generally simple-minded Presidents - not only Trump. 

Ron.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Quite right, Sir Tig, but isn't this typical of America, especially small town America? Taking up a stance for show, in a totally blinkered way, regardless of the truth, actuality or reason?
It has always worried me that such a basically low I.Q. nation should have such power and deadly weaponry at their disposal, controlled by generally simple-minded Presidents - not only Trump. 

Ron.

Sounds very much like modern, liberal lefty Britain Ron.
I disagree that the U.S. is nation of low I.Q. people. Its like all the other national stereotypes - thick Irish, Tight Scots,ignorant superior French.
That last one os completely true by the way. 
A country the size of America will by definition have just about every type of character possible. We shouldn't forget that the western way of life we all enjoy has been advanced and protected by the Americans for a very long time. 
The rednecks we all like to laugh at, retain a passionate love of freedom of the individual, and mistrust of the state, that I respect hugely, and mourn the gradual loss of across the western world.

[Bigron]

You pick the stereotypes to suit yourself, Albs! The thing about stereotypes is that if they were totally false, they wouldn't be funny; it's the element of truth, plus a little exaggeration, that makes them risible.
I've been to Ireland for a short break and, far from being thick (apart from maybe Dublin - no, they were just bonkers there!), I found everyone SO friendly and helpful.

If what you say about the Americans and I.Q. is to ring true, how do you explain Trump, both Bushes, Reagan and that self-serving womaniser, Clinton?

Ron.

[Entwood]

You pick the stereotypes to suit yourself, Albs! The thing about stereotypes is that if they were totally false, they wouldn't be funny; it's the element of truth, plus a little exaggeration, that makes them risible.
I've been to Ireland for a short break and, far from being thick (apart from maybe Dublin - no, they were just bonkers there!), I found everyone SO friendly and helpful.

If what you say about the Americans and I.Q. is to ring true, how do you explain Trump, both Bushes, Reagan and that self-serving womaniser, Clinton?

Ron.

The guys with the real brains don't enter politics .. they run real companies in the real world and make millions ... all career politicians are actually lazy gits trying to use "us" to make a living ... unfortunately because they have voted to pay themselves very well, even more useless idiots try to join them ... a self preserving dynasty of incompetents .... 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Cant argue with that.
Reagan was a pretty good president by the way imo.
The same question could be asked of us British regarding every post Thatcher PM we have elected. Every one of them has been a complete waste of fresh air. Hence the state of the UK. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Anyway back to Charlottesville....   

Jeremy Whine was talking about this earlier and one thing came up was should they be removing these statues and monuments? 

Broadly I think not because a) We shouldn't judge past events by todays standards as often peoples actions were perfectly acceptable by the standards of the time and b) if these reminders of the past are removed, history could be forgotten and we won't learn from historical mistakes. 

However, one lady on the show said that the US is probably the only country in the world that honours defeated rebels in this way.    Anyhow expect more troubles as the Mayors of several towns and cities in the US have said that they will remove statues and monuments honouring Confederate soldiers and events. 

[Doctor Gollum]

You could argue thst both sides felt the need to be prepared to defend their positions rather than deliberately looking for trouble...

It all kicked off when one person felt that driving a car into one of the groups would be a really good way to make a point...

It's a wonder that more people weren't killed

Whether you agree or disagree with the opinions of those involved, credit where it's due, everyone there to protest at the removal of the statue, and the implications thereof, would do so until their last breaths. The nation and its constitution were hard fought, and it is a good thing that people are passionate enough to defend it.

[Viral_Jim]

The nation and its constitution were hard fought, and it is a good thing that people are passionate enough to defend it.

I would agree with this, if only they weren't *quite* so selective about which bits they choose to defend.

[LC0112G]

Jeremy Whine was talking about this earlier and one thing came up was should they be removing these statues and monuments? 

Broadly I think not because a) We shouldn't judge past events by todays standards as often peoples actions were perfectly acceptable by the standards of the time and b) if these reminders of the past are removed, history could be forgotten and we won't learn from historical mistakes. 

