Topic: Cough Cough ! (Read 6110 times)

Taxi_Driver · « **on:** 17 July 2006, 20:42:17 »

Hi all

I had been discussing this problem in the Gallery Section

but thought it better in here

My meega has some issues when on LPG.....poor mpg....poor perfomance.....like prolly down nearly 20% when you push it on lpg....totally gutless.

I had taken it back to the lpg installer several times complaining about the performance....they checked it and declared nothing wrong

Its been fully serviced at vx dealers....last service 60k....its now done 65k (B4 u ask its still under networkq warranty.....so dont want any probs arising from warranty claims)

Martin Imber helpfully suggested some things i try.....new plugs...new air filter

The plugs i changed last, have now done 12k so are due changing again, and i have vx plugs to fit....so this weekend i'll do them.

LPG is fussy and will highlight any engine prob.....

Now....the air filter....i thought id have a look at it earlier.....i thought the air box would be clip on like my veccy....ummm no its torx screws.....ok fine torx driver at the ready.....all undone ok except the the screw at the front right of air box.....its so badly rusted it aint coming out...got there in the end with the aid of flat bladed screwdriver and ummm a hammer....so got the air filter out and guess what its black!!!!

Another prob it had....was floor the pedal from standstill and it went cough cough splutter then went.....so tried it without the airfilter (not probably the wisest of things to do) guess what...it went no probs....no coughing at all.....put the air filter back in and back to cough cough again.

So....i may have found the prob.....it needs a new air filter.....dont vx bother to change the air filter then...when you have it serviced???

From the probs i had getting the filter out.....i guess its the original air filter....

I'll get a new air filter tomorrow......then hopefully shud be better....

Just a bit annoyed that vx dont bother changing the air filter....or coz they had probs like i did trying to get the air filter out they didnt bother!!

Cheers

TheBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 July 2006, 20:45:00 »

Thats dealers for you. Bet they charged you for one as well....

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 July 2006, 20:56:20 »

Quote

Thats dealers for you. Bet they charged you for one as well....

Dunno m8......im so crap at keeping invoices.....and carnt find it.....but pretty sure it just said 60k service + brake fluid change.....which i ok'd them to do.....but no mention of brake pads change which were done under networq warranty....

STMO123 · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 July 2006, 21:05:04 »

When I take my car to my local garage for a 'service', they always call it a standard service-about £130. I've never bothered to ask just how basic this is.

summat · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 July 2006, 21:07:26 »

Quote

Thats dealers for you. Bet they charged you for one as well....

Reminds me of a bloke I work with - took his Saab into dealer for service - charged for the pollen filter replacement - afterwards he noticed that they hadn't actually changed it. Kind souls eventually posted one to him for him to fit, after he complained and threatened legal action.

I wonder WHY it is that we prefer to do the do-able jobs ourselves? (oil-changes excluded, in my case)

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 July 2006, 21:24:20 »

Quote

Quote
Thats dealers for you. Bet they charged you for one as well....

Reminds me of a bloke I work with - took his Saab into dealer for service - charged for the pollen filter replacement - afterwards he noticed that they hadn't actually changed it. Kind souls eventually posted one to him for him to fit, after he complained and threatened legal action.

I wonder WHY it is that we prefer to do the do-able jobs ourselves? (oil-changes excluded, in my case)

And in my case......i dont mind doing plugs....and now air filter....oil change, rather take it to my local garage and pay to get it done.....its a bit difficult when the car is parked on road

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 July 2006, 23:18:32 »

I really hope this is the issue because it should better than you have been getting.

LPG systems are especially messed up by a clogged filter, I am surprised the installers didn't check or notice.

LEt us know how it goes with a new filter in it!

tunnie · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 July 2006, 00:01:40 »

On inspecting my airfilter with TheBoy we discovered they fitted the wrong one.

Performance is up in mine, it used to feel very stuffy low down and would spluttler if I gave it full beans off the start.

Now no problem smooth as a babys bum though the lower rev range.

