Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 18 October 2018, 12:52:47
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Hi guys.
I went on a boys trip paint balling and I drove the passion wagon (the omega). Other than the wheel balancing on the front (😤) the omega is stable in the dry at speed. However in the rain it felt really unstable. I am a bit of a fanny in those conditions i will concede but I dropped down to 50-55 in the slow lane and it was ok. Then there were Audi’s and BMWs bombing past at warp speed.
What’s your experience of this in the omega? Can u bomb it when it’s pouring down?
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Yes, but suspension, tyres and geometry all need to be spot on Imho
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It depends on tyres ..... ;)
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It depends on tyres ..... ;)
Also on gonads. And brains.
Without being there at the time, we can't really say if Webby is a bit of a wuss, or the BMW/Audi drivers are retards living on the edge of aquaplaning into a ditch.. could be either, because I've seen plenty of both when driving in the rain! ;D
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Cheers boys.
I suspect the geometry setup is out of WIM spec cos I did it two years ago. I’m doing that again very soon. However I do have shit tyres (cheap BCTs). The only thing going for them is that they’re so hard they’ve been on for 3.5 years and still have 6mm tread 🤔🤔🤔
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And I will add it was torrential lol
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As I've stated in previous posts, I do not hang around on motorways. But even I slow right down in heavy rain, around 65 is the speed I feel comfortable with. I firmly believe that most modern, high end cars are perfectly safe at high speeds in the rain on the motorway, but it is the lack of skill and judgement of the drivers that is a concern.
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As I've stated in previous posts, I do not hang around on motorways. But even I slow right down in heavy rain, around 65 is the speed I feel comfortable with. I firmly believe that most modern, high end cars are perfectly safe at high speeds in the rain on the motorway, but it is the lack of skill and judgement of the drivers that is a concern.
Some people believe because we have ABS and ESP/DSC on modern cars, that it is impossible to lose grip.
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Cheers boys.
I suspect the geometry setup is out of WIM spec cos I did it two years ago. I’m doing that again very soon. However I do have shit tyres (cheap BCTs). The only thing going for them is that they’re so hard they’ve been on for 3.5 years and still have 6mm tread 🤔🤔🤔
There is your issue. You pay your money and make your choice. ;)
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Couldn’t agree more stemo. These guys driving as if it’s not raining to me is mental. But on the other side of that I probably do need a full geo set up and decent tyres.
On the subject of alignment I remember marksDTM mentioned the use of an airbag to help with setting front camber (as it is a pain in the arse with me holding a bar whilst mate tightens strut bolts). Anyone ever used one and if so was it super helpful?
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WIM'd 3.2 here with Kumho's stays quite planted in the wet, tyres getting a bit low but all have even wear. 8)
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It's worth remembering the aquaplaning formula; 9 x √P (P= tyre pressure), so for 36PSI your aquaplaning speed ~
54mph. :y
This will vary from tyre to tyre, but is a useful rough guide. :y
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It's worth remembering the aquaplaning formula; 9 x √P (P= tyre pressure), so for 36PSI your aquaplaning speed ~
54mph. :y
Yes, but that doesn't take into account the tread pattern or depth or, indeed, the circumference of the tyre
Cheat! You added that afterwards to make me think I was going daft ;D
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Mine stays well planted at motorway speed ;)in rain or dry but have tended to notice in really heavy downpours the front seems to go a little light almost like aqua-planning but only when getting a shift on.
Drop down abit and its back to stable again.
Running on Continentals with a good 6mm on all 4 and alignment spot on :y
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Of course, no one has mentioned the old RWD v FWD situation. Give me FWD anytime in wet conditions on the motorway.
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So as said I’m sure I’m due a geo set up which I’ll take care of.
Is there an OOF approved budget tyre? Or do the words budget and tyre not go together lol 👍👍👍
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Accelera if you must... Winter tyres are cheaper than standard at about £60 a corner from Camskill :y
Otherwise you should probably dig a bit deeper and buy some real tyres... Dunlop Blueresponse seem to work. ;)
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Of course, no one has mentioned the old RWD v FWD situation. Give me FWD anytime in wet conditions on the motorway.