It's happening here too though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/26/historic-music-venue-colston-hall-ditches-name-shared-toxic/

And some of the most "historic" events in British history would be unacceptable today - The Dam Busters Raids, Bomber Harris, Ireland, India, Sudan, Wellington, Nelson and many more all the way back to the Crusades. Yet many of these have statues/memorials that in years to come way become controversial.

[Andy B]

Maybe we should bull doze cities like Liverpool that were built on the back if slavery .....

[Sir Tigger KC]

Trump said yesterday that they should maybe take down the statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson as they were slave owners.   

[Mister Rog]

Never a good idea to try and bleach history.

However one statue where removal was completely and totally justified was that of . . .

. . Michael Jackson at Fulham footbal club. It was just sooooo crap ( Sorry "Bad" for Jacko fans)

[Bigron]

Censorship in ANY form is repugnant, and is indeed the start of a slippery slope.
I know little about Colston, but all UIK slavers were facilitators; the true villains were of course the UIS plantation owners, looking for cheap labour. They are the one who got them out of the jungle (with the willing co-operation of fellow negroes, because white men dare not go into the jungle) and transhipped them to America. The ships of the day were unable to make the journey in one hop, so Liverpool and Bristol were staging posts. Some slaves jumped ship, which accounts for the ethnic mix in those cities.....
Don't use slaving as an excuse for bulldozing Liverpool - just do it! 

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

Censorship in ANY form is repugnant, and is indeed the start of a slippery slope.
I know little about Colston, but all UIK slavers were facilitators; the true villains were of course the UIS plantation owners, looking for cheap labour. They are the one who got them out of the jungle (with the willing co-operation of fellow negroes, because white men dare not go into the jungle) and transhipped them to America. The ships of the day were unable to make the journey in one hop, so Liverpool and Bristol were staging posts. Some slaves jumped ship, which accounts for the ethnic mix in those cities.....
Don't use slaving as an excuse for bulldozing Liverpool - just do it! 

Ron.

You might wish to recheck history...

The slave, and trade, routes went from West Africa to the Caribbean/US. Goods and slaves then followed the trade winds to Europe, with further goods trade back south to West Africa. The clockwise weather pattern of the North Atlantic is about as dependable as rain on a May bank holiday.

Besides, we weren't the only people with colonies... the Portuguese and French were just as efficient. Also, if it weren't for tribal rivalry and greed in West Africa, the whole system wouldn't have worked... as there wouldn't have been a ready supply of slaves without it... Looking at Nigeria today, not much has changed

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Maybe we should bull doze cities like Liverpool that were built on the back if slavery .....

Is there a fund for this ? If so, where can I contribute. 

[Bigron]

I'm largely with you on that, DG, but although not totally innocent in this matter, the English were mainly speculative go-betweens in a human trade that benefitted the greedy plantation owners, and should not have had the disapprobation to the extent that we did.
On a slight aside, the Americans decried our actions in Rhodesia without considering what they did to the Native Americans - the Red Indians. Take the beam from your own eye?

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

The commencement of the slave trade predates he Declaration of Independence by a couple of hundred years, give or take...

The original plantation owners were in fact European... Also, not all plantation owners were tyrants either... the criminalisation of slavery actually resulted in a drop of living standards across the entire labour force. Plenty of poor white people in the Southern States.

Agreed though regarding the hypocrisy regarding central and southern Africa... you can't draw arbitrary straight lines on a map without upsetting the locals.*

*Apparently, you can if you enslave or eradicate them

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

What (supposedly educated and intelligent) people apparently fail to understand is the simple fact that the world was a very very different place centuries ago. Its beyond ludicrous to judge the past by 21st century standards.
It never ceases to amaze me tbh. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

What (supposedly educated and intelligent) people apparently fail to understand is the simple fact that the world was a very very different place centuries ago. Its beyond ludicrous to judge the past by 21st century standards.
It never ceases to amaze me tbh. 

Exactly right.  You must never judge history in the context of standards today other than highlight how we have moved forward.

However, in terms of the right wing groups they lost their right to be protected by society when they supported the fascism that has cost so many their freedom and their lives. That fact is not totally in the past, and by their actions still affects the minority groups of today.