Make sure you get a GM part TD, don't bother with Pattern parts

Salty · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 July 2006, 06:57:55 »

What about using a K&N or similar air filter?? Anybody any views??

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 July 2006, 09:08:42 »

Well you can clean K&N and they filter better - as to flow - that is debatable, it is not worse but I don't know if it is better. That said I think there is a tiny improvement.

But then I haven't changed an air filter in 5 years, I just wash them!!!!

nixoro · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 July 2006, 10:44:09 »

Quote

Well you can clean K&N and they filter better - as to flow - that is debatable, it is not worse but I don't know if it is better. That said I think there is a tiny improvement.

But then I haven't changed an air filter in 5 years, I just wash them!!!!

Just wash them never heard of that, I guess just soap and water will do the job.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 July 2006, 10:52:35 »

K and N's I have always found to be rubbish, they filter ok but generaly have a lower flow rate after about 4-6 weeks of normal use as they clog up much quicker.

nixoro · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 July 2006, 10:57:57 »

I dont actually have a K&N filter but I guess I could do the same with what I have got.

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 July 2006, 10:58:27 »

Quote

Quote
Well you can clean K&N and they filter better - as to flow - that is debatable, it is not worse but I don't know if it is better. That said I think there is a tiny improvement.

But then I haven't changed an air filter in 5 years, I just wash them!!!!

Just wash them never heard of that, I guess just soap and water will do the job.

There is a spray but mine ran out so I use washing up liquid and a lot of rinsing before reoiling

Salty · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 July 2006, 10:58:31 »

So whats best? standard paper filter?

I've never heard of washing a paper filter before is it effective??

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 July 2006, 10:59:27 »

Quote

K and N's I have always found to be rubbish, they filter ok but generaly have a lower flow rate after about 4-6 weeks of normal use as they clog up much quicker.

I've used them for years - never had a problem - just wash every 3 - 6 months.

Salty · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 July 2006, 11:01:52 »

I see, It's the K&N type you wash!

that's what your supposed to do isn't it?

Do you re oil them as well?

nixoro · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 July 2006, 11:04:49 »

If you have to re oil them what oil is needed?

Salty · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 July 2006, 11:06:15 »

K&N filter oil!
Now there's a surprise Eh!!

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 July 2006, 18:31:42 »

So i went to vx dealer this morning......bought new air filter and new pollen filter (carbon type)
Not sure which was which on the invoice.....but one cost £14.20 the other £13.40 incl vat

Bunged in new air filter.......and blimey.....what a difference.
Immediately noticed a better response......gears where changing at lower revs.
It still hesistates a tad when you floor it from standstill.....but noticed it does this on petrol as well....
new plugs at the weekend may fix this.

I tried the sport button at one point....and it actually changed down a gear!....not something ive ever experienced before...as the gearbox ecu usually has in sport mode anyway trying to compensate for the lack of power.

Carnt really comment of fuel consumption yet....but normally i get 125miles to 38l of lpg with aircon off and 100miles with aircon on, running about town....i filled up with lpg yesterday afternoon and had done about 40 miles on it when i changed the air filter.....last few days ive had the aircon on all the time.....when i filled up on way home earlier....i had done 120 miles....frankly i was surprised i hadnt out of lpg....nearly tho....it took 36l to fill up.

So it looks like mpg is up as well

I have noticed that now when i start i from hot.....it idles at about 900rpm until i blip the throttle then it drops to about 600rpm....this is on petrol....as it takes about 30 secs to switch to lpg.
I'll have to see how that goes....but im suspecting that maybe the ecu has been compensating for the lack of air flow for so long.....it might take a few days for it to re-adjust.

Im going to Ipswich on Sat.....so i'll let you know how it does on that run....performance and mpg wise...sooner if get any airport runs.

Im very interested as to how it copes with motorway hills when on cruise......before any sniff on an incline and it used to change into 3rd

So Cheers guys for your input....spes Martin for suggesting the air filter.

