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[TheBoy]

Is it fair to say, that the best head unit/system for the omega is the standard one?(within the realms of 2011/13/15 etc or whatever)
And that ANY alteration from the complete system will also have a down side, such as loss of basic functions, like check control, bc, or what ever...?

Theres no doubting technology has moved on since the design stage, but that same technology and the ice industry generally has yet to find a way to improve on the system as a whole, without loosing at least part of the functionality. Ie, there are better/newer systems, but none have a remote dash monted display that work in omega, for example.

In short, if there is a system for omega that works better than standard with out loosing functions, then nobody on here knows about it. And no cd70 doesnt count....yet. Apparently.

If there is, then bring it on....

And that would require loosing the Bose amp/speakers (but maybe possible to use another amp?)

[TheBoy]

The input to the Bose is a standard flat response for info.

Hmmm, when a ccr600 or a non bose aware ccr2006 is fitted to bose amp, you have to adjust the tone controls as you adjust the volume.  Which would imply, to my simple mind, the response of the non bose HU (or bose aware in non bose mode) is different to bose HU (in bose mode)....

[TheBoy]

SUPASTU
if your local pop around ill show you my setup
ive got it working in my car and thats proof

SUPASTU, if you want to replace the HU, I'd do it correctly, and fit a modest amp in place of the bose one, and some decent quality speakers.

[Dave DND]

There will always be those that come on here saying that they have done it. I could probably run the engine on two star fuel, but just because you can, does not mean that you should.

The Alpine head unit with 4v preouts would probably fire the BOSE amp up and run it, but as the protection circuit of the head unit is being bypassed running the pre-outs, you have no safeguard in place. You would still have low end volume issues, although the 4V is unlikely to overdrive the BOSE amp. However, you are also feeding in a +ve and -Ve signal to the amp instead of a balanced line input that it is looking for. Yes, its probably running, but if you look at the characteristics of what is going on, that system is so strained, you are just lucky something has not gone pop.

Ok, you have been running it in a taxi all day - so what? I have dedicated car audio engineers spread over 7 repair benches that have been repairing these for 19 years where people don`t listen to what we are saying - not quite sure what your point is? Oh well, more money for me I suppose in repair charges.

[Dave DND]

The input to the Bose is a standard flat response for info.

Hmmm, when a ccr600 or a non bose aware ccr2006 is fitted to bose amp, you have to adjust the tone controls as you adjust the volume.  Which would imply, to my simple mind, the response of the non bose HU (or bose aware in non bose mode) is different to bose HU (in bose mode)....

Good observation TB, and you are indeed correct. It is not just the output level that is attenuated, but the output dynamic frequency range is also altered when a head unit is programmed into BOSE mode, so yes, you can indeed actually play around with the volume by altering the tone controls.

 

[Marks DTM Calib]

The input to the Bose is a standard flat response for info.

Hmmm, when a ccr600 or a non bose aware ccr2006 is fitted to bose amp, you have to adjust the tone controls as you adjust the volume.  Which would imply, to my simple mind, the response of the non bose HU (or bose aware in non bose mode) is different to bose HU (in bose mode)....

There is a curve within the amp (plus filtering to support the bass speaker install and remove the lowe frequencies from the door units) but, this is basicaly how Bose do pretty much all thier speaker setups.

I would infer its this that you are seeing and is related more to the minimal volume control you get using such a setup.

I have a few Bose amps in the garage, I will crack one open and do some measurements, I will also do a frequency plot using a test disc to.

[Dave DND]

I just love this comment from the Taxi driver

i think we gonna go round in circles

 

[Dave DND]

I have a few Bose amps in the garage, I will crack one open and do some measurements, I will also do a frequency plot using a test disc to.

Pretty sure we have some test data here we did years ago if you want me to forward it over

[Dave DND]

Oh, and just another one to throw into the discussion -

BOSE systems from different Marques are also not interchangeable. For instance, a Honda BOSE head unit will not run the Omega BOSE system. The systems really were designed specifically for a single vehicle type.

[tango]

I just love this comment from the Taxi driver

i think we gonna go round in circles

 

see its funny when someone suggests something out of the norm on here, everyone wants to have a go
dave you sell car audio stuff and maybe have a lot of knowledge in it and other members on here respect that fact
i also have a lot of respect for people who have knowledge and experience
i am 34 years old
yes i drive a taxi
but i have a lot of knowledge when it comes to car audio
ive been installing car audio since i was 16 and have yet to opps up
and for the record you must have heard of bass-junkies in wolverhamton
i ran their shop in birmingham for a short while until i got bored of working for someone
i aint no noob and i have previously said i have vast experience in car audio
i have won bass competions and do car audio as a hobby
just cuz i dont come on here often dont mean i chat poo

[Dave DND]

Tango,

Sorry mate, but I thought it funny that a Taxi driver should comment about going around in circles.

And for the record, I never questioned you car audio knowlegde or background - if you have competed in the Bass competitions then you will have been aware of us also - From when we assisted with the feature on C4 Big Breakfast that ran for months to starting the Loud! Association - and the first car in the world to get a pure "flat 40" was one of ours - you will understand the level of knowledge required to get that - Bass Junkies? hell, we even did your repairs for many years !!

However, knowledge gained from playing around installing a few large systems, or even running a large shop is very different to running a warranty repair centre on behalf of the manufacturers, and when I say that BOSE should not be connected to aftermarket systems, it is based on the knowledge and experience of what can and does go wrong.

Even the manufacturers (BOSE) say that it should not be done - and yet, you appear to know more than the people who designed the system in the first place and still reckon it can be done. Amongst others, we are also Philips trained and I know EXACTLY what the BOSE specs are for the OEM configured head units, but I am not permitted to disclose any technical or confidential data on a public forum- so I will simply say:

Sorry, but you are wrong.

And this is not the place to argue or fall out over it

[MaxV6]

actually to avoid muddying the waters ,   i'm taking this point out of the public eye.....   

[Dave DND]

actually to avoid muddying the waters ,   i'm taking this point out of the public eye.....

I`ll get back to you on that one, once I have consulted my book of words . . .

But yes, we are trying to reach a solution also.

[zirk]

whats a non standard curve
and if you havnt tested how can you be so sure
ive tested and used for a couple of years, im a taxi driver, so my speakers get hammered 8 hours a day
this is without issues
the bose amp is no different from a standard amp
other than its inputs are fixed so not variable


and i reckon the only difference betwenn a bose unit and a standard unit is that the bose unit has its internal amplifier disabled, so speaker outs are turned into pre outs
i havnt measured them but i reckon they must be around 2 volt thats pretty much the same as other aftermarket headunits
but i had alpine unit with 4v preout doing a fantastic job
and ive already mentioned that to change the amp you can use the same wiring all you need to do is upgrade the power and ground cables

Been mentioned on here plenty of times, big differences between Bose Amps, HU's and aftermarket stuff.

Bose HU output level is reduced true but not to Line Level standards, for starters the Bose HU output is Balanced at low impedance, unlike Aftermarket HU with Line Level, Unbalanced outputs to drive Amps, same again the other way round the Bose Amp input is expecting a Balanced Signal with a lower impedance for it to drive.

Forgetting voltage for the time bring, miss matching impedance and un / balanced i/o can make a variety of frequency response errors, Head Room and Dynamic Range will probably go out the window and quiescent background noise being pumped up or down like a yoyo, not to mention what the Hardware is trying to cope with, your maybe get sound through it but not totally convinced it will sound like it should, IMHO.

Chris.