So that you definitely die as you lose traction AND steering simultaneously ::)
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Of course, no one has mentioned the old RWD v FWD situation. Give me FWD anytime in wet conditions on the motorway.
So that you definitely die as you lose traction AND steering simultaneously ::)
I think that's a load of old fanny. ::) Driven wheels are going to clear more water than wheels that are being pushed along any day of the week. Modern cars with stability control and the like are much less likely to lose control than older vehicles. With the correct tyres and fwd, aquaplaning really shouldn't happen.
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Of course, no one has mentioned the old RWD v FWD situation. Give me FWD anytime in wet conditions on the motorway.
So that you definitely die as you lose traction AND steering simultaneously ::)
Makes sod all difference if the tyre is the cause.
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Modern auto, wwd and turbo is the trifecta of total lack of control in slippery stuff...
Vectra C Estate cdti auto 0
Omega 3.2 manual 1
Never had a problem with the Omega in crap conditions.
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Its poor quality tyres that cause acceptable dry weather grip but woeful wet weather. "Black and round" to get an MOT simply isn't good enough for our wet climate.
All the other suggestions, worth doing mind, would impact dry handling as well.
For the record, TBE is ultra stable in heavy rain, but not to the complete, utter, planted level of the Silver Bullet... ...something I could never understand, and have spent much time and energy (well, chrisgixer's energy ::)) in trying to get TBE the same.
My idea of stable/planted is in a different league to tunnie's idea of planted on those Kumhos. Although his choice of tyre is quite acceptable for his driving style - its a tyre that gives pretty reasonable wet/dry grip, but no feedback, which is ideal for him... ...and dare I say you Webby.
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Of course, no one has mentioned the old RWD v FWD situation. Give me FWD anytime in wet conditions on the motorway.
So that you definitely die as you lose traction AND steering simultaneously ::)
Makes sod all difference if the tyre is the cause.
Lego tyres aren't a good idea on a road vehicle right enough ;)
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Is there an OOF approved budget tyre?
Michelin PS4. About £100 per tyre (fitted price - be cheaper for you if your place can fit) in Elite sizes. Downside, they give a bit of roadnoise.
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Is there an OOF approved budget tyre?
Michelin PS4. About £100 per tyre (fitted price - be cheaper for you if your place can fit) in Elite sizes. Downside, they give a bit of roadnoise.
Bit too pricey for me. I’ll try some Toyos and I’ll fit them. They were £50 each last time I checked (225/55/16)
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It's worth remembering the aquaplaning formula; 9 x √P (P= tyre pressure), so for 36PSI your aquaplaning speed ~
54mph. :y
This will vary from tyre to tyre, but is a useful rough guide. :y
Does depth of water have any bearing on that equation? :-[
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It's worth remembering the aquaplaning formula; 9 x √P (P= tyre pressure), so for 36PSI your aquaplaning speed ~
54mph. :y
This will vary from tyre to tyre, but is a useful rough guide. :y
Does depth of water have any bearing on that equation? :-[
Depth of water vs depth/type of tread will clearly make a difference. If the tyre is able to disperse the water such that it is in firm contact with concrete/tarmac W.H.Y., it will not aquaplane so easily.
Dragslicks on 1" of water..... :-X
It is just a useful guide, such that if, for example, you know your tyres are down to minimums, you may expect to aquaplane at the appropriate speed in very heavy rain. HTH
It was not uncommon with A/C tyres, after landing in heavy rain, to discover the occasional patch of 'boiled' rubber on the tread. IIRC the Tristar tyre pressures were about 180psi giving an aquaplaning speed of 120 mph, while landing speed was about 140mph.:y
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Never had a problem when I had my 2.6 but never skimped on tyres always good quality ones.
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Is there an OOF approved budget tyre?
Michelin PS4. About £100 per tyre (fitted price - be cheaper for you if your place can fit) in Elite sizes. Downside, they give a bit of roadnoise.
Bit too pricey for me. I’ll try some Toyos and I’ll fit them. They were £50 each last time I checked (225/55/16)
;D ;D ;D ;D You'd not want to buy tyres for my Merc then ..... ;D ;D ;D
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In the wet is when a RWD becomes worth it, lots of fun ::)
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In the wet is when a RWD becomes worth it, lots of fun ::)
I prefer the BMW over the Skoda in the wet, too. Although I think the proper weapon might be a Subarahhh that might be a sore point still :-X ;)
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In the wet is when a RWD becomes worth it, lots of fun ::)
I prefer the BMW over the Skoda in the wet, too. Although I think the proper weapon might be a Subarahhh that might be a sore point still :-X ;)
You cut deep.....
