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[Bigron]

That means that it will return to what we originally signed up to - a European ECONOMIC Union, yes?
There was very little wrong with that; it all went sour when we were hoodwinked into converting to a Political union and allowing ourselves to be ruled by foreigners.

Ron.

[Sir Tigger KC]

That means that it will return to what we originally signed up to - a European ECONOMIC Union, yes?
There was very little wrong with that; it all went sour when we were hoodwinked into converting to a Political union and allowing ourselves to be ruled by foreigners.

Ron.

No Ron we would to all intents and purposes still be a full member of the EU, but we would have no MEP's, no EU Commissar, no British judges sitting at the ECJ, the PM would not attend meetings of the European Council, so we would have nobody fighting for our national interest in the corridors of power in Brussels! 

Oh and we would still have to pay billions to Brussels and obey all the laws, directives, rules, and regulations that we have had no say or influence over. 

[Bigron]

Not a good deal, then?

Ron.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Not a good deal, then?

Ron.

Nope and there won't be a good deal either as the EU have no interest in negotiating a deal that would be good for people and businesses across Europe.  Their sole intent is protecting 'The Project' and they will do this at any cost! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Might the well timed threats from Airbus have any connection to the fact that they have received around 10 million Euros in grants from the EU ? 
He who pays the piper...…..

Nothing to do with the fact that their white elephant has effectively ceased production

Brexit is a convenient excuse to cull 15,000 jobs that won't suddenly appear elsewhere. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Might the well timed threats from Airbus have any connection to the fact that they have received around 10 million Euros in grants from the EU ? 
He who pays the piper...…..

Nothing to do with the fact that their white elephant has effectively ceased production

Brexit is a convenient excuse to cull 15,000 jobs that won't suddenly appear elsewhere. 

And also the message was conveniently timed with the meeting of the European Council next week. 

Meanwhile the Telegraph reported that ministers response to Airbus was that if they quit the UK, they will lose the lucrative defence contracts they have with HMG! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Well it's not like we can't buy it from the US

[Sir Tigger KC]

Rather than piss our pants everytime one of the big corporates threatens to leave, we should be busy organising a regulatory approach that makes sense for companies to manufacture in the UK and still be able to sell into the EU whatever the outcome. 

Our government and the civil service need to have some guts and ambition and rather than just be content with wings being manufactured by Airbus here, we should be asking them what they would want to move their entire operation here.  Of course the leftie libtards will scream about races to the bottom and workers rights etc, but I think that with a sensible approach we could make the UK an attractive place to do business and still have good protections for workers and the environment! 

[Bigron]

Sir Tigger, you are clearly an intelligent man, but when have you known politicians to espouse the "sensible approach" History, both recent and distant, is littered with disastrous and ill-informed decisions/policies, to our cost.
If they had a clue about proper management, they would have proper jobs in industry at much more than they are earning now: clearly, they are lacking in those skills, which is why we are lumbered with them! 

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Rather than piss our pants everytime one of the big corporates threatens to leave, we should be busy organising a regulatory approach that makes sense for companies to manufacture in the UK and still be able to sell into the EU whatever the outcome. 

Our government and the civil service need to have some guts and ambition and rather than just be content with wings being manufactured by Airbus here, we should be asking them what they would want to move their entire operation here.  Of course the leftie libtards will scream about races to the bottom and workers rights etc, but I think that with a sensible approach we could make the UK an attractive place to do business and still have good protections for workers and the environment! 

Without commenting on the politics around Brexit..............you are spot on Sir Tigger.  Why does the parts of a plane travel backwards and forwards across European countries to be completed?  What was wrong with building an entire plane in one country......like Britain as we were, and still could be, the best aircraft builders in the World?!

Let's revive the great British engineering centres and skills for British workers.

[Sir Tigger KC]

This is the thing Lizzie, it's promoted as a good thing that parts and processes criss cross Europe multiple times before the end product is finished.    What of the carbon footprint and the time and costs involved in shipping bits and pieces all over the place. 

Jeremy Whine gave the example of BMW MINI the other day, where they build the engines in the West Midlands.  The crankshafts are made here, but then shipped to Belgium for polishing, before returning to the West Midlands for assembly.  I really wonder whether these decisions are made for political reasons rather than sound business reasons as I find it hard to believe that there isn't an engineering firm somewhere in the West Midlands that could polish a crankshaft.  I also find it hard to believe that a Belgian company's cost base is significantly less than a UK firm, to the point that it is worth shipping truck loads of crankshafts to Belgium and back.    Given that they churn out 800 MINI's a day at Cowley, thats a lot of trucks shuttling back and forth! 

[Lizzie Zoom]

This is the thing Lizzie, it's promoted as a good thing that parts and processes criss cross Europe multiple times before the end product is finished.    What of the carbon footprint and the time and costs involved in shipping bits and pieces all over the place. 

Jeremy Whine gave the example of BMW MINI the other day, where they build the engines in the West Midlands.  The crankshafts are made here, but then shipped to Belgium for polishing, before returning to the West Midlands for assembly.  I really wonder whether these decisions are made for political reasons rather than sound business reasons as I find it hard to believe that there isn't an engineering firm somewhere in the West Midlands that could polish a crankshaft.  I also find it hard to believe that a Belgian company's cost base is significantly less than a UK firm, to the point that it is worth shipping truck loads of crankshafts to Belgium and back.    Given that they churn out 800 MINI's a day at Cowley, thats a lot of trucks shuttling back and forth! 

Indeed, all examples of daft policies, and for me used to dealing with high level corporate finances, I just cannot see that is at all good for the bottom line profitability of those companies.  So much potential profit must be lost in that "criss crossing" game.

Perhaps with us out of the European pact, we can again be allowed to build things in a complete sense, with increased job and profit potential.

[Kevin Wood]

Without commenting on the politics around Brexit..............you are spot on Sir Tigger.  Why does the parts of a plane travel backwards and forwards across European countries to be completed?  What was wrong with building an entire plane in one country......like Britain as we were, and still could be, the best aircraft builders in the World?!

Let's revive the great British engineering centres and skills for British workers.

.. because otherwise the French get in a tizz. It's exactly the same reason the EU parliament have to waste money relocating between Brussels and Strasbourg.