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Author Topic: Red battery warning light and no instruments  (Read 16041 times)

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Darius

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #75 on: 10 April 2020, 13:29:31 »

Ideally I'd like to pull the pins out of the connector, but I doubt I'll have the correct pin extraction tools.
Could you bodge a pin extraction tool? 

I don't know Vauxhall plugs and sockets well but most pins just have a longitudinal bit of the pin sprung away from the pin to act as a catch when the pin is inserted into the plug body.  A bit of very thin metal (Coke can? bit of old feeler gauge?  bit of beryllium copper strip from an old relay?) pushed up from the connection side might get through and do enough to force the springs back to allow the pin to be extracted. 
 
Or very fine long nose tweezers coming down from the wire side?

They aren't expensive - see https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=electric+socket+pin+extraction+tool&_sacat=0 where I searched on electric socket pin extraction tool and an 18 piece set is £2.65 but from China (where else) so takes a while.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAVITA-21-PCS-Terminal-Removal-Tool-Key-Extractor-Tool-Pin-Extraction-Tool-Kit/293478654426?hash=item4454b0e1da:g:O2AAAOSwlnVeSOHZ has a good diagram of what is needed and another photo shows the shape required for different pins.
« Last Edit: 10 April 2020, 13:40:00 by Darius »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #76 on: 10 April 2020, 15:43:08 »

There's a whole selection of electrical contact tools available.

Vauxhall plugs aren't generally that complicated as long as you can move the plug around to get an understanding of how it's clipped together.
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #77 on: 14 April 2020, 16:42:34 »

Ideally I'd like to pull the pins out of the connector, but I doubt I'll have the correct pin extraction tools.
Could you bodge a pin extraction tool? 

I don't know Vauxhall plugs and sockets well but most pins just have a longitudinal bit of the pin sprung away from the pin to act as a catch when the pin is inserted into the plug body.  A bit of very thin metal (Coke can? bit of old feeler gauge?  bit of beryllium copper strip from an old relay?) pushed up from the connection side might get through and do enough to force the springs back to allow the pin to be extracted. 
 
Or very fine long nose tweezers coming down from the wire side?

They aren't expensive - see https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=electric+socket+pin+extraction+tool&_sacat=0 where I searched on electric socket pin extraction tool and an 18 piece set is £2.65 but from China (where else) so takes a while.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAVITA-21-PCS-Terminal-Removal-Tool-Key-Extractor-Tool-Pin-Extraction-Tool-Kit/293478654426?hash=item4454b0e1da:g:O2AAAOSwlnVeSOHZ has a good diagram of what is needed and another photo shows the shape required for different pins.

Ordered the SAVITA-21-PCS item on Friday, and arrived this morning. I'm running out of excuses to look at things now :-)
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #78 on: 15 April 2020, 20:15:27 »

So whilst faffing with the gearbox today I though I'd have a quick (hah!) look at the electrics. I had assumed this was connector X1



Not a brilliant picture, but anyway, I separated the plug and started con-checking to the cold side of fuse F15. None of the pins in this connector are connected to F15. Hmmm. Worse than that, the pin I was looking for was X1 pin 49 - and this connector doesn't have 49 pins.

So next step, the passenger side footwell.



The blue and green blocks are both quick release levered connectors. So disconnect the blue block...



.. and con check to F15. One connection as far as I can tell - on Pin 34 which is a thin Yellow wire?

Next disconnected the green plug, and the power sounder alarm went off (yes I know!). So reconnected the plug and then disconnected the main battery (yes I know as well!)

Then unplugged the green connector again. No pictures this time so use your imagination. Con checked to F15, and again one connection on pin 77, which is a thick black wire.

Con checked to the fan test connector FTpin3 under the bonnet. With the green plug plugged in there is continuity between FTpin3 and F15. With it out, there isn't. So I'm pretty sure the green connector is X1 - although the pin-out is different to Haynes. Secondary evidence for this is the power sounder going off. Haynes shows a connection between the alarm ECU and the power sounder which runs via X1 pin 58.

No idea what the Blue connector is. It looks like most of the loom from the blue connector runs down the passenger side sill, so perhaps it's supplying the rear body systems, and the green plug is engine bay. 

Access to the yellow wire is fairly good, so using my new extractor tools I oiked it out. And that's where I'm at. Working blind with no circuit diagram. F15 didn't blow on the gearbox test drive, but early days.
« Last Edit: 15 April 2020, 20:19:46 by LC0112G »
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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #79 on: 15 April 2020, 20:48:23 »

Haynes isn't the correct wiring diagram for your car, but we've already been through that.

I still think your problem is butchery behind the fuse box.
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #80 on: 17 April 2020, 21:31:52 »

Ok, so a mysterious piece of software has somehow found it's way onto my PC.  ::) It seems to contain the wiring diagrams for facelift omegas  :D I'm still experimenting with it but it seems fairly good.

