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[Dave DND]

Going back to the Original post -

If you want to retro fit a subwoofer into the original locations on the Omega, it will not have escaped your attention that many of the Chav ones these days are physically to big  and also very expensive.

Here`s a little tip -
Many of the "amplified" sub boxes from years ago, you may know the ones, the old fasioned smaller "tubes" and "enclosures" that had built in amplifiers, can provide a cheap way of doing things. Many of them can be cannibalised and ripped apart to give a small speaker that will retro fit into the Omega`s original subwoofer location without much effort, and also has an amplifier included that will alsmost certainly run off the rear speaker wires of a standard head unit, or even the RCA terminals with an aftermarket stereo. Best of all, they can be picked up for virtually nothing - not big enough and unwanted by the Chav`s, and if you find a new one at a car audio dealer, it will be covered in dust as they cannot give them away.

OK, it isn`t going to make your ears bleed - but it would certainly add a substantial amount of depth of sound to whatever you were listening to in the quiet cabin of the Omega.

 

[MaxV6]

In general, I'd say Dave's position  is definitely covered by the terms "fair play"   and fair comment,



technically, looking further at what kev has written,  it seems far from impossible,  IF DONE CORRECTLY...


HOWEVER....  given the 4 channel output requirement,  the answer starts to get a little more expensive, but not necessarily crippllngly so...   but certainly more than ideal.


appropriate level drop from hi power speaker feeds, not impossible,  or even that difficult,   dummy load on to original feed, not impossible...   nor difficult...  and BOTH  must be done correctly.... 


but all in all, perhaps not financially sensible.... if you use ready made devices,   you're looking at about  £100 for 4 channels of audio to take an attenuated feed from speaker signals.....   , and probably about another £80 for ready made, dummy loads rated suitably for the typical car  system,

it's a lot cheaper if you build them yourself......     a  basic resistive 16 ohm dummy load capable of handling 100W can be built for less than a fiver....   ditto for other impedances and power ratings.... 




+ the work of getting 9V power supplies in to the units,  and running all that audio cabling....



simply adding BOSE to other systems, probably not a great ida, and i would concur that other speakers may provide a superior sonic result....    (although i see no reason why appropriate choices could not improve the bose system likewise)



all that said.....  the interior of ANY car, is about as far from a perfect acoustic listening space as it's possible to get.....


....  so the BOSE system being acoustically out dated is frankly, IMHO irrelevant....     speaker technology hasn't in fact moved on THAT far since the release of this .....   (although to be fair, i'm not saying bose was anything like cutting edge...even when it was developed....   BOSE have some very strange ideas....   some of them actually work, and some do not.... or at least, not in the way their marketing department claims !! .  )

transducer technologies are largely a mature technology, both incoming (microphones) and outgoing (speakers)  sure , small steps have been made, but nothing earth shattering....   Amplifiers on the other hand, have come on enormously....   since the advent of audiophile quality class D designs, improvements in efficiency, weight, and noise levels have been stunning, however, in a car, you would NEVER notice any of that....




I'm NOT arguing with dave.....    this , for me, is simply by way of interesting discussion, and just pointing to the fact that there are possibilities out there, if anyone is mad enough to actually want to try them....


personally, i'm gonna find a bose system and stick it in my MV6





SOMEHOW

[Dave DND]

MaxV6,

I think you have summed it up almost perfectly

Yes, theoretically it should be possible, and certainly on paper it shouldn`t be that difficult - but definately cost prohibitive (so far) and probably not worth the effort. But you did miss out something also that needs to be taken into consideration - lack of space behind the head unit !!

After much research myself, along similar lines to your own thoughts, I have come up with a Porsche/BOSE adaptor that may fit the bill - but need to undergo some testing on it - as I am looking for an "off the shelf" item as few would have the skills to make something themselves.

Your thoughts about improving the already fited BOSE system are easy - there are commercially available 2 Ohm speakers that offer significant performance over the Bose ones - JBL did a range a while back

all that said.....  the interior of ANY car, is about as far from a perfect acoustic listening space as it's possible to get.....

All the more reason to choose wisely !!

 

In general, I'd say Dave's position  is definitely covered by the terms "fair play"   and fair comment,

Thank you !   


But what drives me towards finding a solution to this is the comment made by Kevin Wood -

I think there's still some value in investigating this, however, if only to stop the repeated "How can I connect my Sony..... to my Bose system" threads.

 

[VXL V6]

Your thoughts about improving the already fited BOSE system are easy - there are commercially available 2 Ohm speakers that offer significant performance over the Bose ones - JBL did a range a while back

We discussed this a while back Dave, if a full set in the right physical sizes could be obtained I think this would possibly be about the easiest and, cost dependant, best upgrade that could be done to an existing Bose system.

