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[omega3000]

Ive noticed that my single tow bar socket does not have the option for reversing lights so is it legal not to have them  

[Andy B]

Ive noticed that my single tow bar socket does not have the option for reversing lights so is it legal not to have them  

Reverse lights would be fed from the 12S/grey socket. Not a legal requirement to have them 

[omega3000]

Ive noticed that my single tow bar socket does not have the option for reversing lights so is it legal not to have them  

Reverse lights would be fed from the 12S/grey socket. Not a legal requirement to have them 

Is that from a twin socket set up , just want to wire up so i can pick the caravan up then ill fit a twin one ..

This is all ive got to wire to 

[Andy B]

Ive noticed that my single tow bar socket does not have the option for reversing lights so is it legal not to have them  

Reverse lights would be fed from the 12S/grey socket. Not a legal requirement to have them 

Is that from a twin socket set up , just want to wire up so i can pick the caravan up then ill fit a twin one ..

That's right. 
the black 12N socket powers road lighting ie side lights left, side lights right, brake lights, turn left, turn right, rear fog and an earth (zero volts for Mark  )

The grey 12S does  fridge, caravan battery charging & the reverse light. You'll have to Google re these though because they changed slightly to do with the use of an earth return for each rather than than them both sharing a single earth.

[Andy B]

. ..

This is all ive got to wire to 

 

[omega3000]

Got a bit worried when i seen no option for reversing connection and started swearing  Got quoted £21 for a double socket one .

[Andy B]

..... Got quoted £21 for a double socket one .

is that for the gold plated version?  You can buy a 12S socket on its own for a few quid, but you can also buy one pre-wired with a short length of (hopefully) correct rated cable http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-pin-12S-pre-wired-socket-on-mounting-plate-towbar-electrics-trailer-caravan-/321477002646?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Touring_Travel&hash=item4ad985c596 not forgetting that you'll need a split charge relay of some kind. Again, a local towbar fitting place will have them for reasonable money.

[omega3000]

Ah yes wasnt thinking right , i just need the 1 extra socket 

[Andy B]

Ah yes wasnt thinking right , i just need the 1 extra socket 

  you'll get there 

[omega3000]

Ah yes wasnt thinking right , i just need the 1 extra socket 

  you'll get there 

 

Quite happy with myself , all wired up and everything working as it should 

[Andy B]

Ah yes wasnt thinking right , i just need the 1 extra socket 

o

  you'll get there 

 

Quite happy with myself , all wired up and everything working as it should 

 

[05omegav6]

Apologies for a slight hijack, but might be relevant

Can the wiring for the 12N and 12S sockets be combined into a single13pin one? Thinking of fitting the single socket rather than the double and an adaptor lead...

Would a new13pin socket include the terminal layout to facilitate this

[Auto Addict]

Apologies for a slight hijack, but might be relevant

Can the wiring for the 12N and 12S sockets be combined into a single13pin one? Thinking of fitting the single socket rather than the double and an adaptor lead...

Would a new13pin socket include the terminal layout to facilitate this

Should do, my old Swift had twin sockets, and I bought an adaptor lead to fit the 13 pin on the Insignia.

Everything worked OK.

[omega3000]

..... Got quoted £21 for a double socket one .

is that for the gold plated version?  You can buy a 12S socket on its own for a few quid, but you can also buy one pre-wired with a short length of (hopefully) correct rated cable http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-pin-12S-pre-wired-socket-on-mounting-plate-towbar-electrics-trailer-caravan-/321477002646?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Touring_Travel&hash=item4ad985c596 not forgetting that you'll need a SPLIT-CHARGE-RELAY[/highlight]-12V-30-AMP-/370837857617?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item5657a8a551]split charge relay of some kind. Again, a local towbar fitting place will have them for reasonable money.

VOLTAGE SENSING SPLIT CHARGE RELAY

Is that necessary ? I thought the internal caravan battery would be enough to keep the fridge running on tickover  Then when you get to the caravan site you hook up to the mains 

[Auto Addict]

..... Got quoted £21 for a double socket one .

is that for the gold plated version?  You can buy a 12S socket on its own for a few quid, but you can also buy one pre-wired with a short length of (hopefully) correct rated cable http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-pin-12S-pre-wired-socket-on-mounting-plate-towbar-electrics-trailer-caravan-/321477002646?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Touring_Travel&hash=item4ad985c596 not forgetting that you'll need a SPLIT-CHARGE-RELAY[/highlight]-12V-30-AMP-/370837857617?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item5657a8a551]split charge relay of some kind. Again, a local towbar fitting place will have them for reasonable money.

