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[Kevin Wood]

Just been for a ride in this: 

[Raeturbo]

Hope you kept your chin up

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Took me a second but I got it 

10/10 

[dave the builder]

Cool
dropping napalm as part of TB's cull 
or a more selective tidy up with the 50 cal 

[Doctor Gollum]

Right time, right place

Haven't been in one of those since I was about 7

[Raeturbo]

My son was jumping off the back of one of them with full marine kit at about 12.000 ft Afghanistan 

[Andy B]

My son was jumping off the back of one of them with full marine kit at about 12.000 ft Afghanistan 

[Andy B]

I've stood next to one in the Falklands .... they're HUGE 

[Raeturbo]

Yes indeed and powerful

[ronnyd]

At least you got back down ok. They used to have a nasty habit of falling out of the sky. Must have been a great buzz.

[Kevin Wood]

Cool
dropping napalm as part of TB's cull 
or a more selective tidy up with the 50 cal 

Maybe next time they'll let me loose on the weapons systems.

They could have chucked it around a bit more, TBH, but with 20 civvies in the back I'm guessing they didn't fancy a clean-up job.

Still, it was very cool and quite serene inside considering all the whining and throbbing going on from the outside.

Very little vibration or sensation of engine load at any point. Just seemed effortless.

[aaronjb]

Very little vibration or sensation of engine load at any point. Just seemed effortless.

Assuming it's an F then it has what, 9000hp? It'd have to be 20 really, really fat civvies to give it any kind of trouble! (If it's a RAF C or D then it "only" has ~7500hp, but even so..)

What's their lifting capacity, something like 10t?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Wow! Lucky bugger! 

[Doctor Gollum]

If the ones that buzz past here are any measure, they sound like at least half of that power is purely to make noise

[Lizzie Zoom]

What a great trip!

I would love to fly in one of those, and have done since seeing them on the TV in news reports on the Vietnam War.  The other Nam helicopter that I wanted to fly in was of course the Bell UH-1 Iroquois or Huey.  I once knew a retired USAF pilot that flew them in that war, but regretfully for me he would never want to talk about it as he was disgusted and ashamed by what he saw in the name of his country.

I wonder what the oldest flying Chinook is, and indeed the Huey?

What stories they could tell!

[Gaffers]

Wocka-wocka bird My favourite 'chopper'.  I was doing some work on a flight sim once and got a chance to fly it, very easy compared to a Gazelle that's for sure.  They are great fun as a passenger too in the right hands.  Aerobatics in them was great fun until someone spued all over everyone strapped down to the floor (about 30 of us with kit)

Having spent nearly 8 months living next to the hospital landing pad in Afghan I still find their distinctive sound soothing, they always bring a smile to my face anyway. 

[omegod]

One of the only decent shows Mike Brewer did was the story of Bravo November, the sole Chinook on the Falklands during the conflict that is still flying now

Can't find a link to it even though i only watched it last week

[tigers_gonads]

A few of us hitched a lift back in one from Gutersloh back to Laarbruch in 89 after fixing one of our kites that eat a bird 
2 of us sat on the floor at the backend (strapped down) with the ramp down for the trip back because we thought it would be a nice trip home 
Well instead of enjoying the German countryside, the pilot decided to fly around every tree, building, over every dip he could, as hard as he could (just for the hell of it like  )
Could have punched the bastid. much to the amusement of the lads who took great pleasure of laughing and ripping the piss out of me screaming like a little bitch   

Weirdly, I really miss those days ..........
 

[LC0112G]

What a great trip!

I would love to fly in one of those, and have done since seeing them on the TV in news reports on the Vietnam War.  The other Nam helicopter that I wanted to fly in was of course the Bell UH-1 Iroquois or Huey.  I once knew a retired USAF pilot that flew them in that war, but regretfully for me he would never want to talk about it as he was disgusted and ashamed by what he saw in the name of his country.

I wonder what the oldest flying Chinook is, and indeed the Huey?

What stories they could tell!