Despite thier age, I still like the NCDC headunits with CID displays, The Nav element still gets you where you need to go and has the benefit that it doesn't attract unwanted attention when turned off! It has it's failings such as no Stereo Aux input but the FM Modulator you sell is the simplest route around that and the laser focus failure is always going to be an issue.... unless you have a stockpile of parts to fix these . Of course new parts are a no go area so slowly these will decline in line with the car numbers.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

personally, i'm gonna find a bose system and stick it in my MV6

Sums it up, really!!! ta! 

[Lampynoiseboy]

Agreed their is much better out there if someone wants to pay someone like you a lot of money,

Actually, the upgrades I go on about are NOT that expensive - the original speakers cost less than a pound to produce, and some good speakers can be had for around £35 upwards - probably even less if you look for some good secondhand aftermarket speakers - if you want to go to the upper end of the audio performance, by all means come and see me, but I am more than happy to help those on a serious budget - just hate to see people wasting time and money. If you are going to spend the best part of a weekend pulling the car apart and replacing all this, why do people still insist on wasting all that effort by fitting the cheapest and poorest quaulity speakers.

This seems a little contradictory?
Surely the replacement HU with cd, & mp3 line in, plus 4 or 6 budget speakers, & replacing all the wiring (your words, not mine) plus labour can't be cheap, I'd be interested in a quote for a budget system for this?

but as maxV6 says there are a lot of reasons not to do it- especially if you don't want to fit a load of kit that screams "please steal me" to all the chavs & have to call autoglass the next morning.

Don`t understand what you are getting at? Can you actually SEE your speakers and amplifier then? No, didn`t think so - I`m all for retaining the original appearance of a classic car, and that means the head unit and anything visable - as far as hideaway amp and speakers, they can be replaced with better performing items and I do not see how anyone would know from the outside. Aftermarket speakers on the original head unit can sound very good - Its the BOSE system I have an issue with - it is very complex to fit, and the quality has been vastly overtaken nowadays

No, i can't see my amp or drivers, and I don't want to. The point is, no-one I know has ever had their car broken into by someone trying to steal a factory fitted HU, but I know plenty who've had AM HU's stolen, including the folding front blank panel type, & in one instance, a £70 halfords unit!
As for Bose being complex to fit, surely this either Vauxhall's problem, or up to the customer if they so desire to upgrade a non-Bose mig? Someone with your obvious Bose experience shouldn't find it complicated?!

You are also still missing the point with your "quality has been vastly overtaken nowadays" comment. Their are obviously a number of people around who, for whatever the reason, wish to keep the Bose system, but want the flexibility of a different HU. There are those (myself included) that think the Insignia is a better car than the mig (no debate pls, that's for another page!), but this forum is proof that their are a lot of people keeping their migs running, for any number of reasons- do you tell them they are all wrong?? That they should replace the car instead of changing the headlamp adjuster from plastic to metal (that someone on here made) "because quality has been vastly overtaken nowadays"?

I really don't see why dave, you are so dead set against people like MaxV6 (who is obviously more than qualified), trying to help others out- unless you feel it will take work away from you?

Never said that I was dead set against anybody - nor have I ever questioned anybodys capabilities. If you read back over the years of this forum, you will see that this has all been tried and tested before and failed miserably - If people started to listen and do it properly, then yes, it would take a lot of repair work away from us, from people who keep blowing up thier BOSE equipment by thinking they know better. Philips went bust 10 years ago and spares for these units have long gone, so why not try to move forwards and keep some stereos alive, instead of keep blowing them up by trying the same old thing again and again.

So you are saying that that's it? No-one else should try because some have failed? That's like saying " The Titanic sank, we shouldn't build anything that big again"
As long as people know the risks, which as you say, are well documented, then surely they should be free to try instead of being blatently told "it's impossible"? I've always believed that their is someone else out there who knows more than me in my chosen field, to believe otherwise is just asking to be made to look foolish.

Surely this is the whole point of forums like this, to help people with less knowledge or experience?

So why are you not listening to me then? I doubt there are many on ths forum with more car audio experience than me! However, you are right, thats exactly the point of the forums, but don`t ever think that the question you are asking hasn`t been asked before - read back through the archives first - there is some excellent articles covered by all sorts of experts - sadly, where it fails, is when people are too lazy to read what has preiously been tried or written.

I am listening, & have read all I can find. However, please see my point above. I once fixed a stage light with a thermostat from a combi boiler, because a plumber told me it was the same thing, and he was right. Doesn't make him a lampy, just shows lateral thinking. MaxV6 is not a car audio fitter, but clearly knows more than a lot about audio system design.