As for statues; how would you feel as a Jew, a communist, a trade unionist, someone who wants and celebrates the freedoms we have today, having a statue of Adolf Hitler in Trafalgar Square?  The statues in the USA of Confederate "heroes" who, amoungst other things, were fighting for the right to maintain slavery, have the "Hitler effect" for blacks, especially with the KKK always present.  Trump is giving a bad message, but at least those statues are being removed and even the confederate flag could be outlawed, as what place does it have in American society other than a negative one?

[Bigron]

I agree 100%, Albs; it is especially true of the Uni students and "intelligencia" who think they are right in everything and want all others to think their way.
Freedom of speech and thought doesn't enter their blinkered minds, despite worls wars having been fought to protect those freedoms.
Would you judge the way cavemen behaved by today's mores? Even as recently as in Victorian times, attitudes and behaviour were vastly different.
If you want to judge people by earlier standards, as recently as 50 years ago, being a homosexual warranted a custodial sentence; is anyone suggesting nowdays that we imprison the uphill gardeners? 

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I agree 100%, Albs; it is especially true of the Uni students and "intelligencia" who think they are right in everything and want all others to think their way.
Freedom of speech and thought doesn't enter their blinkered minds, despite worls wars having been fought to protect those freedoms.
Would you judge the way cavemen behaved by today's mores? Even as recently as in Victorian times, attitudes and behaviour were vastly different.
If you want to judge people by earlier standards, as recently as 50 years ago, being a homosexual warranted a custodial sentence; is anyone suggesting nowdays that we imprison the uphill gardeners?

Ron.

The big difference is that fascists have never gone away and still represent the extreme evil they did in the 1920's/30's/40's, and can hardly be compared to homosexuality which has never killed millions, and anyway is just not comparable; like chalk and cheese.

[Bigron]

The big difference is that fascists have never gone away and still represent the extreme evil they did in the 1920's/30's/40's, and can hardly be compared to homosexuality which has never killed millions, and anyway is just not comparable; like chalk and cheese.
[/quote]

Aids?

[Lizzie Zoom]

The big difference is that fascists have never gone away and still represent the extreme evil they did in the 1920's/30's/40's, and can hardly be compared to homosexuality which has never killed millions, and anyway is just not comparable; like chalk and cheese.

Aids?
[/quote]

That was down to poor hygiene and a lack of contraception, along with nature, not a deliberate political party's act of one fascist group to dominate the world and rid it of "undesirables".

[Bigron]

Dear Lizzie, you are following your own agenda here and deliberately subverting the point I was making - I was giving a very recent example of how attitudes and mores change, even in such a short space of time and what was punishable is now acceptable.

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Dear Lizzie, you are following your own agenda here and deliberately subverting the point I was making - I was giving a very recent example of how attitudes and mores change, even in such a short space of time and what was punishable is now acceptable.

Ron.

Not at all Ron. I was making the point that it is, and never will be acceptable to kill 6 million Jews, and create a war that caused 60 million deaths.  The fascists in the USA have the same racial attitudes and intentions of the Nazis, so do you believe they are now suddenly acceptable, or ever could be?

Could attitudes ever change on that in our life time?

[STEMO]

Maybe we should bull doze cities like Liverpool that were built on the back if slavery .....

Erm...hello....you're forgetting rum, tobacco and sugar. Nowt wrong with them.

Should never have built that canal thingy, though. Gave the Mancs ideas above their station. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Stalin killed 50 million or so iirc, yet the cretins who are allowed to vote in this country recently came close to electing a group of people who think he is some kind of God.
Some people in the South of the USA,  unfortunately sometimes allow their passion for small govt. freedom of the individual and love of Southern culture. to drag them into a dead end of right wing extremism.
In the grand scheme of things its not a huge problem but must be kept an eye on. The more the liberals from NYC etc. try to combat this by talk of banning the confederate flag, and pulling down statues of people they don't like, and generally forcing non compliance of their version of Liberalism into submission, the more the resistance will grow.
Its a much smaller problem than the far left (Momentum for example) who are coming to have great influence in the UK.
British Jews have more to fear from Corbyns Labour, than US Jews do from the "good ol boys" down in the South. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Maybe we should bull doze cities like Liverpool that were built on the back if slavery .....