The oldest flyable Wokka is believed to be serial number 91-0061. Details here : http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/history/aircraft/D_Models/91-00261/91-00261.html

As you can see, the Septics are sneaky with Chinooks, and have completely rebuilt and re-serialed many of them. 91-0061 started life as CH-47A serial 61-02409. The first two digits in the USAF/USAr serial system denote the year that the funds were allocated to buy the aircraft, so 61-02409 was 'paid for' in US fiscal year 1961, and will have first flown in either 1961 or 62.  Then it was "Triggers new Broom"-ed into CH-47D serial 91-0061 during 1991, and re-entered service as such in 1992.  The first RAF Chinook ZA670 arrived in 1980 as an HC1, and is still in service AFAIK as an HC4. 

As for Huey's - pass. Spotters refer to them as 'Chocolate Mice", and there are (mainly empty!) pages and pages of them in our serlal logging books. They're still being made for the US Marine corps, and many of the surplus early ones live on with civil organisations - there are a few in the UK.

[Lizzie Zoom]

What a great trip!

I would love to fly in one of those, and have done since seeing them on the TV in news reports on the Vietnam War.  The other Nam helicopter that I wanted to fly in was of course the Bell UH-1 Iroquois or Huey.  I once knew a retired USAF pilot that flew them in that war, but regretfully for me he would never want to talk about it as he was disgusted and ashamed by what he saw in the name of his country.

I wonder what the oldest flying Chinook is, and indeed the Huey?

What stories they could tell!

The oldest flyable Wokka is believed to be serial number 91-0061. Details here : http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/history/aircraft/D_Models/91-00261/91-00261.html

As you can see, the Septics are sneaky with Chinooks, and have completely rebuilt and re-serialed many of them. 91-0061 started life as CH-47A serial 61-02409. The first two digits in the USAF/USAr serial system denote the year that the funds were allocated to buy the aircraft, so 61-02409 was 'paid for' in US fiscal year 1961, and will have first flown in either 1961 or 62.  Then it was "Triggers new Broom"-ed into CH-47D serial 91-0061 during 1991, and re-entered service as such in 1992.  The first RAF Chinook ZA670 arrived in 1980 as an HC1, and is still in service AFAIK as an HC4. 

As for Huey's - pass. Spotters refer to them as 'Chocolate Mice", and there are (mainly empty!) pages and pages of them in our serlal logging books. They're still being made for the US Marine corps, and many of the surplus early ones live on with civil organisations - there are a few in the UK.

Thanks for that LC0112G, I thought you would be the one to know!

56.5 years airframe age is quite something, especially when you think of the loads they would have lifted.

I know there are a number of Spitfires that claim to be "the oldest" and "oldest still flying", but two come to mind: MK1  P7350 is apparently the oldest airworthy Spitfire, and is the only survivor of the Battle of Britain still flying, coming into service in August 1940, the 14th of 11,989 manufactured at te Castle Bromwich 'shadow' factory. So it's airframe is 79 years old in August.  I note though that another Spitfire, MK1 P9374, built in 1938, and downed over France in May 1940, after recovery from the mud of Calais and rebuilt, taking to the sky again 71 years later, is claimed to be the oldest flying example. So an 81 year air frame.

With these claims of "oldest", I reckon flying hours should be taken into account, so P7350 must be a considered the supreme example??

It begs the question, and I know there are First World War examples of aircraft still flying, how long can any airframe still be airworthy for?

[LC0112G]

Thanks for that LC0112G, I thought you would be the one to know!

56.5 years airframe age is quite something, especially when you think of the loads they would have lifted.

I know there are a number of Spitfires that claim to be "the oldest" and "oldest still flying", but two come to mind: MK1  P7350 is apparently the oldest airworthy Spitfire, and is the only survivor of the Battle of Britain still flying, coming into service in August 1940, the 14th of 11,989 manufactured at te Castle Bromwich 'shadow' factory. So it's airframe is 79 years old in August.  I note though that another Spitfire, MK1 P9374, built in 1938, and downed over France in May 1940, after recovery from the mud of Calais and rebuilt, taking to the sky again 71 years later, is claimed to be the oldest flying example. So an 81 year air frame.

With these claims of "oldest", I reckon flying hours should be taken into account, so P7350 must be a considered the supreme example??

It begs the question, and I know there are First World War examples of aircraft still flying, how long can any airframe still be airworthy for?