I agree with you about repetitive questions, although I have been guilty of this on other occasions, it takes a very long time to try & read everything on here on your chosen subject! I just think that the answer should be more like "read these threads, this is what's required, but nobody's managed to build it yet, and you are risking your HU" rather than a blanket "it can't be done"

Dave, I too mean no offence or flaming, but I got detention 6 times at school, because "there's no such thing as can't"

Taught me to keep trying!

[Lampynoiseboy]

In general, I'd say Dave's position  is definitely covered by the terms "fair play"   and fair comment,



technically, looking further at what kev has written,  it seems far from impossible,  IF DONE CORRECTLY...


HOWEVER....  given the 4 channel output requirement,  the answer starts to get a little more expensive, but not necessarily crippllngly so...   but certainly more than ideal.


appropriate level drop from hi power speaker feeds, not impossible,  or even that difficult,   dummy load on to original feed, not impossible...   nor difficult...  and BOTH  must be done correctly.... 


but all in all, perhaps not financially sensible.... if you use ready made devices,   you're looking at about  £100 for 4 channels of audio to take an attenuated feed from speaker signals.....   , and probably about another £80 for ready made, dummy loads rated suitably for the typical car  system,

it's a lot cheaper if you build them yourself......     a  basic resistive 16 ohm dummy load capable of handling 100W can be built for less than a fiver....   ditto for other impedances and power ratings.... 




+ the work of getting 9V power supplies in to the units,  and running all that audio cabling....



simply adding BOSE to other systems, probably not a great ida, and i would concur that other speakers may provide a superior sonic result....    (although i see no reason why appropriate choices could not improve the bose system likewise)



all that said.....  the interior of ANY car, is about as far from a perfect acoustic listening space as it's possible to get.....


....  so the BOSE system being acoustically out dated is frankly, IMHO irrelevant....     speaker technology hasn't in fact moved on THAT far since the release of this .....   (although to be fair, i'm not saying bose was anything like cutting edge...even when it was developed....   BOSE have some very strange ideas....   some of them actually work, and some do not.... or at least, not in the way their marketing department claims !! .  )

transducer technologies are largely a mature technology, both incoming (microphones) and outgoing (speakers)  sure , small steps have been made, but nothing earth shattering....   Amplifiers on the other hand, have come on enormously....   since the advent of audiophile quality class D designs, improvements in efficiency, weight, and noise levels have been stunning, however, in a car, you would NEVER notice any of that....




I'm NOT arguing with dave.....    this , for me, is simply by way of interesting discussion, and just pointing to the fact that there are possibilities out there, if anyone is mad enough to actually want to try them....


personally, i'm gonna find a bose system and stick it in my MV6





SOMEHOW

This sounds very much like the voice of someone who has been inside an 802    

[MaxV6]

inside, outside, underneath,  behind, on top of, in front of, and in therapy because of... 
 

[Lampynoiseboy]

inside, outside, underneath,  behind, on top of, in front of, and in therapy because of... 
 

Yr either really thin, have dislocated wrists or a sharp saw...... prefer the 3rd option  8-)

[MaxV6]

you missed an option, that is far superior.



a rather great big hammer.

[Dave DND]

Ok, Some more I have to answer:

This seems a little contradictory?
Surely the replacement HU with cd, & mp3 line in, plus 4 or 6 budget speakers, & replacing all the wiring (your words, not mine) plus labour can't be cheap, I'd be interested in a quote for a budget system for this?

Quote:

We won`t do it - labour costs are not worth it for a budget system - If you are on a budget, then do it yourself - what you see is a list of what needs doing.

No, i can't see my amp or drivers, and I don't want to. The point is, no-one I know has ever had their car broken into by someone trying to steal a factory fitted HU, but I know plenty who've had AM HU's stolen, including the folding front blank panel type, & in one instance, a £70 halfords unit!

Who mentioned changing the head unit? We`re talking amp and speakers here with the original head unit being retained.

As for Bose being complex to fit, surely this either Vauxhall's problem, or up to the customer if they so desire to upgrade a non-Bose mig? Someone with your obvious Bose experience shouldn't find it complicated?!

I may be wrong here, but not sure BOSE was a aftermarket option, even by Vauxhall due to the amount of work required - it was a line fit system in production. And no, I personally don`t find it complicated - just pointless - very different argument.

So you are saying that that's it? No-one else should try because some have failed? That's like saying " The Titanic sank, we shouldn't build anything that big again"

Titanic wouldn`t have sank if someone had spotted the Iceberg - nothing wrong with the boat.