Erm...hello....you're forgetting rum, tobacco and sugar. Nowt wrong with them.

Should never have built that canal thingy, though. Gave the Mancs ideas above their station. 

The Mancchester Shit Canal?

One good tidal wave would take care of Warrington and Mancchester in one easy go...

And wash it all out to sea

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

We can but dream. 

[Gaffers]

Do not confuse support for Trump and the opinions of the Alt right with a lack of intelligence amongst Americans.  It runs a lot deeper than that.

[Andy B]

.....

Should never have built that canal thingy, though. Gave the Mancs ideas above their station. 

 

[Doctor Gollum]

Do not confuse support for Trump and the opinions of the Alt right with a lack of intelligence amongst Americans.  It runs a lot deeper than that.

Agreed, ingrained in mindsets since the first settlers...

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

And thankfully ( in the case of "support for Trump), enough of them seeing Hilary for what she was.

[Rods2]

The political spectrum is an almost complete circle.

1. On the far right the Nazis, KKK, White Supremacists who want to return to a feudal system, no freedom of speech or action, no property rights, no independent judiciary, kill those that don't fit their idea of a perfect race and not totally dedicated to the cause and all those that express any independence of thought or deed and are a danger to the state and party, state run everything, absolute obedience and mass pauperism and slavery of the populous except for the chosen ones in the party.

2. On the far left you have communists, Marxists, Maoists and Trotskyists who want to return to a feudal system, no freedom of speech or action, no property rights, no independent judiciary, kill all those who don't fit and not totally dedicated to the cause and all those that express any independence in thought or deed and are a danger to the state and party, state run everything, absolute obedience and mass pauperism and slavery of the populous except for the chosen ones in the party.

The far right and far left hate each other where they are both trying to recruit from the same pool of misfits.

I've no time what-so-ever for 1 or 2 where we should banish these misfits from mainstream society and treat them for what they are. Call me old fashioned, but I like my democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom of economic activity, freedom of markets, all people being treated as equals in society and the eyes of the law, property rights, an independent judiciary, every increasing health, age spans, material and economic wealth and will fight with passion to justify and keep them and so should all of you. Be thankful for living in the West, be thankful for living in one of the freest and wealthy countries on earth, be thankful for what I, you and we as a society have got.

I at times take quite a lot of flak, where I have no time for dictators and despots where everything is about them, I will always fight and oppose them and defend our democracy as it is by far the best system this planet has got.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

One of the "victims" of events in Charlottesville has told reporters that she wont rest until she has driven Trump from office.
Doncha just love those Democrats ? 

[aaronjb]

One of the "victims" of events in Charlottesville has told reporters that she wont rest until she has driven Trump from office.
Doncha just love those Democrats ? 

Same as Brexit here, really.. all* the remainers: "This decision must be overturned!"

(*I know not all, but why let a little fact ruin a post? )

[Lizzie Zoom]

The political spectrum is an almost complete circle.

1. On the far right the Nazis, KKK, White Supremacists who want to return to a feudal system, no freedom of speech or action, no property rights, no independent judiciary, kill those that don't fit their idea of a perfect race and not totally dedicated to the cause and all those that express any independence of thought or deed and are a danger to the state and party, state run everything, absolute obedience and mass pauperism and slavery of the populous except for the chosen ones in the party.

2. On the far left you have communists, Marxists, Maoists and Trotskyists who want to return to a feudal system, no freedom of speech or action, no property rights, no independent judiciary, kill all those who don't fit and not totally dedicated to the cause and all those that express any independence in thought or deed and are a danger to the state and party, state run everything, absolute obedience and mass pauperism and slavery of the populous except for the chosen ones in the party.

The far right and far left hate each other where they are both trying to recruit from the same pool of misfits.