VOLTAGE SENSING SPLIT CHARGE RELAY

Is that necessary ? I thought the internal caravan battery would be enough to keep the fridge running on tickover  Then when you get to the caravan site you hook up to the mains 

I think, but could be wrong, that it stops one battery draining into the other when the ignition is switched off.

[Andy B]

....

Is that necessary ? I thought the internal caravan battery would be enough to keep the fridge running on tickover  Then when you get to the caravan site you hook up to the mains 

Your fridge is wired up to be powered from the car when the engine's running, there's no supply from the caravan fridge and also the 'split' part of the name is to split the car & caravan battery from each other unless the car engine is running, otherwise you can end up with 2 half flat batteries, neither of which will start your car. On 12 volts, IIRC the fridge draws about 10 amps, the caravan battery won't last long supplying 10 amps before it's flatter than flat if it could supply it. The other alternative is to not wire it up, make sure your fridge is cold on mains/gas before you set off and go to a site within the defrost time of your fridge  Having said that, as long as the door is left shut, it'll stay cold for a while. 

[omega3000]

....

Is that necessary ? I thought the internal caravan battery would be enough to keep the fridge running on tickover  Then when you get to the caravan site you hook up to the mains 

Your fridge is wired up to be powered from the car when the engine's running, there's no supply from the caravan fridge and also the 'split' part of the name is to split the car & caravan battery from each other unless the car engine is running, otherwise you can end up with 2 half flat batteries, neither of which will start your car. On 12 volts, IIRC the fridge draws about 10 amps, the caravan battery won't last long supplying 10 amps before it's flatter than flat if it could supply it. The other alternative is to not wire it up, make sure your fridge is cold on mains/gas before you set off and go to a site within the defrost time of your fridge  Having said that, as long as the door is left shut, it'll stay cold for a while. 

 

I see , like the link says ..

When the engine is started, the relay detects the higher voltage from the alternator and will then switch to allow charge to go through to the leisure battery.

[Andy B]

...

I see , like the link says ..

When the engine is started, the relay detects the higher voltage from the alternator and will then switch to allow charge to go through to the leisure battery. ....

Exactly. 

[Andy B]

Apologies for a slight hijack, but might be relevant

Can the wiring for the 12N and 12S sockets be combined into a single13pin one? Thinking of fitting the single socket rather than the double and an adaptor lead...

Would a new 13pin socket include the terminal layout to facilitate this

Yes to both. I wired the Omega as a single 13 pin so I could hide the electrics easier on the detachable towbar. It was as easy to rewire the caravan to a single 13 core cable & a 13 pin plug to match 

[05omegav6]

Apologies for a slight hijack, but might be relevant

Can the wiring for the 12N and 12S sockets be combined into a single13pin one? Thinking of fitting the single socket rather than the double and an adaptor lead...

Would a new 13pin socket include the terminal layout to facilitate this

Yes to both. I wired the Omega as a single 13 pin so I could hide the electrics easier on the detachable towbar. It was as easy to rewire the caravan to a single 13 core cable & a 13 pin plug to match 

[omega3000]

Can i fit two 12N's .. whats the difference as they are both 7 wire 

[minifreek]

The sockets on the car are different from each other so you don't get them mixed up...

You'll find that a 12N socket won't allow a 12S plug to be fitted into it and vice versa... they are also different colours for the same purpose...

You dont need reverse lights as a legal requirement, plus reverse lights on a caravan are pretty damn useless anyway...

[omega3000]

The sockets on the car are different from each other so you don't get them mixed up...

You'll find that a 12N socket won't allow a 12S plug to be fitted into it and vice versa... they are also different colours for the same purpose...

You dont need reverse lights as a legal requirement, plus reverse lights on a caravan are pretty damn useless anyway...

Got ya  Amazing how reversing lights not a legal requirement ..

[Andy B]

...

Got ya  Amazing how reversing lights not a legal requirement ..

I'm not sure they're a legal requirement to be fitted to a car either ...... Mr MOT Man doesn't test them.

[Andy B]

Can i fit two 12N's .. whats the difference as they are both 7 wire 

Where's the head in its hands smilie? 

As minifreak says, they're different colours & different orientation of male/female pins inside each of them so you can't plug the wrong plug in.

[omega3000]

Can i fit two 12N's .. whats the difference as they are both 7 wire 

Where's the head in its hands smilie? 

As minifreak says, they're different colours & different orientation of male/female pins inside each of them so you can't plug the wrong plug in.