At the moment its [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Moral of this.....dont let your air filter do 65k miles without changing it.....and dont assume vx dealers change it on a major service.....which i assumed they did

markey mark · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 July 2006, 18:55:35 »

air filter should be changed on a major service

carnt belive they havnt done it !! :-/

TheBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 July 2006, 19:25:15 »

Air filter will make no end of difference if its done 65k. I tend to change mine at about 10k, as easy and cheap to do.

And dealers skimping on servicing? Nah, never....

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 July 2006, 20:53:56 »

Well Dave I am glad it's sorted [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Salty · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 July 2006, 21:00:08 »

Quote

I'll have to see how that goes....but im suspecting that maybe the ecu has been compensating for the lack of air flow for so long.....it might take a few days for it to re-adjust.

Does the ecu learn? and adjust for different conditions/driving styles?

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 July 2006, 21:14:09 »

Yes it does - you can force a reset by disconnecting the ECU but I don't think it is worth it.

The LPG will be a lot leaner now so consumption should improve a lot.

Am I becoming a guru?

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 July 2006, 21:17:36 »

Quote

Air filter will make no end of difference if its done 65k. I tend to change mine at about 10k, as easy and cheap to do.

And dealers skimping on servicing? Nah, never....

WIth LPG they are especially critical - can't find the link at the moment but I have read it in a number of places.

38l of gas on a run with a 2.2 should do 160 miles at least

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 July 2006, 21:31:24 »

Quote

Well Dave I am glad it's sorted [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Cheers Martin.....i hope it is

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 July 2006, 06:39:19 »

Quote

air filter should be changed on a major service carnt belive they havnt done it !! :-/

Last major service i had it serviced 'Masterfit' so maybe they dont on a Masterfit service....dunno...
but the probs i had undoing one torx screw on the airbox.....so badly rusted that a torx wouldnt grip....and fact the filter was darker in colour than a charcoal pollen filter.....its certainly not been changed in a good while....if ever

Salty · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 July 2006, 06:42:42 »

I suppose you should ask for the old parts or to see them after any job done on your car. After all with some repairs thet don't even fix it so the old bits are still ok!!

TheBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 July 2006, 09:14:45 »

The last time Evans Halshaw at MK touched my car it was for their top of the range Vauxhall service (I was unable to do at the time). They tried charging my for air filter, fuel filter, plugs until I showed the service mgr the state of the (alledged new) parts on the car - even then he tried wriggling out of it.

So, don't go purely by receipts. And don't assume that the 'old' parts they give you if you ask are off you car. Some dealers are crooks.

markey mark · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 July 2006, 17:00:58 »

always best to do it yourself then you know its done right

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 July 2006, 23:34:01 »

Come on Dave - time for an update!

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #32 on:** 21 July 2006, 07:45:16 »

Quote

Come on Dave - time for an update!

Well....i havent anything new to report really...except mpg is up it seems by about 3 mpg running about town

its now doing approx 15mpg on lpg about town with aircon on....havent been on a run yet...tomorrow im off to Ipswich...so will be able to report what its doing on a run then.

It was certainly nippier when i changed the air filter.....doesnt quite seem as much now....but maybe im getting use to the extra power.....so taking it for granted now

The fast idle when starting has stopped.....so i guess thats settled down.

Did wonder if it was worth taking it back to lpg installer for readjustment...but dunno if clean air filter would make any difference to the settings they adjust.
Bearing in mind they reckoned nothing was wrong on the occasions i did take it back to them.

EML did come on yesterday but cleared after a restart.....havent checked the code yet....but not surprised....as vx dealers 'fix' last time for EML was on, was just reset it.

Cheers

Dave

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #33 on:** 21 July 2006, 14:40:47 »

Well mine is running too lean so I am booking an hour or so with a local installer with a ODBC compliant reader to watch my lamda probe - he reckons 1/4 hour to get trims correct

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 July 2006, 17:56:59 »

Quote

Well mine is running too lean so I am booking an hour or so with a local installer with a ODBC compliant reader to watch my lamda probe - he reckons 1/4 hour to get trims correct

The installer i go to, just sticks a probe up the exhaust (like in MOT stations) and goes by that

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 July 2006, 19:05:19 »

This chap will use a ODBC thing or will intercept the Lamda

TheBoy · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 July 2006, 20:16:34 »

You mean OBD - ODBC is a computing term...

