Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tigers_gonads on 04 July 2018, 10:39:02
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Just a quickie or two :D
I've had a rust free pfl estate in dry storage for a few years and since i've got some money :D and a few days to spend it, I thought i'd get a few rattle cans and spray it so it can be fitted one day ::)
Firstly, does the rubber seal pull out so I can do a better spray job on it ?
Secondly, i've also got a MV6 front bumper c/w towing eye cover which needs painting, a side skirt to do and also the rear bumper needs sorting out.
Will the paint bond to the plastic okay IF the plastic is keyed with some scotchbrite and plenty of primer is applied first ?
TIA :)
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Seal pops out :y
As for the bumper etc, if already painted, simply key, degrease and paint :y
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Okay :y
Cheers Al :)
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And another question ................
Is the tailgate wiring loom / loom plug the same across all years and models ?
This tailgate i'm painting is off a S reg gold Mfl :-\
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Should be, just cross check the loom/plug :y
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If the Bumper or any Plastic or Resin item is scratched into the plastic, then use Plastic Padding filler or similar, finish, rub down, prep, and then use Etch Primer or a good plastic Primer, them prep again, before using Base Coat, prep, and Top Coat / Clear Coat / Lacquer or what ever the Man in the Shop wants to call it this week.
Use the correct Primer Colour for the Base Colour, so you can see through if any of the Base Coat has been thinly applied or when rubbing down between coats, ie, most common mistake is people use Grey Primer and coat over it with a Siver Base Coat.
Make sure your final Base Coat (Car Colour) is nice and dry (Hard) before applying Clear Coat / Lacquer.
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Off down to the van a week on monday for a week or more so the aim is to have the tailgate done, rear Mv6 spoiler painted and swapped and also the side
skirt painted and fitted.
Next is the rear bumper then last but not leased, the front (which looks like a pain in the arse)
I have work this weekend and some of next week so i'll see how it goes :-\
At the end of the day, i'm not a sprayer can normally do a more then half decent job if I keep calm and don't rush :y
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Make sure your final Base Coat (Car Colour) is nice and dry (Hard) before applying Clear Coat / Lacquer.
If you let the base coat get too hard, then the laquer coat has nothing to key to. It's like spraying a colour onto a surface without abrading it slightly - it needs the surface to below to key to. As you can't go over the base coat of a metallic with wet and dry or a scotchbrite pad prior to laquering because the abrading will affect the effect of the 'metallic finish', the laquer needs to be applied to the base coat relatively shortly afterwards. Leave it long enough for the solvents to evaporate, and it's on its way to going off, but before it has gone 'hard', otherwise the laquer will lift or peel in time as it hasn't been able to adhere to the surface below.
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Make sure your final Base Coat (Car Colour) is nice and dry (Hard) before applying Clear Coat / Lacquer.
If you let the base coat get too hard, then the laquer coat has nothing to key to. It's like spraying a colour onto a surface without abrading it slightly - it needs the surface to below to key to. As you can't go over the base coat of a metallic with wet and dry or a scotchbrite pad prior to laquering because the abrading will affect the effect of the 'metallic finish', the laquer needs to be applied to the base coat relatively shortly afterwards. Leave it long enough for the solvents to evaporate, and it's on its way to going off, but before it has gone 'hard', otherwise the laquer will lift or peel in time as it hasn't been able to adhere to the surface below.
How hard is "to hard" in these temperatures ?
Giving that the colour coat is touch dry within minutes, am I best to finish rubbing down the last few fine marks in the colour, panel wipe then a last coat of colour (to get the metallic grain back) then say 5 or 10 minutes later, get the first coat of lacquer on ?
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It needs to be virtually dry to the touch, but not fully dried or hard. In these sort of temperatures 10 minutes should be fine - when the temperatures are more like 'normal', you can wait 15 minutes or so. Laquer is harder to judge the quantity you have applied in one coat, but thin coats are best so that the laquer is just flowing. It sometimes helps if you hold a small inspection light at angle to get the reflection in the paint/ laquer which can help show how the paint / laquer is flowing. Cordless is best so you are not thinking about the cord whilst concentrating on the finish!
Don't forget that with the initial sweep as the paint is dispelled it will look as if there isn't enough paint, but within seconds if the quantity is correct it will flow into itself leaving a good finish. It's at this point before it has 'flowed' that the temptation to apply a little too much paint or laquer can result in a poorer finish or runs. Less is better than too much. You can always apply an extra coat, but properly getting rid of heavy runs is harder work which sometime necessitates going back to the initial stages.
There is no need to flat the base coat at all as this will ruin the metallic finish, and no need to use a panel wipe as theoretically there will no contamination on the surface.
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Well there was a few irritating marks which just wouldn't seem to cut away so just been back to get some high build filler / primer.
Just got a few coats on so waiting for it to go off properly before I get the paper on it again :y
Fingers crossed, I should have it pretty much finished tomorrow night :y
Now its cooled down that is ;D
The way its going, its going to cost pretty much the same as the body shop quoted me but i'd be missing out on all this fun :D
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How hard is "to hard" in these temperatures ?
