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Author Topic: Senator A2.  (Read 5369 times)

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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #30 on: 29 January 2017, 09:26:22 »

Thanks again CIH!

Am sourcing the parts and will let you know when I start!

The last head I took off was about 30 years ago - it was an 1800 Sherpa.

Many thanks again!

Steve
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #31 on: 29 January 2017, 10:59:56 »

Put the old follower back in and no movement. The groove at the bottom of the follower where it is supposed to be flat dips in a few good mm. Could have been machined shopped looking at it! The cam has done a good job wearing it.



supposed to look like


« Last Edit: 29 January 2017, 11:01:57 by Steve Brookman »
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grifter

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #32 on: 29 January 2017, 17:34:03 »

I just recently stripped head off my Senator B so if you need any tips in advance let me know. I will say that I found stripping the manifolds off nigh on impossible and opted instead to drop the downpipe and lift the head off with them attached. Even with the manifolds off the head weighs an absolute ton so might be best if you can get an engine crane or a pulley to lift. It needs to come straight up about at least 8 inches or more over the cam sprocket as that sits in place on a little tray thing under it. I didn't have any lifter so I had to progressively lever the head up and put blocks under it, then pole vault it on to the battery tray with a big bit of wood under it then bear hug it out of the bay!

Also even though my engine was quite smooth running I did find about half of the tappets were completely gummed up so soaked in petrol for a bit and freed them off.
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #33 on: 29 January 2017, 20:11:33 »

Thanks Grifter,
I was thinking of leaving the inlet and exhaust manifolds on and getting a hoist or lifting gear to get it up.
I was also thinking of using zip ties to connect the cam sprocket to the chain so that the timing doesn't alter.

I'm getting a Cam and tappets his week so will start to strip it down.

I'll definitely be asking for advice!

Regards

Steeve



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cam.in.head

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #34 on: 30 January 2017, 12:41:42 »

Looking at the picture that does look like an early style follower so it follows suit that it would be an earlier style cam.later followers are like the new one pictured with a line around the body near the bottom.early ones again are softer and should only be fitted to earlier cams.have a read of the haynes book.preferably one for a 4 cylinder as found in mk1 cav,ascona,manta or early carlton. This explains quite good the differences.i have seen quite a few esrly ones worn but never the later type.contributed to by lack of oil changes ? ?.later heads had a different style of front cam bearing journal too and had NO oil groove in it.therefor a leter cam can only be fitted to a later head or else oil starvation to the other cam bearings,followers and rocker studs will happen.my opinion now before you get any bits is i eould source a later head from 85 onwards marked on the side with a 'p'. And rebiuild and fit this(grind in valves,new stem seals). It will be better also because it will then  be Fully unleaded compatible.which pre 85 heads are not in the long term.
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cam.in.head

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #35 on: 30 January 2017, 12:47:42 »

Ive just checked.the best book to describe the differences is the haynes carlton 78-86 purple book. It covers the 4 cyl obviuosly but i beleive these same mods were applied to the 6 cyl as well.see page215
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Fuse 19

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #36 on: 30 January 2017, 12:54:28 »

Last time I did one of these (which was a fair while ago), to set the followers you did it with the engine running.

This required fabricating a cover for the chain, you then slackened the tappet nut until it just went noisy before tightening again a quarter turn at a time.....waiting a bit then repeat until a full turn had been achieved.

You have to have the followers reasonably loaded and not at one end of their operation hence the basic nip them up approach does not work and can cause them to wear prematurely.

You will also find the head coked up to buggery so a complete strip, clean and re-lap of the valves is very worthwhile.
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #37 on: 30 January 2017, 17:49:17 »

Many thanks again,

Will keep posted!

Parts should be here by the end of the week.

Steve
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #38 on: 31 January 2017, 07:07:50 »

Just a quickie!

Are new head bolts required?

Regards

Steve
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grifter

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #39 on: 02 February 2017, 07:06:34 »

Just a quickie!

Are new head bolts required?

Regards

Steve

Personally I would as you don't want an old one snapping.
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grifter

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #40 on: 02 February 2017, 07:09:33 »

Thanks Grifter,
I was thinking of leaving the inlet and exhaust manifolds on and getting a hoist or lifting gear to get it up.
I was also thinking of using zip ties to connect the cam sprocket to the chain so that the timing doesn't alter.

I'm getting a Cam and tappets his week so will start to strip it down.

I'll definitely be asking for advice!

Regards

Steeve

To be honest Steve it doesn't go anywhere. Once you loosen the cam sprocket bolt there isn't the tension like you would get on a belt. It just sits on the little support plate underneath it. The timing mark is in behind the bellhousing on driver side, quite hard to see. It's like an arrow pointer that lines up. If you want pics let me know and I can take a few with things out of the way.
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #41 on: 11 February 2017, 16:37:39 »

Hello all,
Have now got all the parts and will start to strip it down tomorrow.

Reading the Haynes manual for a later Senator it says to time it with No 1 at TDC but have read elsewhere with no6 at TDC (the same era Carlton says no4 TDC)-any ideas?

Do I need to undo the chain tensioner?

And lastly-will the cam only fit the sprocket in one position (I was wondering if it was keyed or anything).

Any advice greatly appreciated!!!!!

Steve
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cam.in.head

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #42 on: 11 February 2017, 17:12:23 »

Cam sprocket will only fit in one position.has a dowel for location.cam timing is therefore not adjustable providing it is not a tooth out to start with.with the engine at tdc the sprocket bolts will be relatively straight across and level.the more the chain is worn the less so.you need to turn the engine to bring the grooves on the side of the cam in line to allow for removal of cylinder head bolts. I would leave the tensioner in and once you pull the chain sprocket off it will sit tightly and nicely supported on the metal bracket underneath it.SO LONG AS NOBODY HAS REMOVED IT !. Afterwards you time it up with engine running via cyl 1.i believe with unleaded you are looking at approx 5 deg retarded from original marks but experimenting is req. did you get an unleaded head or are you sticking with the original ?
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Tilbo

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #43 on: 11 February 2017, 17:31:14 »

Always liked them, good buy looks nice .
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Just cruising.When you are old you know everything,trouble is you have to deal with people who know nothing.

Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #44 on: 11 February 2017, 17:52:09 »

Thanks again CIH!

Using the original head-will leave in tensioner.

With regards getting access to the headbolts-I can turn the cam once I have removed the sprocket - is that correct?

Will strap the chain to the sprocket with a few zip ties so nothing can move.

Thanks again

Steve
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