I've no time what-so-ever for 1 or 2 where we should banish these misfits from mainstream society and treat them for what they are. Call me old fashioned, but I like my democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom of economic activity, freedom of markets, all people being treated as equals in society and the eyes of the law, property rights, an independent judiciary, every increasing health, age spans, material and economic wealth and will fight with passion to justify and keep them and so should all of you. Be thankful for living in the West, be thankful for living in one of the freest and wealthy countries on earth, be thankful for what I, you and we as a society have got.

I at times take quite a lot of flak, where I have no time for dictators and despots where everything is about them, I will always fight and oppose them and defend our democracy as it is by far the best system this planet has got.

As usual, I am in absolute agreement with your synopsis Rod

[Bigron]

One of the "victims" of events in Charlottesville has told reporters that she wont rest until she has driven Trump from office.
Doncha just love those Democrats ? 

Albs, as we are both well aware, democracy and socialism rarely co-exist.

Ron.

[Nick W]

One of the "victims" of events in Charlottesville has told reporters that she wont rest until she has driven Trump from office.
Doncha just love those Democrats ? 

Albs, as we are both well aware, democracy and socialism rarely co-exist.

Ron.

Socialism is a word that's massively overused, it's come to mean "a bit more left wing than I'm prepared to accept" rather than any proper definition.

[Bigron]

I accept your criticism, Nick, but I still regard "Democrat" as a misnomer.

Ron.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Stalin killed 50 million or so iirc, yet the cretins who are allowed to vote in this country recently came close to electing a group of people who think he is some kind of God.
Some people in the South of the USA,  unfortunately sometimes allow their passion for small govt. freedom of the individual and love of Southern culture. to drag them into a dead end of right wing extremism.
In the grand scheme of things its not a huge problem but must be kept an eye on. The more the liberals from NYC etc. try to combat this by talk of banning the confederate flag, and pulling down statues of people they don't like, and generally forcing non compliance of their version of Liberalism into submission, the more the resistance will grow.
Its a much smaller problem than the far left (Momentum for example) who are coming to have great influence in the UK.
British Jews have more to fear from Corbyns Labour, than US Jews do from the "good ol boys" down in the South. 

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

......it seems I missed out 'Darzett'. They are an odd bunch down that way.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

......it seems I missed out 'Darzett'. They are an odd bunch down that way.

No webbed feet round here M'lud! 

[Nick W]

I accept your criticism, Nick, but I still regard "Democrat" as a misnomer.

Ron.

That's because it relates to the other US party the Republicans, not a democratic system. There are as many definitions of 'democracy' as there are countries who claim to be democratic. And that's before any of these terms are thrown about as insults, thus rendering them utterly useless.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

......it seems I missed out 'Darzett'. They are an odd bunch down that way.

No webbed feet round here M'lud! 

How many heads does the 'average' person have down you neck of the woods, Sir Tig?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

......it seems I missed out 'Darzett'. They are an odd bunch down that way.

No webbed feet round here M'lud! 

How many heads does the 'average' person have down you neck of the woods, Sir Tig?

That's depends on whether they have one hidden up their arse or not M'lud. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

......it seems I missed out 'Darzett'. They are an odd bunch down that way.

No webbed feet round here M'lud! 

How many heads does the 'average' person have down you neck of the woods, Sir Tig?

That's depends on whether they have one hidden up their arse or not M'lud. 

I hear the large central eye gives excellent vision in low light.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Conveniently missing out the county inbetween M'lud .... 

......it seems I missed out 'Darzett'. They are an odd bunch down that way.

No webbed feet round here M'lud! 

How many heads does the 'average' person have down you neck of the woods, Sir Tig?

That's depends on whether they have one hidden up their arse or not M'lud. 

I hear the large central eye gives excellent vision in low light.

Wouldn't know M'lud.  No large central eye here, my second head has a little central japs eye. 

[Viral_Jim]

I've no time what-so-ever for 1 or 2 where we should banish these misfits from mainstream society and treat them for what they are. Call me old fashioned, but I like my democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom of economic activity, freedom of markets, all people being treated as equals in society and the eyes of the law, property rights, an independent judiciary, every increasing health, age spans, material and economic wealth and will fight with passion to justify and keep them and so should all of you. Be thankful for living in the West, be thankful for living in one of the freest and wealthy countries on earth, be thankful for what I, you and we as a society have got.