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In the wet is when a RWD becomes worth it, lots of fun ::)
I prefer the BMW over the Skoda in the wet, too. Although I think the proper weapon might be a Subarahhh that might be a sore point still :-X ;)
You cut deep.....
:-X
I'm surrounded by the things (Legacies) - there's one across the road, a mate has two (and another mate has an Impreza). All petrol H6's beside the Impreza (and one LPG), though!
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In the wet is when a RWD becomes worth it, lots of fun ::)
I prefer the BMW over the Skoda in the wet, too. Although I think the proper weapon might be a Subarahhh that might be a sore point still :-X ;)
You cut deep.....
:-X
I'm surrounded by the things (Legacies) - there's one across the road, a mate has two (and another mate has an Impreza). All petrol H6's beside the Impreza (and one LPG), though!
I've always wondered what an LPG'd H6 would be like.
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Really pretty good, actually. IIRC it's a Prins system with Flashlube, it might be a tad undersized though as it drops to petrol if you're at WOT and above 4k RPM.. rest of the time it's entirely unobtrusive :y
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Really pretty good, actually. IIRC it's a Prins system with Flashlube, it might be a tad undersized though as it drops to petrol if you're at WOT and above 4k RPM.. rest of the time it's entirely unobtrusive :y
That's often the safest way to go with high aspiration LPG setups as you don't often (!) spend much time at WOT in then anyway. That's what I was thinking for the XJR lpg setup instead of finding space for 2 vaporisors in a crossover configuration to deal with the demand of the SC at WOT.
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Part of me is tempted to have the Legacy off him (assuming it doesn't go to the other mate who is interested and/or he doesn't keep it) now that he's bought an S8 to waft about in, instead, and go back to bangernomics instead of the Skoda - mostly because the LPG makes it an attractive proposition, and it's worth peanuts.
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If you can do most of the work yourself it makes financial sense, otherwise Scoobie stealer rates can smart.
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Really pretty good, actually. IIRC it's a Prins system with Flashlube, it might be a tad undersized though as it drops to petrol if you're at WOT and above 4k RPM.. rest of the time it's entirely unobtrusive :y
That's often the safest way to go with high aspiration LPG setups as you don't often (!) spend much time at WOT in then anyway. That's what I was thinking for the XJR lpg setup instead of finding space for 2 vaporisors in a crossover configuration to deal with the demand of the SC at WOT.
Any space behind the front wheels and wing :-\
Mercedes W140 has enough space (just) for a double vap on the nearside, OK it's not exactly next to the inlet manifold but it is convenient for the engine/cabin coolant plumbing and fuel plumbing...
And on the proper engines, there's not much space under the bonnet ::)
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With the XJR6 there is loads of space under the bonnet, it's just that most of it is by the exhaust manifolds. There is space for one by the throttle cable interface but to put in two you would have to do some re-engineering.
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What about below the inlet manifold?
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Your omega will never be stable in the rain at any speed on those tyres.
You’re unlikely to sort out your balancing until you renew them for quality items either
The end :y
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What about below the inlet manifold?
That's where the inlet pipes for the SC sit.
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Plan B then ::)
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Not bumping this thread but I popped in work today to fix some shit on mother-in-laws motor and got it done surprisingly quick so decided to put the omega on the alignment machine.
So front camber was...
NSF -1.37 OSF -1.44
Front toe...