Giving that the colour coat is touch dry within minutes, am I best to finish rubbing down the last few fine marks in the colour, panel wipe then a last coat of colour (to get the metallic grain back) then say 5 or 10 minutes later, get the first coat of lacquer on ?
You can't flat out the fine marks after you've applied colour! Especially if using metallics; they show underlying scratches(you want to be using at least 600grit paper) and if you do flat the base colour you'll need to apply another coat. Clear goes on once the base coat is dry; that will be about 15/20 minutes, although you can leave it few hours. If you leave it too long, the clear won't cross link with the colour, and might peel off.
Rattle cans don't apply much material, and you're stuck with whatever the spray pattern might be those make getting a good finish on a large area very difficult They're also expensive, so the most I'd consider them for would be things like mirror casings.
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How hard is "to hard" in these temperatures ?
Giving that the colour coat is touch dry within minutes, am I best to finish rubbing down the last few fine marks in the colour, panel wipe then a last coat of colour (to get the metallic grain back) then say 5 or 10 minutes later, get the first coat of lacquer on ?
You can't flat out the fine marks after you've applied colour! Especially if using metallics; they show underlying scratches(you want to be using at least 600grit paper) and if you do flat the base colour you'll need to apply another coat. Clear goes on once the base coat is dry; that will be about 15/20 minutes, although you can leave it few hours. If you leave it too long, the clear won't cross link with the colour, and might peel off.
Rattle cans don't apply much material, and you're stuck with whatever the spray pattern might be those make getting a good finish on a large area very difficult They're also expensive, so the most I'd consider them for would be things like mirror casings.
I found that one out the hard way Nick so went back to basics and applied a little filler / primer.
That seemed to do the trick :y
Okay, the tailgate has had a full can of colour on it and it seemed to have gone on pretty good.
The nozzles are vertical fan shaped so i've been able to walk around the table while spraying to keep the flow steady :y
I left it about 20 minutes then emptied a full can of clear lacquer on.
It seems okay to me and the shine is starting to come through nice and even.
I intend to empty another can onto it but the breeze is starting to get up :(
Can I build up the lacquer up tomorrow OR will the lacquer be too hard by then ?
TIA :)
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How many coats of laquer have you been able to apply? The first coat is usually just a very light coat, the second is a wetter coat, the third coat a little thinner but again a wet coat. If you have been able to apply three, as long as it is left for a few days to harden, you shouldn't need to put any more lacquer on. Just don't go too heavily when compounding it, or use too coarse a compound unless you can leave it for around a week before doing it. If you are feeling really brave, you could flat it off gently with 2000 grit wet / dry before compounding it - this will get rid of any orange peel you may have and leave you with a beautiful deep shine when you have finished. Don't forget a decent smooth wax polish to protect the new paint afterwards.
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How many coats of laquer have you been able to apply? The first coat is usually just a very light coat, the second is a wetter coat, the third coat a little thinner but again a wet coat. If you have been able to apply three, as long as it is left for a few days to harden, you shouldn't need to put any more lacquer on. Just don't go too heavily when compounding it, or use too coarse a compound unless you can leave it for around a week before doing it. If you are feeling really brave, you could flat it off gently with 2000 grit wet / dry before compounding it - this will get rid of any orange peel you may have and leave you with a beautiful deep shine when you have finished. Don't forget a decent smooth wax polish to protect the new paint afterwards.
I have put about 1 1/2 cans / 3 coats on at the moment.
Sadly the sun came out and all the flowers started throwing pollen about so after the 3rd sweep was touch dry. I'm pretty sure its not under the lacquer. Due to the dusting of pollen on it, I didn't fancy touching the surface with anything so stopped there :y
I probably have enough for a light coat but the body shop is only 15 minutes down the road so if another coat or two is needed, no problem :y
The top of the tailgate looks great but the large vertical surface which the badge / number plate goes on is pretty dull :-\
I have some G3 cutting compound and some decent soft polish too but no 2000 grit paper. Will 1500 do or is that to rough ?
The lot needs to be rebuilt and on the car by Sunday afternoon because i'm going away :y
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If you think there are contaminants in the final coat of lacquer, you can flat the laquer down gently with no problems as long as you don't go through to the colour coat, and then reapply a few more light coats, or the marks may come out with flatting, depending how big or deep they are. You could try rubbing the 1500 grit on something like a wet stone or something like a smooth stone from the garden to just take the grit down a bit, or you could use it in conjunction with a bar of household soap. Wipe the wet /dry paper on the bar of soap before you put it to the fresh paint, but go gently preferably with a block on the flat areas, or as best as you can keep your hand as flat as possible. Whilst the paint is still relatively fresh, if you are not careful, because your fingers aren't a flat area, where the pressure is greater under your fingertips, then this area will remove more laquer and leave lines if you go at it too harshly.
Alternatively because it is still quite fresh, use a finer cutting compound, and keep the cloth in a pad shape as flat as possible. But whatever, because it won't have hardened fully, go gently and you should be ok.
