Topic: 3.2 Coolant Leak (Read 9560 times)

tunnie · « **on:** 17 August 2016, 11:33:23 »

The 3.2 has developed a leak, I can see moisture around where the engine block meets gearbox bell housing. It's dripping from two torx bolts, that said there is moisture around the engine sump.

Checked HBV, pipes all dry. Appears to loose coolant on the move, nothing much on the ground after being parked up. Lost around 2 fingers worth from header tank from 25 mile run, clear whiff of coolant when opening the door after stopping.

Had good feel around back of the block, can't feel anything. Can only think of the oil cooler plate or coolant bridge? But would expect bigger losses, oil looks fine.

Just what I don't need this week.

Muroman · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 August 2016, 13:31:50 »

My leakage:
2014/07 started loosing coolant, dripped from same place as yours. Nothing wrong anywhere. 1 Litre/ per 70l benzin

2014/11 was determined that it is the oil cooler as I noticed some gunk on water.
2014-2015 winter all problems losing coolant and gunk on oil and water.
2015/04 found out broken head gasket.

-Mika

Bojan · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 August 2016, 13:53:15 »

That area around HBV is really the worst one when you need to find a leak or something, IMO. Really cramped up.
Any of hoses leaking in that area would drip down the bell-housing.

I would remove the scuttle, have a short drive around, and then check all this hoses (visually and by hand). With engine running, if needed. Or at least on operating temp.

As for broken head-gasket -> this affected only 98-99 V6 engines, AFAIK.

joff · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 August 2016, 14:27:18 »

Quote from: tunnie on 17 August 2016, 11:33:23

The 3.2 has developed a leak, I can see moisture around where the engine block meets gearbox bell housing. It's dripping from two torx bolts, that said there is moisture around the engine sump.

Checked HBV, pipes all dry. Appears to loose coolant on the move, nothing much on the ground after being parked up. Lost around 2 fingers worth from header tank from 25 mile run, clear whiff of coolant when opening the door after stopping.

Had good feel around back of the block, can't feel anything. Can only think of the oil cooler plate or coolant bridge? But would expect bigger losses, oil looks fine.
Just what I don't need this week.

Had the same with mine in April this year at around 100K, it was the seal on the oil cooler. I had a new one so put it in and now all fine again but then the HBV went again after only 18 months so now has another new one and all fine again

Oil coolers are not cheep now if you go down the main dealer road.

tunnie · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 August 2016, 14:50:55 »

Quote from: Muroman on 17 August 2016, 13:31:50

My leakage:
2014/07 started loosing coolant, dripped from same place as yours. Nothing wrong anywhere. 1 Litre/ per 70l benzin
2014/11 was determined that it is the oil cooler as I noticed some gunk on water.
2014-2015 winter all problems losing coolant and gunk on oil and water.
2015/04 found out broken head gasket.

-Mika

Hope it's not that.

No rough running or other issues? Just coolant loss?

tunnie · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 August 2016, 14:51:25 »

Quote from: joff on 17 August 2016, 14:27:18

Quote from: tunnie on 17 August 2016, 11:33:23
The 3.2 has developed a leak, I can see moisture around where the engine block meets gearbox bell housing. It's dripping from two torx bolts, that said there is moisture around the engine sump.

Checked HBV, pipes all dry. Appears to loose coolant on the move, nothing much on the ground after being parked up. Lost around 2 fingers worth from header tank from 25 mile run, clear whiff of coolant when opening the door after stopping.

Had good feel around back of the block, can't feel anything. Can only think of the oil cooler plate or coolant bridge? But would expect bigger losses, oil looks fine.
Just what I don't need this week.

Had the same with mine in April this year at around 100K, it was the seal on the oil cooler. I had a new one so put it in and now all fine again but then the HBV went again after only 18 months so now has another new one and all fine again

Oil coolers are not cheep now if you go down the main dealer road.