I at times take quite a lot of flak, where I have no time for dictators and despots where everything is about them, I will always fight and oppose them and defend our democracy as it is by far the best system this planet has got.

And therin, for the US at least, lies a big part of the issue. Non-white people are not treated equally and never have been. They are heavily profiled by the police, treated more harshly by the judiciary (on the basis of like-for-like offences) and then sent to work in "for profit" prisons which focus on using them as free labour rather than on rehabilitating them. Thereby setting them up to re-offend when they are released, so they can drop back into the free labour pool nice and quick!

Still, at least it reduces the carbon footprint compared to shipping their free labour in from Africa like they used to  .

Not disagreeing with your post BTW, seems like an accurate synopsis to me!

[Sir Tigger KC]

I was gobsmacked at the segregation in society when I first went to the US. 

In Houston at least you don't or rarely see a group of youngsters of all races having fun like you do here.  Mixed race couples are very rare and my friends and their friends thought it was strange that I was getting the bus around.  I was the only white person on the bus! 

[Rods2]

I was gobsmacked at the segregation in society when I first went to the US. 

In Houston at least you don't or rarely see a group of youngsters of all races having fun like you do here.  Mixed race couples are very rare and my friends and their friends thought it was strange that I was getting the bus around.  I was the only white person on the bus! 

We are fortunate as one of the world's most integrated multicultural societies. The US still has major problems along with most European countries.

[aaronjb]

I was gobsmacked at the segregation in society when I first went to the US. 

In Houston at least you don't or rarely see a group of youngsters of all races having fun like you do here.  Mixed race couples are very rare and my friends and their friends thought it was strange that I was getting the bus around.  I was the only white person on the bus! 

On a bus in Houston? You were probably lucky not to get stabbed, gringo!

(OK, ok, that's probably more San Antonio than Houston..)

[Mr Gav]

Trouble is these 'good ol boys' from the south live in a shack with their sister and their 'momma'.......and after too much moonshine the 'good ol boy' does what comes natural. We then have a new generation of young 'good ol boys'  with a strange number of fingers and toes.

Much like Norfolk and Yorkshire in that respect.

Daisy Duke seemed pretty normal though.

Far Cough  

[Lizzie Zoom]

I was gobsmacked at the segregation in society when I first went to the US. 

In Houston at least you don't or rarely see a group of youngsters of all races having fun like you do here.  Mixed race couples are very rare and my friends and their friends thought it was strange that I was getting the bus around.  I was the only white person on the bus! 

When I first went there in 1990 we as a family found ourselves waiting for a hotel bus as our plane connection had been missed thanks to TWA and around JFK Airport it was chaos due to severe rainstorms.

People were getting angry and bothered in a long queue, in sweltering steamy heat, with few hotel buses getting through, and when they did they were full.  A bus arrived eventually and before we knew it a white guy was shouting at a black man "get off that f.cking bus you f.king n.gger or i'll f.cking shoot you" as he waved a gun around. Friends of the white man threw the black man and his luggage off the bus and they got on.  My husband pulled us back away from all this and said wisely "we are the foreigners here, keep well back!".

Yes, it was the first of many eye openers around the subject of ethnic race in the USA!

[Varche]

I wonder where all the marvelous statues are going to?

Spain despite the Conservative party being against it, is quietly cleansing itself of things Franco. That is very much a left wing project.

I hope Britain never follows suit as a lot of our fine heritage ( as previously said) would have to go.

[Viral_Jim]

I wonder where all the marvelous statues are going to?

TBH I am surprised the republicans are against the removal, afterall, they are well known and vocal haters of participation trophies 

[Rods2]

A bigot, a white supremacist and a woman groper walk into a bar. The barman looked up and asked: What do you want to drink, Mr Trump?

[TheBoy]

Some people need shooting. On both sides. (At the risk of sounding like Trump  )