If you replace parts as/when they reach their manufacturers service lifetime, then you can keep an aircraft flying almost indefinatley. Historic aircraft like Spitfires are contentious. It's a bit like Ford Escorts and Capris - as long as you've got the log book (serial number tag for aircraft) you can basically replace the whole machine with new parts and retain it's identity. I'm willing to bet there ain't much of the original P9374 (as it left Cattle Bromwich) in the current assembly of iron, aluminium and wood bearing that identity.   

Spitfires are so valuable now that many which used to be "Gate Guards" at RAF bases were removed and replaced by plastic replicas. Some were then sold and 'restored' to flying status but again, I doubt there is much of the original airframe or mechanicals left after the restoration. They are effectively new build aircraft.

[Kevin Wood]

It begs the question, and I know there are First World War examples of aircraft still flying, how long can any airframe still be airworthy for?

Depends on the construction method and budget available. Early aircraft that are just riveted metal panels or doped fabric stretched over a metal frame can be repaired and/or rebuilt as many times as you like if financially viable.

More modern aircraft can be much more complex, and for many the fatigue life of the airframe is not negotiable. In any case, these types would require manufacturer type support for any repairs and/or life extensions to be certified, whereas "simple" aircraft just require skilled workshops and money, so we will see spitfires flying long after most more recent warbirds have been grounded.

Wood and fabric aircraft can have pretty good longevity if stored in favourable conditions but a few vintage glider types have been blighted with types of glue that haven't stood the test of time, for example.

Fibreglass aircraft are pretty good with plenty of the late - 60s and early 70's examples of glass gliders still flying. I know some of the older 2 seaters in our club fleet, both wooden and glass, have clocked up 50 years and approaching 20,000 hours flying. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

It begs the question, and I know there are First World War examples of aircraft still flying, how long can any airframe still be airworthy for?

Depends on the construction method and budget available. Early aircraft that are just riveted metal panels or doped fabric stretched over a metal frame can be repaired and/or rebuilt as many times as you like if financially viable.

More modern aircraft can be much more complex, and for many the fatigue life of the airframe is not negotiable. In any case, these types would require manufacturer type support for any repairs and/or life extensions to be certified, whereas "simple" aircraft just require skilled workshops and money, so we will see spitfires flying long after most more recent warbirds have been grounded.

Wood and fabric aircraft can have pretty good longevity if stored in favourable conditions but a few vintage glider types have been blighted with types of glue that haven't stood the test of time, for example.

Fibreglass aircraft are pretty good with plenty of the late - 60s and early 70's examples of glass gliders still flying. I know some of the older 2 seaters in our club fleet, both wooden and glass, have clocked up 50 years and approaching 20,000 hours flying.

Thanks Kevin

And, thinking about it further, engines of modern aircraft come into the equation.  The lovely Vulcan bomber being an example

[Kevin Wood]

Thanks Kevin

And, thinking about it further, engines of modern aircraft come into the equation.  The lovely Vulcan bomber being an example

Yes, very true. A piston engine can be rebuilt, new parts made and so on using standard workshop tools and techniques, no matter how big. Turbine engines are a totally different poposition.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Thanks Kevin

And, thinking about it further, engines of modern aircraft come into the equation.  The lovely Vulcan bomber being an example

Yes, very true. A piston engine can be rebuilt, new parts made and so on using standard workshop tools and techniques, no matter how big. Turbine engines are a totally different poposition.

With the Vulcan and Concorde both now grounded we, nor our grandchildren, will never hear that sound that was so impressive, especially when a flight of the former scrambled!

On the floor they will never be the same, as a Spitfire and a Chinook not flying would be; it is the sound and sight that makes then so special

[Lizzie Zoom]

All my talk of the sounds of aircraft makes me want to hear more:

so Chinook first  -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1EYPy67qOU

then Vulcan -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_X5QYBSto

I just wish I could find film that fully shows a multi-Vulcan scramble back in the late 1950's / 60's, which I know exists and reminds me of the Farnborough Air Show 1958 when I first saw one take off, plus the other V bombers, and then in 1964 when I looked from the RAF control tower with dad and saw one land under emergency conditions with a bomb bay problem that, I was told, had a hydrogen bomb on board!!