As long as people know the risks, which as you say, are well documented, then surely they should be free to try instead of being blatently told "it's impossible"? I've always believed that their is someone else out there who knows more than me in my chosen field, to believe otherwise is just asking to be made to look foolish.

Never said it CANT be done, just that the methods that keep being talked about when people jump on here at an early stage have all been tried before. Trying to share research and save everybody some time.

I once fixed a stage light with a thermostat from a combi boiler, because a plumber told me it was the same thing, and he was right. Doesn't make him a lampy, just shows lateral thinking.

Good for you - And I am all for some lateral thinking, problem is, very few are coming up with it - everyone just keeps going over the same old things that have failed previously. I have been looking into solutions using parts from other cars also - still undergoing research though - problem is, I`m spending more valuable time answering the same old questions instead of being able to move forwards.

MaxV6 is not a car audio fitter, but clearly knows more than a lot about audio system design.

A good asset to have on board then - hopefully he will share his research with the rest of us.

I agree with you about repetitive questions, although I have been guilty of this on other occasions, it takes a very long time to try & read everything on here on your chosen subject! I just think that the answer should be more like "read these threads, this is what's required, but nobody's managed to build it yet, and you are risking your HU" rather than a blanket "it can't be done"

Sorry, but there still remains blanket advice of "it cant be done" until somebody actually proves otherwise.

but I got detention 6 times at school, because "there's no such thing as can't"

Then why not conduct some research of your own and try to HELP ?

you missed an option, that is far superior.

a rather great big hammer.

Now you are talking my language

 

[2woody]

a little off-topic, but can I compliment you all on being able to have a proper, honest discussion where everyone listens to everyone else's point of view and can disagree without over-reacting, mud-slinging or otherwise taking it all too seriously.

this is what a web forum should be all about !

[Dave DND]

a little off-topic, but can I compliment you all on being able to have a proper, honest discussion where everyone listens to everyone else's point of view and can disagree without over-reacting, mud-slinging or otherwise taking it all too seriously.

this is what a web forum should be all about !

You have no idea how much your comments are appreciated !!

There is always the danger of either offending people, or becoming too arrogant and "holyer than thou" so its really comforting to know that others reading this thread can see a "balanced" discussion.

To be fair, its one of the reasons that keeps me coming back to the Oof forum - very few other forums have as many active members that contribute in such a firendly and helpfull way.

 

Ok, enough flattery, now what are you really after ?

 

[2woody]

well,  now you mention it......

no, absolutely nothing I need just now.

[Lampynoiseboy]

As for Bose being complex to fit, surely this either Vauxhall's problem, or up to the customer if they so desire to upgrade a non-Bose mig? Someone with your obvious Bose experience shouldn't find it complicated?!

I may be wrong here, but not sure BOSE was a aftermarket option, even by Vauxhall due to the amount of work required - it was a line fit system in production. And no, I personally don`t find it complicated - just pointless - very different argument.

My apologies, you said complex, not complicated  :-?

So you are saying that that's it? No-one else should try because some have failed? That's like saying " The Titanic sank, we shouldn't build anything that big again"

Titanic wouldn`t have sank if someone had spotted the Iceberg - nothing wrong with the boat.

I suggest you read the latest research, there was plenty wrong with the boat- not least the lack of lifeboats!

As long as people know the risks, which as you say, are well documented, then surely they should be free to try instead of being blatently told "it's impossible"? I've always believed that their is someone else out there who knows more than me in my chosen field, to believe otherwise is just asking to be made to look foolish.

Never said it CANT be done, just that the methods that keep being talked about when people jump on here at an early stage have all been tried before. Trying to share research and save everybody some time.

Er, I also suggest you read your own post a few lines down, I've highlighted it for you 

MaxV6 is not a car audio fitter, but clearly knows more than a lot about audio system design.

A good asset to have on board then - hopefully he will share his research with the rest of us.

Agreed!

I agree with you about repetitive questions, although I have been guilty of this on other occasions, it takes a very long time to try & read everything on here on your chosen subject! I just think that the answer should be more like "read these threads, this is what's required, but nobody's managed to build it yet, and you are risking your HU" rather than a blanket "it can't be done"

Sorry, but there still remains blanket advice of "it cant be done" until somebody actually proves otherwise.

but I got detention 6 times at school, because "there's no such thing as can't"

Then why not conduct some research of your own and try to HELP ?

If I owned a decent 'scope, I would have by now!

you missed an option, that is far superior.

a rather great big hammer.

Now you are talking my language

 [/quote]

If you were familiar with the 802, you would be amazed how right you are!!