Im learning all the time andy  Im sure ill be back with some wondrous caravan internal electrical queries 

[Andy B]

.....
Im learning all the time andy  Im sure ill be back with some wondrous caravan internal electrical queries 

 
I'll wait for the 'what's a habitation relay' thread 

[omega3000]

.....
Im learning all the time andy  Im sure ill be back with some wondrous caravan internal electrical queries 

 
I'll wait for the 'what's a habitation relay' thread 

There is a little trimming screw on the relay 

[Andy B]

.....
Im learning all the time andy  Im sure ill be back with some wondrous caravan internal electrical queries 

 
I'll wait for the 'what's a habitation relay' thread 

There is a little trimming screw on the relay 

That's on the voltage sensing relay 

[omega3000]

.....
Im learning all the time andy  Im sure ill be back with some wondrous caravan internal electrical queries 

 
I'll wait for the 'what's a habitation relay' thread 

There is a little trimming screw on the relay 

That's on the voltage sensing relay 

Thats stumped me  I know what the voltage sensing relay does so whats the habitation relay 
Next thing you will be saying i need a solar panel 

[biggriffin]

why do you need reversing lights on a caravan.
 most of the owners struggle to go forwards. now reversing that's a whole comedy on its own

[omega3000]

why do you need reversing lights on a caravan.
 most of the owners struggle to go forwards. now reversing that's a whole comedy on its own

 

[Andy B]

.....
Im learning all the time andy  Im sure ill be back with some wondrous caravan internal electrical queries 

 
I'll wait for the 'what's a habitation relay' thread 

There is a little trimming screw on the relay 

That's on the voltage sensing relay 

Thats stumped me  I know what the voltage sensing relay does so whats the habitation relay 
Next thing you will be saying i need a solar panel 

A voltage sensing relay .....as the name suggests, can tell whether the engine is running or not by how many volts there are ie 12-ish & the engine is not running & 14-ish and the engine is  running. Your caravan battery will be charged & the fridge will be powered ONLY when the engine/alternator is running so the the VSR (voltage sensing relay) knows to only close when the engine is running. The trim alters when the contacts close at close to 14 volts. The VSR lives in the car.

A caravan habitation relay lives in the caravan and is there to prevent power to the inside of the caravan eg lighting extract fans etc but NOT the fridge & caravan battery charging, when the car is connected up and its engine running ...... it's a fairly recent addition to caravanning. It lives inside the caravan.

Just wire up the 12S as per diags on Google etc & don't worry about the habitation relay. 

[Andy B]

why do you need reversing lights on a caravan.
 most of the owners struggle to go forwards. now reversing that's a whole comedy on its own

To give others fair notice to stop doing what they're doing to watch the caravanner make a t1t of him/her self 

[Auto Addict]

One of the best entertainments on a caravan site is watching people putting up a brand new awning for the first time

[omega3000]

One of the best entertainments on a caravan site is watching people putting up a brand new awning for the first time

And taking an hour to reverse like i will be doing as a newbie 

Just wire up the 12S as per diags on Google etc & don't worry about the habitation relay

 

[4x4]

Best thing to do would be pop over to asda late evening and practise with caravan on back ,then you have the parking bays as a guide

[Andy B]

One of the best entertainments on a caravan site is watching people putting up a brand new awning for the first time

That's why it's best to practice at home first if you can.  Though having said that, we put up a porch awning for the first time with an audience (of friends  ) ....... we got a round of applause on completion! 

[05omegav6]

Best thing to do would be pop over to asda late evening and practise with caravan on back ,then you have the parking bays as a guide

Right upto the point where you encounter a width restriction and have to reverse all the way down a one way road to escape  

[Andy B]

Best thing to do would be pop over to asda late evening and practise with caravan on back ,then you have the parking bays as a guide

Right upto the point where you encounter a width restriction and have to reverse all the way down a one way road to escape  

Many wouldn't/couldn't do it if they tried all day. As far as some are concerned, that's why they have a mover, so they don't have to use the car .... saving the clutch is often their excuse 

[omega3000]

Just like driving a wag and drag innit  My gateway is just big enough to get the omega through at the minute 

[05omegav6]

Just like driving a wag and drag innit  My gateway is just big enough to get the omega through at the minute 

Kind of, except the towing vehicle is shorter and narrower, and a wagon/drag won't self destruct when you back into a tree/post/fence/pothole/building

[omega3000]

Just like driving a wag and drag innit  My gateway is just big enough to get the omega through at the minute 

Kind of, except the towing vehicle is shorter and narrower, and a wagon/drag won't self destruct when you back into a tree/post/fence/pothole/building

Thats true  Im going to make sure that asda shopping car park is very empty before trying some 3 point turns and probably at 3am to avoid embarrassment 

[henryd]

One of the best entertainments on a caravan site is watching people putting up a brand new awning for the first time

That's why it's best to practice at home first if you can.  Though having said that, we put up a porch awning for the first time with an audience (of friends  ) ....... we got a round of applause on completion! 