Oh, what memories

Just wish I could have taken a ride in one as lucky Kevin did with the Chinook, but when I was a child, they were of course strictly out of bounds even for my senior NCO RN dad!

[Doctor Gollum]

The Americans have form for rebuilding planes in the name of development.

Several variations of the 707/720 have been rebuilt a few times over the years.

[Lizzie Zoom]

The Americans have form for rebuilding planes in the name of development.

Several variations of the 707/720 have been rebuilt a few times over the years.

And Britain made the Nimrod out of the Comet

[Gaffers]

The Americans have form for rebuilding planes in the name of development.

Several variations of the 707/720 have been rebuilt a few times over the years.

And Britain made the Nimrod out of the Comet

Is that proof that you can't polish a turd?

[Doctor Gollum]

The Americans have form for rebuilding planes in the name of development.

Several variations of the 707/720 have been rebuilt a few times over the years.

And Britain made the Nimrod out of the Comet

Is that proof that you can't polish a turd?

Only we could take an obselete-before-its-second-flight design, take three goes at redesigning it before finally scrapping the whole project and buying airliners that were readily available when the initial project started and call it ingenuity

[Lizzie Zoom]

The Americans have form for rebuilding planes in the name of development.

Several variations of the 707/720 have been rebuilt a few times over the years.

And Britain made the Nimrod out of the Comet

Is that proof that you can't polish a turd?

Only we could take an obselete-before-its-second-flight design, take three goes at redesigning it before finally scrapping the whole project and buying airliners that were readily available when the initial project started and call it ingenuity

That's the British Government, and all our governments, certainly since 1945 with the Defence Budget always being wasted by a fair percentage!!

[Raeturbo]

Not absolutely related to the thread but I think it’s worth a look if you’ve not seen it before and I’m sure you’ll know what they are


https://youtu.be/Gv9iIpeU4TE

[Kevin Wood]

Not absolutely related to the thread but I think it’s worth a look if you’ve not seen it before and I’m sure you’ll know what they are


https://youtu.be/Gv9iIpeU4TE

In the Q and A session after we asked what level they typically transit cross country.

"Don't worry. MUCH lower than you guys"
"Oh, how low's that?"
"It's good to practice low level flying whenever we can get the opportunity"
"Got a number?"
"Well under 500 feet"
"<Smirk>"
"Well, you would too<smirk>"
 

[Raeturbo]

Ha ha, as they say, them were the days

[aaronjb]

Not absolutely related to the thread but I think it’s worth a look if you’ve not seen it before and I’m sure you’ll know what they are


https://youtu.be/Gv9iIpeU4TE

Doing that speed at all of about 6' off the deck must have been such a rush 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Not absolutely related to the thread but I think it’s worth a look if you’ve not seen it before and I’m sure you’ll know what they are


https://youtu.be/Gv9iIpeU4TE

Doing that speed at all of about 6' off the deck must have been such a rush 

Low level ground attack and general flying was the mark of some of the RAF crack squadrons.  Is that still the case?

Great to witness!!

[Rods2]

Not absolutely related to the thread but I think it’s worth a look if you’ve not seen it before and I’m sure you’ll know what they are


https://youtu.be/Gv9iIpeU4TE

Doing that speed at all of about 6' off the deck must have been such a rush 

Low level ground attack and general flying was the mark of some of the RAF crack squadrons.  Is that still the case?

Great to witness!!

1991 Gulf War showed the vulnerability of flying low, especially using JP233 runway denial munitions, ask John Nichols. Tornado with its terrain following was optimized for this role where it could terrain follow at 50', but it was very vulnerable to small arms ground fire.

The US approach with their much bigger air force could fly above small arms ground fire at medium level & suppress SAMs and radars, through a combination of ECM and anti-radiation missiles like the AGM-88 HARM. The Gulf War vindicated the US approach.

5th generation stealth aircraft are designed to operate in modern A2D hostile environments, how well they will work in S400 defended areas remains to be seen with their range of radars frequencies & IR detection systems. Stealth technology has in the past concentrated on long range radar systems, where the current technology is at will obviously be classified.

The start of the 1991 air war was with AH64 Apaches taking out Iraqi air defence radars to create an air corridor with this article providing the best description to date I've seen http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1991/October%201991/1091apache.aspx on the operation, which also illustrates the high standards to which Western forces train & operate at, which is a major asset for NATO.