My next area to check, with inlet manifold off. Was the loss constant or did it get worse?

tunnie · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 August 2016, 14:52:08 »

Quote from: Bojan on 17 August 2016, 13:53:15

That area around HBV is really the worst one when you need to find a leak or something, IMO. Really cramped up.
Any of hoses leaking in that area would drip down the bell-housing.

I would remove the scuttle, have a short drive around, and then check all this hoses (visually and by hand). With engine running, if needed. Or at least on operating temp.

As for broken head-gasket -> this affected only 98-99 V6 engines, AFAIK.

I can fairly easy get my hands all around the HBV and below without any issues, it's all dry as far as I can see.

tunnie · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 August 2016, 14:52:53 »

After 25 mile run, parked in an underground car park. Not a drop of the floor, it's lost half the supply in the header tank $:-\$

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 August 2016, 14:53:50 »

Get home and remove inlet whilst the kettle is on...

Also check radiator, especially left hand end, for cracks/leaks...

tunnie · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 August 2016, 15:56:32 »

Checked rad, it's all fine as far as I can see. I'd expect drips while parked if that $:-\$

Sadly I can't get the plenum and inlet off until week after next.

joff · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 August 2016, 17:35:09 »

Quote from: tunnie on 17 August 2016, 15:56:32

Checked rad, it's all fine as far as I can see. I'd expect drips while parked if that $:-\$

Sadly I can't get the plenum and inlet off until week after next.

Best keep a can of coolant in the car then, mine would use 1/2 ltr just driving home 8 miles

tunnie · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 August 2016, 18:01:31 »

Yes keeping a bottle in the boot, expansion tank dropped by about half again on the trip home of 25 miles. So it's a consistent leak for now

Muroman · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 August 2016, 10:45:52 »

Quote from: tunnie on 17 August 2016, 14:50:55

Quote from: Muroman on 17 August 2016, 13:31:50
My leakage:
2014/07 started loosing coolant, dripped from same place as yours. Nothing wrong anywhere. 1 Litre/ per 70l benzin
2014/11 was determined that it is the oil cooler as I noticed some gunk on water.
2014-2015 winter all problems losing coolant and gunk on oil and water.
2015/04 found out broken head gasket.

-Mika

Hope it's not that.

No rough running or other issues? Just coolant loss?

There wasn't anything else.

Yes anyone doesn't want that to happen

tunnie · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 August 2016, 11:43:06 »

So I parked the car in a different spot at home yesterday, there is not a single drop of liquid on the driveway. It's bone dry, nothing! Yet it's dropped in the header tank, I checked when hot, now cold it's dropped a fair bit.

Next check is the cap, but if it was the coolant plate or bridge I'd expect some leakage on the driveway after a run. $:-\$

Have a horrible feeling it is head gasket.

Entwood · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 August 2016, 12:00:16 »

Quote from: tunnie on 18 August 2016, 11:43:06

So I parked the car in a different spot at home yesterday, there is not a single drop of liquid on the driveway. It's bone dry, nothing! Yet it's dropped in the header tank, I checked when hot, now cold it's dropped a fair bit.

Next check is the cap, but if it was the coolant plate or bridge I'd expect some leakage on the driveway after a run. $:-\$

Have a horrible feeling it is head gasket.

When it is hot and nicely pressurised paint some diluted washing up liquid around the cap seat AND the header tank neck, not unknown for hairline cracks to be there which will lead to loss by evaporation.

Another trick is to add a decent amount of bright yellow food colouring to the header tank, so you have a REALLY yellow coloured coolant system .... leaks are then more easily noticed, especially those where the water is rapidly evaporating, as a yellow stain is left behind....