NSF -0.36 OSF +0.31
So I adjusted the toe to +0.04 each side. However I know the camber should be 1.10. So is my camber ok or do I really need to adjust it? I only ask cos I found adjusting the camber was a bit of a ball ache to be honest. 👍
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Old Chinese proverb say:
Lazy Bear buys cheap tyres more often... Busy Bear buys better tyres less often because the geometry is correct ::)
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Old Chinese proverb say:
Lazy Bear buys cheap tyres more often... Busy Bear buys better tyres less often because the geometry is correct ::)
Hahahaha you really are a prize bell 🔔😂😂😂😂😂
I will get decent tyres but do I really need to bring that camber in? I take it the answer is yes but would love a straight yes or no 😂😂😂
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Yes or you will do the inside edges before you can get the tyres balanced ;)
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Ok thanks mate 👍 it is a ball ache though 😬😬😬
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If I can do it on the drive, you should be able to do it on a lift ;)
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Yeah but I’m a bit lazy 😂😂😂
My current tyres never wore on the edges. But I suspect that’s due to their hardness. They are like stone!!! 😂😂😂
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Ok thanks mate 👍 it is a ball ache though 😬😬😬
Really??? How are you doing it?
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Ok thanks mate 👍 it is a ball ache though 😬😬😬
Really??? How are you doing it?
Last time I did it i loosened strut bolts. I then got my boss to lever the wheel against any place he could find purchase. I then tightened them up. But because we do alignments on the MOT ramp we kept bumping into each other and it was just awkward. I’m probably exaggerating but I just remember it being tricky
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I do them in the street, with the front wheels sat on another pair of wheels(4.5" wide Austin 1300 ones). That gives me just enough room to lie under the car while a helper adjusts the camber with a jack handle in the top of the wheel. Measurement is done with a bevel gauge on my wheel adapter. A couple of minutes per side. I do this after checking that the tracking is as straight as possible to ensure that when the car is properly aligned the camber shouldn't need adjusting.
It really isn't difficult :y
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Thanks Nick.
Yeah of course it’ll be a lot easier if you are under it and assistant is doing the levering from the outside. Where exactly does he put the jack handle?
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Yes, the camber needs adjusting. Before you put on my el-cheapo shite tyres that you love. And it will need rechecking again when you fit the new tyres, and adjusting again if necessary.
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Yes, the camber needs adjusting. Before you put on my el-cheapo shite tyres that you love. And it will need rechecking again when you fit the new tyres, and adjusting again if necessary.
Cheers TB. Nah I ain’t doing it twice. I’ll put some nice new tyres on then adjust it straight away.
Seen some reasonably priced Hankooks.... any reviews?
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Yes, the camber needs adjusting. Before you put on my el-cheapo shite tyres that you love. And it will need rechecking again when you fit the new tyres, and adjusting again if necessary.
Cheers TB. Nah I ain’t doing it twice. I’ll put some nice new tyres on then adjust it straight away.
Seen some reasonably priced Hankooks.... any reviews?
Do it, let it settle, then measure again when fitting new. Its not hard (even with a spirit level and a jack) or time consuming, so not sure why you think overwise?
Hankook - a budget tyre and a (top end) budget price. Therefore its shit. Its use is black and round and will pass an MOT.
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Toyos?
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Try theses...
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m62b0s293p109518/Dunlop_Tyres_Car_Dunlop_BlueResponse_SP_Sport_Dunlop_Blue_Response_-_225_55_R16_95V_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_B_Wet_Grip%3A_A_NoiseClass%3A_1_Noise%3A_68dB
:y
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Cheers DG. Are these official oof approved :y
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Have them on the Trolley and on previous cars. Perform well enough rain or shine :y
The other option I could recommend is for Accelera Winters, but the Dunlops will certainly see you right :y
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Just ordered two of these for fitting tomorrow ... :)
https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-4/235-45-17-97-y-xl-pilot-sport-4
Best price I could find, beats the local places by around £10-£14 per tyre, but is fitted locally at a place who wanted £114 for each one.... so how does that work ??
:-\ :-\
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Just ordered two of these for fitting tomorrow ... :)
https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-4/235-45-17-97-y-xl-pilot-sport-4
Best price I could find, beats the local places by around £10-£14 per tyre, but is fitted locally at a place who wanted £114 for each one.... so how does that work ??
:-\ :-\
Asda Tyres aka Walmart have much better buying clout than Joe Local...
Local garages presumably sign up for quick easy work and then customer contact to enable upselling of their broader services ;)
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All fitted and a further £20 off by way of a pre-paid visa card direct from michelin ... so £187 for 2 tyres fully fitted ... :)
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Cheers DG. Are these official oof approved :y
Untested on the Omega AFAIK...