About 15 years a oo I had the opportunity to fly a Chinook simulator at RAF Benson for about 10 minutes. The avionic flight control systems made it very easy as after takeoff you could set your altitude, pitch the nose forward to gain speed without losing height. Very different from flying a basic helicopter with their 3-axis cross coupling. I'm sure TB has experienced this with his models and just to takeoff and hover and land again is a major achievement.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Ok, thanks

[LC0112G]

As Rods alludes to, the modern RAF is not setup to go low level in fast jets. Neither Typhoon nor F-35 are routinely used at low level, and low level training flights have been banned in "The Loop" for almost 6 months now. It was actually stopped before Tornado was finally retired, alledgedly because top brass didn't want any unneccessery accidents before the type finally bowed out.

All the modern ground attack munitions (Paveway, Brimstone etc) are launced/dropped from medium altitude (10-20K feet). There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all - none have been photographed low level in the usual spots (although there are only 3 in the country at the moment!) 

[DrAndyB]

Nice.  Gotta love a Chinook   

[Lizzie Zoom]

As Rods alludes to, the modern RAF is not setup to go low level in fast jets. Neither Typhoon nor F-35 are routinely used at low level, and low level training flights have been banned in "The Loop" for almost 6 months now. It was actually stopped before Tornado was finally retired, alledgedly because top brass didn't want any unneccessery accidents before the type finally bowed out.

All the modern ground attack munitions (Paveway, Brimstone etc) are launced/dropped from medium altitude (10-20K feet). There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all - none have been photographed low level in the usual spots (although there are only 3 in the country at the moment!)

I suppose with the advent of ever more sophisticated air to ground missiles, let alone drones, technology has moved on a bit since 617 Squadron did their run to the dams, and likewise the Mosquito's famed low level attacks are now allotted fully to history!

[TheBoy]

There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all

I think getting one to fly should be the first challenge

[Kevin Wood]

There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all

I think getting one to fly should be the first challenge

They flew here from the US, IIRC.

.. Unless that refuelling probe was actually a cunningly disguised aerotow rope.

[Doctor Gollum]

There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all

I think getting one to fly should be the first challenge

They flew here from the US, IIRC.

.. Unless that refuelling probe was actually a cunningly disguised aerotow rope.

I'm not sure that folding the wings and stuffing it into the back of a C17 counts as flying

[Kevin Wood]

There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all

I think getting one to fly should be the first challenge

They flew here from the US, IIRC.

.. Unless that refuelling probe was actually a cunningly disguised aerotow rope.

I'm not sure that folding the wings and stuffing it into the back of a C17 counts as flying

It dosn't, but my recollection is that the first 3 flew the journey under their own power.

[LC0112G]

There are currently no plans to fly F-35 at low level at all

I think getting one to fly should be the first challenge

They flew here from the US, IIRC.

.. Unless that refuelling probe was actually a cunningly disguised aerotow rope.

I'm not sure that folding the wings and stuffing it into the back of a C17 counts as flying

9 have arrived in the UK. 4 in June last year, and another 5 last August. All 9 flew under their own power non-stop from MCAS Beaufort in South Carolina, obviously escorted and refuelled en-route by RAF (Voyager) Tankers. All 9 are currently operated by 617 Sqn. There are rumours of another 5 coming across in the next month or two to start the formation of the second squadron (201 Sqn). The RAF also have another 3 or 4 permenetly stationed in the USA for test and development work. It's uncertain if these 3/4 will ever be delivered to the UK since they are early development aircraft, and of a different standard to the ones delivered.

The reason only 3 were in the UK last week was that 617 Sqn had deployed to Cyprus with 6 jets in March, and these have been used in Op Schader missions over Syria, and joint exercises with US and Israeli F-35's. 4 of the jets returned to the UK today, whilst the other 2 have stopped off in Italy for excercises with Italian F35A's and Typhoons. So as of today there are 7 jets at RAF Marham.