Turns out, the blue plug in the photos above is connector X8, and pin 34 is indeed a feed from fuse F15, via the coil of relay K19. The wire is indeed yellow. The circuit then feeds the rear level control sensor.

The green plug is connector X1, and pin 77 is the F15 feed to a shed load of body units - LWR, CLC, WS, DWA, ASP, SH and MEM.

LWR is Headlamp levelling.
CLC is Car level Control
WS is Warning Sounder (Saudi Arabia - so probably not relavent)
DWA is the Alarm ECU
ASP is Parking Mirrors (don't think I've got these)
SH is Front Heated Seats & Rear Heated Seats
MEM is inside mirror, and seat memory.

There are loads of other units fed by F15, but not via X1pin77. 

So, I'm tempted to pull X1pin77 and see what happens next. I don't think any of the units powered via here are particularly critical.
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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #81 on: 24 April 2020, 17:41:41 »

Have you pulled the front carpets out yet? Also the rearward wiring runs behind the kick panels. ALL the rear lighting, rear seats, self levelling, and iirc fuel pump/sender all run down the left hand side and only the aerial and rear audio gubbins runs after the right hand B pillar.

Alot of the loom from those plugs runs across the floor. Also, one plug on either A pillar connects the dash loom to the body loom.

Some wiring could well come through the bulkhead to X1, dissappear into the loom and feed back through the other plug into the dash loom.
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #82 on: 24 April 2020, 18:18:00 »

Once I'd got access to the correct circuit diagrams I checked all the things I'd previously disconnected against the diagrams to see if there was anything I'd missed. I didn't want to disturb the wiring if I didn't have to. The obvious difference on F15 was the heated front seats. 

Haynes shows these being powered of fuse F14 via the dash switches, which is presumably correct for PFL (and MFL?). However, these new circuit diagrams for FL show them being powered of fuse F15, via connectors X36 and X37. So I've unplugged both connectors X36.3 and X37.3 (lines 3200-3749, physically located by the seat bases), and plugged everything else back in. The drivers seat being faulty might explain the variation in dash ignition bulb brightness when steering or wiggling the wheel. Every action has an equal and opposite, so a force on the steering wheel exerts and equal and opposite force on the drivers seat via my backside.

So far, so good, although I haven't been able to do any long trips yet.
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Tick Tock

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #83 on: 24 April 2020, 18:45:20 »

So whilst faffing with the gearbox today I though I'd have a quick (hah!) look at the electrics. I had assumed this was connector X1
Next disconnected the green plug, and the power sounder alarm went off (yes I know!). So reconnected the plug and then disconnected the main battery (yes I know as well!)

I keep popping into this thread to see how you're getting on, and it would appear you are no further forward than you were in October last year. There's nothing worse than an intermittent fault, so you have my sympathies.

It could be complete dangle berries, but we're all aware of the power sounder issue on these cars. I didn't waste much time in removing and disposing of mine on 3 different cars, but it would appear from your post that there is still one fitted. Would it be a silly question to ask if that's eliminated, then you have a blank canvas on which to fault find?  Just a thought, but please don't shoot me down in flames.  :-\
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LC0112G

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Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #84 on: 24 April 2020, 23:09:39 »

So whilst faffing with the gearbox today I though I'd have a quick (hah!) look at the electrics. I had assumed this was connector X1
Next disconnected the green plug, and the power sounder alarm went off (yes I know!). So reconnected the plug and then disconnected the main battery (yes I know as well!)

I keep popping into this thread to see how you're getting on, and it would appear you are no further forward than you were in October last year. There's nothing worse than an intermittent fault, so you have my sympathies.

My fault didn't start till December, and I'm cautiously optimistic I have now found it. If you look through the thread you'll see the initial suspect was the self levelling, and when that was ruled out next bet was the heated seats. I then got mislead because I didn't have access to the correct circuit diagrams into thinking the front seats were on a different fuse. If I'd have know back then what I know now....

It's still possible it's something else, but I won't find out for sure until Boris/Macron tells us we can drive 1000km in a day.


It could be complete dangle berries, but we're all aware of the power sounder issue on these cars. I didn't waste much time in removing and disposing of mine on 3 different cars, but it would appear from your post that there is still one fitted. Would it be a silly question to ask if that's eliminated, then you have a blank canvas on which to fault find?  Just a thought, but please don't shoot me down in flames.  :-\

Power sounder power feeds come from fuses F14 and FV5 on both pre and post facelift. It's only got 4 terminal pins, and F14, FV5 and ground accounts for 3 of them. The 4th one goes to the Alarm ECU, so it would require a fault in the Alarm ECU (which is connected to F15) via the power sounder. Never say never, but very unlikely a Power sounder fault is capable of blowing F15. I've more chance of winning the lottery - and I don't even play it.
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