Bloody awnings,our latest twin axle jobbie came with a full size Isabella awning which we have yet to try putting up,so far we've made do with a porch awning as the extra space inside means that unless its a long break I can't be arsed to erect it

[Kevin Wood]

This is what I've never understood about caravanners. They gloat to campers about how easy it is to just rock up and put the kettle on, then they insist on @rsing about for hours trying to attach a tent to the side of their caravan. Seems the worst of both worlds to me.

[Andy B]

....

Bloody awnings,our latest twin axle jobbie came with a full size Isabella awning which we have yet to try putting up,so far we've made do with a porch awning as the extra space inside means that unless its a long break I can't be arsed to erect it

Our full awning tends to be put up just for our fortnight's holiday

[Auto Addict]

This is what I've never understood about caravanners. They gloat to campers about how easy it is to just rock up and put the kettle on, then they insist on @rsing about for hours trying to attach a tent to the side of their caravan. Seems the worst of both worlds to me.

Fifteen minutes flat

Although I have to admit, the first time took nearly an hour and a half.

[Kevin Wood]

This is what I've never understood about caravanners. They gloat to campers about how easy it is to just rock up and put the kettle on, then they insist on @rsing about for hours trying to attach a tent to the side of their caravan. Seems the worst of both worlds to me.

Fifteen minutes flat

Although I have to admit, the first time took nearly an hour and a half.

I've seen worse examples than that. Caravan turned up at the same time as us in Cornwall a couple of years back. Unhitch, jacks down, cup of tea to gloat at the campers putting their tent up. "Right, then, the awning". We'd been to the pub and back by the time they stopped f@rting about with it.

[aaronjb]

Have awnings got significantly more complicated in the last 10 years or so?

I remember my folks putting theirs up in all of 15 minutes - it was just one half of a tent, after all. Slide rubber thing into channel on caravan, plug the two sets of poles together, hook to caravan and prop up in corners of awning and insert cross pole. Peg down guy ropes and you're done, no?

[05omegav6]

Another related question, does the caravan battery and fridge power feed run through the car or under it?

iirc Entwood runs his under, does it matter

Obviously it would be routed for protection and would avoid the exhaust/suspension and propshaft

[Marks DTM Calib]

The spilt charge setups are actually a bit dodgy in reality.

The vehicle supply is fused to say 30A but a flat leisure battery will pull up to 2-3 times that resulting a sudden 'phutt' and a warm fridge. A better option is two relays, a relay with twin high current contacts ,or a second relay driven by the voltage sensing relay plus individual fuses for battery charging and fridge.

That way when you get your stored pikey van out, connect to your car and the Donald ducked leisure battery gets switched in, you don't lose the fridge to. 

[Taxi_Driver]

The spilt charge setups are actually a bit dodgy in reality.

The vehicle supply is fused to say 30A but a flat leisure battery will pull up to 2-3 times that resulting a sudden 'phutt' and a warm fridge. A better option is two relays, a relay with twin high current contacts ,or a second relay driven by the voltage sensing relay plus individual fuses for battery charging and fridge.

That way when you get your stored pikey van out, connect to your car and the Donald ducked leisure battery gets switched in, you don't lose the fridge to. 

Hence i dont like those kind of setups....A leisure battery should be charged at max 10% of its output....ie my 110 Ah leisure battery should be charged at max 11 Amps....hence use the basic battery charger when im camping...cannot supply more than 9amps....and when at home use the battery conditioner...not more than 3-4amps 

[Seth]

This is what I've never understood about caravanners. They gloat to campers about how easy it is to just rock up and put the kettle on, then they insist on @rsing about for hours trying to attach a tent to the side of their caravan. Seems the worst of both worlds to me.

Fifteen minutes flat

Exactly Baz ...



... especially if you get Mrs Seth on the case!

[scimmy_man]

we are on our third bendy awning, the first two died in storms,

as you say 10/15 mins to put up.

[Auto Addict]

Fifteen minutes max, doesn't need guy ropes.