........I've never tried it .. but perhaps a headgasket leakage into the cylinder then the exhaust system "might" show up as a stained exhaust pipe ?? or yellow on a cloth held over the exhaust whilst running ?? $:-\$ $:-\$

tunnie · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 August 2016, 12:03:06 »

Good idea. Will try that

Bojan · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 August 2016, 12:17:44 »

If the coolant is entering the cylinder, then some of the compression from the cylinder would be forced into the cooling system.
With engine running (on operating temp), take off the coolant cap -> the coolant level will rise significantly, but shouldn't 'errupt'.

omegod · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 August 2016, 12:31:34 »

Pop the 3 trim panels off and have a gander when it's hot, I had an invisible crack on the top of plastic tank passenger side of rad and it would evaporate instantly and the crack would close as the tank cooled, was quite a bugger to find !! Finger crossed it's summat less than HGF

X30XE · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 August 2016, 12:40:22 »

I'll have a tenner on it being the gaskets on the coolant bridge. Fortunately you haven't got to worry about it "hydrating" the DIS pack on the 3.2

As you well know, HG is very very uncommon.

Nick W · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 August 2016, 13:22:55 »

Quote from: Bojan on 18 August 2016, 12:17:44

If the coolant is entering the cylinder, then some of the compression from the cylinder would be forced into the cooling system.
With engine running (on operating temp), take off the coolant cap -> the coolant level will rise significantly, but shouldn't 'errupt'.

I used to think that, but my 3.0 rotten head gaskets leaked coolant into the cylinders(extra steam from the exhaust was the clue) but didn't affect the cooling system.

X30XE · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 August 2016, 13:39:33 »

Quote from: Nick W on 18 August 2016, 13:22:55

Quote from: Bojan on 18 August 2016, 12:17:44
If the coolant is entering the cylinder, then some of the compression from the cylinder would be forced into the cooling system.
With engine running (on operating temp), take off the coolant cap -> the coolant level will rise significantly, but shouldn't 'errupt'.

I used to think that, but my 3.0 rotten head gaskets leaked coolant into the cylinders(extra steam from the exhaust was the clue) but didn't affect the cooling system.

Must be something to do with capilary action I presume. The water migrates through the cracks but the rapid attack and decay of the cylinder compression doesn't have time to permeate backwards. $:-\$

terry paget · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 August 2016, 17:50:39 »

Most of the time the cylinder pressure is less than atmospheric. Hot coolant is always above atmospheric pressure. Therefore coolant migration into the cylinder is the most likely outcome of head gasket failure.

TD · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 August 2016, 18:09:16 »

You could get an exhaust gas sniffer....if the head gasket is gone, it should detect exhaust gases in the coolant header tank

tunnie · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 August 2016, 18:53:05 »

Thanks All

Quote from: X30XE on 18 August 2016, 12:40:22

I'll have a tenner on it being the gaskets on the coolant bridge. Fortunately you haven't got to worry about it "hydrating" the DIS pack on the 3.2

As you well know, HG is very very uncommon.

Good shout, gave it a good drive today. Stopped straight away and looked under with it running, a consistent fast drop off gearbox bell housing where it meets engine block.

tunnie · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 August 2016, 18:53:33 »

I would whip the plenum off tonight, but have other things on until next weekend.

terry paget · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 August 2016, 21:03:50 »

Quote from: X30XE on 18 August 2016, 12:40:22

I'll have a tenner on it being the gaskets on the coolant bridge. Fortunately you haven't got to worry about it "hydrating" the DIS pack on the 3.2

As you well know, HG is very very uncommon.

This thing? Sealed with a couple of dowty washers, as I recall. Certanly in the right place to drip at the back of the engine.

TheBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 August 2016, 21:10:30 »

Need to pop the inlets out to see if coolant bridge, the helter skelter pipe, oil cooler cover or stat. All can come from that area.

I've had 2 HG faults on the V6, but doubt this is a HG.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #27 on:** 18 August 2016, 23:53:28 »

Nope, definitely HG...

Give you £100 for it

joff · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 August 2016, 12:17:37 »

Quote from: tunnie on 18 August 2016, 18:53:33

I would whip the plenum off tonight, but have other things on until next weekend.

Same as I had in April (oil cooler seal)

Webby the Bear · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 August 2016, 20:28:43 »

You've probably got a nice build up of coolant in the 'v'. I'd guess thermostat or coolant bridge. Would explain no drippage followed by drippage (as the 'v' overflows

DrAndyB · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 August 2016, 21:51:05 »

Same area as me but the sounds a few years ago, drips on the same bolts on bell housing ?