If you want to see one (or hopefully more), then they are due to do flypasts at both Yeovilton Air Day (Sat 13th July) and RAF Fairford the following weekend (Fri 19th - Sun 21st). As of yet, I don't think any have landed in the UK away from RAF Marham, though maybe now they're back from Cyprus they'll start appearing a bit more often.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I heard aircraft overhead on Sunday afternoon and looked up to see the Red Arrows fly past in two V formations, heading east along the coast. 

I assumed that they'd come from Exeter Airport which I believe they use as a base when in the South West and were heading to do a show somewhere. Bournemouth maybe? 

[Kevin Wood]

I heard aircraft overhead on Sunday afternoon and looked up to see the Red Arrows fly past in two V formations, heading east along the coast. 

I assumed that they'd come from Exeter Airport which I believe they use as a base when in the South West and were heading to do a show somewhere. Bournemouth maybe? 

Yes, I was gliding and I remember a NOTAM. Can't remember where they were heading...

[Sir Tigger KC]

I heard aircraft overhead on Sunday afternoon and looked up to see the Red Arrows fly past in two V formations, heading east along the coast. 

I assumed that they'd come from Exeter Airport which I believe they use as a base when in the South West and were heading to do a show somewhere. Bournemouth maybe? 

Yes, I was gliding and I remember a NOTAM. Can't remember where they were heading...

Just checked and they did a display down at Plymouth for Armed Forces Day on Saturday and Sunday did another Armed Forces Day display at Folkestone. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

I heard aircraft overhead on Sunday afternoon and looked up to see the Red Arrows fly past in two V formations, heading east along the coast. 

I assumed that they'd come from Exeter Airport which I believe they use as a base when in the South West and were heading to do a show somewhere. Bournemouth maybe? 

Yes, I was gliding and I remember a NOTAM. Can't remember where they were heading...

Just checked and they did a display down at Plymouth for Armed Forces Day on Saturday and Sunday did another Armed Forces Day display at Folkestone. 

Ah, I saw some display aircraft come across our town, obviously from Folkestone, in addition to the usual air traffic of merlin engined WW2 fighters that fly regularly over here.  But no sign of those F35's!!

[Doctor Gollum]

Well, they are stealth

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well, they are stealth

Now that is funny

[LC0112G]

I heard aircraft overhead on Sunday afternoon and looked up to see the Red Arrows fly past in two V formations, heading east along the coast. 

I assumed that they'd come from Exeter Airport which I believe they use as a base when in the South West and were heading to do a show somewhere. Bournemouth maybe? 

Yes, I was gliding and I remember a NOTAM. Can't remember where they were heading...

Just checked and they did a display down at Plymouth for Armed Forces Day on Saturday and Sunday did another Armed Forces Day display at Folkestone. 

Ah, I saw some display aircraft come across our town, obviously from Folkestone, in addition to the usual air traffic of merlin engined WW2 fighters that fly regularly over here.  But no sign of those F35's!!

The last 2 of the 6 deployed to Cyprus/Italy are rumored to be due back later today, and will probably come in over Brighton way, accompanied by an RAF tanker - callsign RRR9105 - which will probably show up on the civvy radar tracking sites. So if you're any good at 'dot spotting' little grey jets at 30K feet plus....

[Lizzie Zoom]

I heard aircraft overhead on Sunday afternoon and looked up to see the Red Arrows fly past in two V formations, heading east along the coast. 

I assumed that they'd come from Exeter Airport which I believe they use as a base when in the South West and were heading to do a show somewhere. Bournemouth maybe? 

Yes, I was gliding and I remember a NOTAM. Can't remember where they were heading...

Just checked and they did a display down at Plymouth for Armed Forces Day on Saturday and Sunday did another Armed Forces Day display at Folkestone. 

Ah, I saw some display aircraft come across our town, obviously from Folkestone, in addition to the usual air traffic of merlin engined WW2 fighters that fly regularly over here.  But no sign of those F35's!!

The last 2 of the 6 deployed to Cyprus/Italy are rumored to be due back later today, and will probably come in over Brighton way, accompanied by an RAF tanker - callsign RRR9105 - which will probably show up on the civvy radar tracking sites. So if you're any good at 'dot spotting' little grey jets at 30K feet plus....

Thanks, but I live some distance from Brighton way; a pity!

[Doctor Gollum]

Currently on finals to Brize, so safe to assume that the F35s landed already at Marham