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 July 2006, 20:22:49 »

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You mean OBD - ODBC is a computing term...

aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 July 2006, 17:35:14 »

After my run to Ipswich today, 360 miles round trip.
Steady 80mph where motorways allowed.
I can report my meega averaged 25mpg with the air con on.
Seeing it only did 24mpg before (on same run) without the air con on, i think this is vast improvement

SO if you add say 4mpg to the new average to account for aircon being on....more like 29mpg....an improvement thereabouts of 5mpg. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

For you petrolheads this is prolly about 34/35mpg in petrol terms.

Also tested the cruise on the way back on the m4......it cruised up all the hills without changing into 3rd at all [smiley=thumbsup.gif] (not like before, it used to change into 3rd on most of the hills) so definately power up as well!!

Think I'll be changing the air filter a bit sooner than 65k miles next time

Cheers

Dave

PS Doing the plugs in the morning......this might even improve it a bit more!

TheBoy · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 July 2006, 17:51:15 »

Sounds like a decent improvement, and certainly sounds like the drivability has improved

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #40 on:** 22 July 2006, 18:27:46 »

Looks like a worthwhile job them - better drivability and economy

MartinP · « **Reply #41 on:** 22 July 2006, 21:14:14 »

Only just read this thread

From what I understand airflow is more critical to LPG setup, the installer of my single point conversion took the standard airbox off and fitted a J&R cone.

Presumably he wanted to ensure adequate airflow. The car was bought after the conversion so this is second hand info.

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #42 on:** 23 July 2006, 08:04:17 »

Quote

Only just read this thread

From what I understand airflow is more critical to LPG setup, the installer of my single point conversion took the standard airbox off and fitted a J&R cone.

Presumably he wanted to ensure adequate airflow. The car was bought after the conversion so this is second hand info.

Dunno about J&R cone :-/
Condition of air filter is important to all engines, lpg, petrol, diesel.
This thread shows what happens if vx dealers or yourself dont change the air filter.
My meega had done 65k miles on what i believe was the original air filter....it was black/dirty....now a nice clean one

MPG is up, power is up.....so good result.
Mines got the original airbox on it....no mods there.
Does a J&R cone make it 'growl' a bit?......Maybe the previous owner wanted a bit of extra noise??

BTW Plugs are important to change with LPG......doing mine this morning.....they have done 13k now.....Best to do every 10-12k miles

Cheers

The Cambelt Kid · « **Reply #43 on:** 23 July 2006, 22:27:55 »

Taxi Man,

I have the same problems with my LPG install (although i can't take it back to the garage as i fitted it myself) It feels a little lumpy when pulling off hard but if i were to pull away slowly it runs just fine. I also found that the problem occurs more so after a long run and the engine is upto temp. As soon as i'm past the 2.5k rpm mark it tends to clear up.

I will try a new filter this weekend and see how that improves it. Maybe i'll try removing the filter first as a very quick test!

The Cambelt Kid · « **Reply #44 on:** 23 July 2006, 22:29:48 »

Taxi Man,

I have the same problems with my LPG install (although i can't take it back to the garage as i fitted it myself) It feels a little lumpy when pulling off hard but if i were to pull away slowly it runs just fine. I also found that the problem occurs more so after a long run and the engine is upto temp. As soon as i'm past the 2.5k rpm mark it tends to clear up.

I will try a new filter this weekend and see how that improves it. Maybe i'll try removing the filter first as a very quick test!

Martin_1962 · « **Reply #45 on:** 23 July 2006, 22:32:05 »

SOme installers don't mind helping DIYers for a small sum - I will be doing some fine tuning with a local installer some time soon to richen the mixture

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Author Topic: Cough Cough ! (Read 6110 times)

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