Sunday is a good few days off yet, so I would say it should be reasonably hard to compound it reasonably well in time for you going away, or you could always leave the compounding until you get back by which time it should be hard enough to go at it more vigorously! I would leave putting any polish on it until you come back, but keep your eye on it for any bird crap falling on it which will eat into soft fresh paint quickly. I would also avoid parking it it under any trees if at all possible too because of the tree sap.
I'm sure it will look fine when it all gets assembled!
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I've never used 2000g paper,1200grit with plenty of soapy water and G3 compound by hand(on a small panel!) is perfectly adequate. It doesn't take much; as soon as the paper affects the whole surface, you need to swap to the next grade of abrasive. One of the silicone water blades that valeters use is very handy for this step, as you want to remove as little paint as possible. If painting with rattle cans, I'd only flat and polish paint that had a very poor finish.
I must polish the panels I painted(with a spray gun and 2k paint) on the Metro.
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Just another point, before you start with your wet and dry paper, leave ithe paper to soak for a while in the water to soften. Doing this reduces the risk of the corners digging into thr new paint whilst flatting, which will then need more serious remedies.
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Oh for the want of a garage were I can do all this stuff :(
Okay, i've had a good look at it this morning and i'm chuffed to bits with the top and sides but I believe the main surface could do with the last half of can of lacquer so my intention is to firstly water the plants to keep the dust floating about, wipe the crap off the panel then finish the can off while the metal is warm :y
I've already dropped a new sheet of 1500 grit paper in a bucket c/w plenty of soap for when its time :y
Question about the G3 ?
I have a machine polisher here at the moment which I was going to give the headlights a going over with.
Can I use G3 (with plenty of water) after the 1500 grit paper or is the machine polisher too much at this stage ?
TIA :)
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G3 works better if used with a polisher. But on a small surface, or plastic doing it by hand is easier. It doesn't need water, just a damp cloth; it's a thin paste that breaks down as you work it, which doesn't happen if you make it liquid.
The paper will work better if you use it on a block rather than just your hand. There are lots of expensive blocks you can buy, or you can improvise with wood or stiff foam.
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G3 works better if used with a polisher. But on a small surface, or plastic doing it by hand is easier. It doesn't need water, just a damp cloth; it's a thin paste that breaks down as you work it, which doesn't happen if you make it liquid.
The paper will work better if you use it on a block rather than just your hand. There are lots of expensive blocks you can buy, or you can improvise with wood or stiff foam.
I've got a couple of old foam blocks so i'll wrap the wet paper in that :y
The G3 i've got is in a bottle :-\
Is that okay ?
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I've got a couple of old foam blocks so i'll wrap the wet paper in that :y
The G3 i've got is in a bottle :-\
Is that okay ?
Yes.
But you will have to squeeze some out for it to work......
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I've got a couple of old foam blocks so i'll wrap the wet paper in that :y
The G3 i've got is in a bottle :-\
Is that okay ?
Yes.
But you will have to squeeze some out for it to work......
Okay, thanks :)
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Personally, unless you have used a machine polisher before and are relatively experienced with one, I would do the compounding by hand especially with new paint. It is so easy to either burn the paint or go through to the base coat (colour) or the primer on the raised areas, or edges.
Don't forget the paint will still be relatively soft, and a machine polisher can be quite aggressive if used incorrectly. It is easier to control your hand than a machine!
There are different machine polishers - the type with two handles which in my opinion aren't really suited to smaller areas of body panels, or the type which look like an angle grinder. You need to use the correct grade of foam pad depending on what you are polishing, but the polisher needs to have a variable speed control as the speed should be quite low so that the paint doesn't get burnt!
I would suggest practising using the machine polisher on an old car or old body panel (or someone else's car :D!!) to get used to it before doing your fresh new paint!
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Personally, unless you have used a machine polisher before and are relatively experienced with one, I would do the compounding by hand especially with new paint. It is so easy to either burn the paint or go through to the base coat (colour) or the primer on the raised areas, or edges.
Don't forget the paint will still be relatively soft, and a machine polisher can be quite aggressive if used incorrectly. It is easier to control your hand than a machine!
There are different machine polishers - the type with two handles which in my opinion aren't really suited to smaller areas of body panels, or the type which look like an angle grinder. You need to use the correct grade of foam pad depending on what you are polishing, but the polisher needs to have a variable speed control as the speed should be quite low so that the paint doesn't get burnt!
I would suggest practising using the machine polisher on an old car or old body panel (or someone else's car :D!!) to get used to it before doing your fresh new paint!
The polisher is large angle grinder type with variable speed.
I normally drag in a helper c/w puffer bottle full of water to make sure it doesn't get too hot :y :y
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Okay, a quick update
Been working but here is the jist of things ...........
Everything painted.
Colour looks like a great match.
Gave everything a light rub down with 1500 grit paper that had been sat in soapy water overnight.
Everything now is smooth to the touch.
Intend to cut it back a little with some G3 tomorrow if I get chance then rebuild and fit.
Soft polish next week while i'm away :y
Would have liked to have got more lacquer on the main part but we will see how it looks when its polished up :y
As always, thanks lads :)