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Have them on the Trolley and on previous cars. Perform well enough rain or shine :y
Which is a very different car.
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Just ordered two of these for fitting tomorrow ... :)
https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-4/235-45-17-97-y-xl-pilot-sport-4
Best price I could find, beats the local places by around £10-£14 per tyre, but is fitted locally at a place who wanted £114 for each one.... so how does that work ??
:-\ :-\
You wont be disappointed by performance, I'm sure.
My local chap does seem to be able to undercut everywhere, but the flipside is if the young lad does it, I'll break my bar retorqueing them.
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Cheers DG. Are these official oof approved :y
Untested on the Omega AFAIK...
True, but I have enough confidence in their abilities that had my Desmond been a spring purchase I would have fitted them. :y it wasn't so got Accelera winters instead, which suited the 5 series that it replaced. ;)
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Anyone experienced Toyos on the Omega? Wifeys Hyundai drives lovely on them but appreciate the omega is a different beast 👍
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Just ordered two of these for fitting tomorrow ... :)
https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-4/235-45-17-97-y-xl-pilot-sport-4
Best price I could find, beats the local places by around £10-£14 per tyre, but is fitted locally at a place who wanted £114 for each one.... so how does that work ??
:-\ :-\
You wont be disappointed by performance, I'm sure.
My local chap does seem to be able to undercut everywhere, but the flipside is if the young lad does it, I'll break my bar retorqueing them.
Well used to these now .. been using them since I could no longer get eagle F1's ... they were your recommendation some while back .. 14000 miles for the rears, fronts still have a reasonable amount of life left in them.
:)
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Oh and what about the aforementioned Kumhos that tunnie mentions...
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Oh and finally Rainsports. Lol
So reviews please if known on Toyos, Kumhos and uni royal rainsports 😄😄😄
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Rainsport 3 used on the daily, decent tyre Imho (worked well in the 2 months of snow in Scotland last winter when I was working there even though it is a rain tyre!) but not an out and out sports orientated tyre.
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Anything that costs more than £50 will do you, Webby.
That's for a tyre not the whole car. ;D
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Lol!
All I want is a decent all conditions tyre with a sensible price. I don’t drive like a moron. I just want something that’ll feel very stable in the wet. And looking in to reviews it’s between tunnies Kumhos and the rainsports...
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Rainsport 3 used on the daily, .....
I have them on my Smart Roadster. They stick to the road like the proverbial to a blanket whether it's dry or piddling down. :y :y
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So there you go, Webby, fit them and forget them.
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Well as wet weather stability is what I’m after that’s sorted then 👍👍👍👍👍
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Are you expecting rain? ;D
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Kumho KU 39's on the 3.2, they do me fine. :y
Although not as cheap as they used to be when I had 31's (?) on 2.2, they are more 'premium prices' now :-\
3.2's rears won't last that much longer, thinking Primacy 3's next as not much more, they are on the bus and I like them.
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The last tyres I had on my Omega were Goldway G2000's and they were fine! :y
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Couldn't even begin to tell you what's on mine,they're black,they're round and I ain't visited the scenery yet :D Paid iirc something just under £50 a tyre for my 17's 8)
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.... Paid iirc something just under £50 a tyre for my 17's 8)
Even the tiny 15" tyres on the Roadster were £60 a pop ..... ;)
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15"s for the V70 come in at less than £40 apiece :y Mind you I do get them at cost+10% 8)
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Kumho KU 39's on the 3.2, they do me fine. :y
Although not as cheap as they used to be when I had 31's (?) on 2.2, they are more 'premium prices' now :-\
3.2's rears won't last that much longer, thinking Primacy 3's next as not much more, they are on the bus and I like them.
In the PS4 is not a huge lot more again. Then you can properly hoof it around ;)
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Kumho KU 39's on the 3.2, they do me fine. :y
Although not as cheap as they used to be when I had 31's (?) on 2.2, they are more 'premium prices' now :-\
3.2's rears won't last that much longer, thinking Primacy 3's next as not much more, they are on the bus and I like them.
In the PS4 is not a huge lot more again. Then you can properly hoof it around ;)
Probably not an option for someone scared to drive in the wet ::)