Mine was oil cooler plate seal. Daz sorted it for me

It seemed to only drip say 15 mins after car had cooler down from warm as never did it initially on park up. Then dripped a small puddle, not much, hey enough to notice on garage floor, and then stopped dripping as it cooled down. Guess this was to to with heat expansion and contraction of different materials and coolant pressure ?

Re sealed cooler plate and not missed a beat since. Worst bit was removing the oil cooler pipes as advice here is NOT TO BEND THEM, REMOVE THEM no matter how tempting. And replace dowty washers whilst your there.

Hope you get it sorted.

Andy.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 August 2016, 12:04:10 »

Had to reseal a few oil cooler plates on 3.2s now...

Bojan · « **Reply #32 on:** 30 August 2016, 06:45:17 »

So, any news?
Have you found the leak?

tunnie · « **Reply #33 on:** 30 August 2016, 10:52:49 »

Identified it yesterday, it is the HBV. Although it was dry after a drive, I found that if started it for a short amount if time (30-60 seconds) then switch off and repeat I found it.

Looking in all suspect areas with a torch I found a small drip from the HBV itself, not any of the pipes connecting into it, but the valve itself. Just need to look into ordering a replacement

Sir Tigger KC · « **Reply #34 on:** 30 August 2016, 11:05:12 »

Bloody crap things!

terry paget · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 August 2016, 15:07:46 »

Phew! That had us going for a while. Glad you have finally found it. You won't be sure until you have changed the valve and driven a few miles without coolant loss. Good luck.
Pity the independent garage that has a customer breeze in asking it to correct a coolant loss, and does all the wrong things first. A guy set up shop in Midsomer Norton 16 years ago, seemed friendly, willing and bright. After 3 years he packed it in, a broken man, complaining that it was 'doing his head in, trying to sort modern cars'. MOTs are profitable, repairs are tough.

tunnie · « **Reply #36 on:** 30 August 2016, 15:13:00 »

In 11 years of Omega ownership, it's my first HBV that's failed, not bad going

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #37 on:** 30 August 2016, 15:14:19 »

Well, that's two of us that's done their HBV, then. We'll see how mine goes. touch wood we're both in the clear.

Nick W · « **Reply #38 on:** 30 August 2016, 15:18:33 »

Quote from: Diamond Black Geezer on 30 August 2016, 15:14:19

Well, that's two of us that's done their HBV, then. We'll see how mine goes. touch wood we're both in the clear.

I did one on Friday. They're much easier on a 4 cylinder, as there's no way I'd do a V6 on a hot engine.

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #39 on:** 30 August 2016, 15:30:34 »

I was down doing the thermostat, so you can picture the state of the engine at that point! The HBV was a piece of cake - but as I say, with the top third of the engine missing.

tunnie · « **Reply #40 on:** 30 August 2016, 15:57:01 »

Not looking forward to it, access bloody pain. Hate working on the V6's

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #41 on:** 30 August 2016, 16:20:29 »

I'd say that if you've no other reason to strip the engine down (spark plugs, etc) try taking the scuttle off instead of the plenum, far less room for cokcup re: vac leaks, not re-seating the plenum properly etc..

Don't know if I'm the only one to have done this, but I've binned the 24,000 clips that hold the plastic scuttle trim on, mine's held on with the wiper spindles, it doesnt need anything else. Also make whipping the NS panel for pollen filter change very easy and a 10 second job. Just a £1 blob of black sealent to keep the DIS pack nice and dry and you're there.

joff · « **Reply #42 on:** 30 August 2016, 16:20:37 »

Quote from: tunnie on 30 August 2016, 15:57:01

Not looking forward to it, access bloody pain. Hate working on the V6's

As said had two dealer HBVs go in 18 months on mine. Just take the scuttle off and there it is.

TheBoy · « **Reply #43 on:** 30 August 2016, 20:14:03 »

Its not a bad job with scuttle off, but better molegrips than the ones you have might make it easier.

Part is surprisingly cheap, about £20 IIRC.

terry paget · « **Reply #44 on:** 30 August 2016, 23:00:04 »

The hose clips are tricky to remove. This tool might help.
Flexible Long Reach Locking Hose Clamp Removal Pliers Ratchet Tool Clip

Bojan · « **Reply #45 on:** 31 August 2016, 07:01:26 »

It can quite easily be done with scuttle off if you have the tool terry mentioned.

It's good to have it for in general, as all clamps are self-clamping type, and lot of them are almost imposible to reach with pliers or similar usual tools.

Good thing it's nothing worse.

robson · « **Reply #46 on:** 31 August 2016, 08:17:56 »

Can anybody give a link to the best tool to use.

terry paget · « **Reply #47 on:** 31 August 2016, 08:24:34 »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BERGEN-Long-Reach-Flexible-Hose-Clamp-Clip-Band-Ratcheting-Removal-Pliers-Tool-/301623975968?hash=item463a30a020:g:X8AAAOSwstxVS28J

Lot on e-bay, some in boxed kits with other tools, very tempting.

Nick W · « **Reply #48 on:** 31 August 2016, 08:35:57 »

Quote from: terry paget on 30 August 2016, 23:00:04

The hose clips are tricky to remove. This tool might help.
Flexible Long Reach Locking Hose Clamp Removal Pliers Ratchet Tool Clip

That makes the job much easier.
The next step is a handful of Jubilee clips and the flexible driver for them.

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #49 on:** 31 August 2016, 09:03:47 »

I've used mole grips on all mine thus far, and found them to be 'fine' for the job, but aware this doesn't feel quite right and there must be a more accurate tool for the job. Also you can't always get in to get the clamp off well. This is now on my Christmas list

Can recommend mole grips as far, far better than struggling with a normal set of pliers, if you don't have one of these tools, however

tunnie · « **Reply #50 on:** 31 August 2016, 13:08:34 »

Is 090566947 the correct part number for HBV? $:-\$

tunnie · « **Reply #51 on:** 31 August 2016, 14:59:21 »

Quote from: TheBoy on 30 August 2016, 20:14:03

Its not a bad job with scuttle off, but better molegrips than the ones you have might make it easier.

Part is surprisingly cheap, about £20 IIRC.

Ordered, part number changed. I sourced off here 905 669 47, first came back £36+vat

New part number: 955 174 83, £15+vat. on TC

Diamond Black Geezer · « **Reply #52 on:** 31 August 2016, 15:24:03 »

That price not worth buying aftermarket, good stuff

tunnie · « **Reply #53 on:** 03 September 2016, 13:14:46 »

Just changed HBV, hardest part was getting wipers off. Stuck on

Easy enough, now running it up to temp with cap off so no trapped air.

But I've accidentally snapped off the vacume hose pipe above the coil pack, main vac tube comes off the tank. Then goes into a joiner above the coil pack plug, the vac pipe off there, I've snapped it off

It was so brittle.

Is it best to run with the vac leak or tape it up until I get a replacement part?

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #54 on:** 03 September 2016, 17:31:00 »

Carefully drill a 2mm deep hole into vac valve using a bit the size of the spigot. Then superglue the spigot to the valve

Hope you have the heater temp set to Hi on both sides with the fan on minimum setting...

johnnydog · « **Reply #55 on:** 08 September 2016, 21:08:56 »

When I did the HBV on my 2.6 3 years ago due to the usual drips from the rear of the engine area, I removed the scuttle for access, but also a 5 minute job to remove the wiper motor and linkage (as the wiper arms are already off) just gave a bit more access to make the job easier. Incidentally, fitted a genuine a GM valve, thoroughly flushed the cooling system, and it's been fine ever since. Worth checking on the powersounder battery whilst you are in there, I would say.....

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Author Topic: 3.2 Coolant Leak (Read 9560 times)