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Author Topic: Senator A2.  (Read 5350 times)

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Fuse 19

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #90 on: 27 March 2017, 11:08:56 »

That particular O-ring missing wont cause that, you would get oil in the water potentially but not water in the oil (the oil feed is much higher pressure than the coolant jacket).

So it must be elsewhere (probably a coolant passage to oil return passage)
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #91 on: 27 March 2017, 11:12:49 »

Thanks Mark-may have torn the gasket.

Steve
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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #92 on: 27 March 2017, 19:08:06 »

Thought I'd have a "quick" look at the Senator after I got home. Two hours later I ended up with this.



I'm getting good at this-must be the practise.

One problem I saw was a hole blocked with sealant (wont be using it again!)



No other obvious faults-"O" ring was in place



I'm thinking too much paste and the fact I couldn't do the head bolts up for at least an hour as I dropped the splined socket into the head.

another pic



steve
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #93 on: 27 March 2017, 19:18:07 »

By way of a suggestion...

No sealant next time unless guides specifically call for it. When refitting cut four lengths of studding and use them as locating dowls to aid and maintain alignment until you have loosely inserted the remaining head bolts... then remove the studding, fit the remaining bolts and tighten them all appropriately  :y

Might need new bolts to go with new gasket.


Oh, and don't drop the socket ;)
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #94 on: 27 March 2017, 19:50:18 »

Thanks Dr!
Definitely no sealant next time. Funnily enough a neighbour also suggested using studding-an excellent idea!

Regards

Steve
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cam.in.head

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #95 on: 28 March 2017, 09:35:57 »

Yes no sealent required everywhere.way too much. I usually put a VERY thin bit down the sides only to stop any seepage .however its a bit worrying that you havnt realy found anything wrong there or the o ring missing. Even in your case.too much sealant and a possible blocked hole it makes me wonder how the water is getting into the oil ?.any signs of anything whatsoever on the gasket ?
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #96 on: 28 March 2017, 11:01:26 »

Nothing obvious at the moment Chris-I'm hoping that there was too much sealant-I then dropped the splined socket and it took an hour to get it back-so the sealant wasn't compressed initially as it should have been. Might also have nocked the gasket-will take it off after and have a good look-cannot think of anything else it could be .

Regards

Steev
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cam.in.head

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #97 on: 28 March 2017, 13:33:18 »

You dont need any sealant on the gasket .that looks like the red hermetite stuff you have used which does tend to harden up.still wouldnt have thought it would go so hard that it would hold the gasket off and create any sort of leak like you have. I have done hundreds of these engines and never seen this happen. I have had many an instance of slight seepage out of the side of the head gasket curable by a head skim,block skim or a VERY thin smear of silicone down the sides as i suggested to you. Thats just what i do .in a perfect world it wouldnt need it.Please make sure gasket is correct and sits correctly around all the waterways .i am hoping you find evidence of something on old gasket to put our minds at ease.there are no obvious cracks anywhere or any low spots on block or head?no over enthusiastic sanding down evidence or deep scratches?.water can only get into the oil if it gets from a waterway across to the head oil feed or by entering the drain back to the sump at the back.
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Fuse 19

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #98 on: 28 March 2017, 13:35:17 »

You dont need any sealant on the gasket .that looks like the red hermetite stuff you have used which does tend to harden up.still wouldnt have thought it would go so hard that it would hold the gasket off and create any sort of leak like you have. I have done hundreds of these engines and never seen this happen. I have had many an instance of slight seepage out of the side of the head gasket curable by a head skim,block skim or a VERY thin smear of silicone down the sides as i suggested to you. Thats just what i do .in a perfect world it wouldnt need it.Please make sure gasket is correct and sits correctly around all the waterways .i am hoping you find evidence of something on old gasket to put our minds at ease.there are no obvious cracks anywhere or any low spots on block or head?no over enthusiastic sanding down evidence or deep scratches?.water can only get into the oil if it gets from a waterway across to the head oil feed or by entering the drain back to the sump at the back.

Not when running it can't  :y
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Andy H

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #99 on: 28 March 2017, 15:32:15 »

Was all the coolant drained before the head came off? Could a cup full of coolant have found its way into the sump when the head was lifted?
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #100 on: 28 March 2017, 18:38:40 »

Thanks Andy-I thought of that as I didn't fully drain the system-but I did change the oil after I put the head back on.

Thanks

Steve
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cam.in.head

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #101 on: 03 April 2017, 20:53:06 »

anything suspect found ?
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grifter

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #102 on: 03 April 2017, 21:41:33 »

Thanks Chris-will have a good look when I take it off -will rig up a chain lift next time so I can gently lower the head into position. I think we were too rough initially-had a big problem lining up the lugs-with the constant toing and froing I think the front O ring may have been displaced.. There are also some big pipes going across the rear of the engine over an inch in diameter-they are to do with the air con so will remove these as well. The only other concern I have is with the rear 2 head bolts-may have to modify a socket or two to try and get the torque wrench on properly.

On a positive-when I drove it this morning it was extremely smooth (if a little tappet-I only adjusted 3 or 4) and quite powerful.

Thanks again

Steve

Took 3 of us to lift mine in, seemed to go in quite easily. I'd fashioned up a sort of cradle fashioned from rope and in it went. It was sitting on the dowels slightly, gave it a wee push back and clunk in i went. I am by however going to make sure this O ring thing is right before I tighten down. I can lift head up at front and give it another look now that head has been sitting on it. I did wonder if it was doing anything though as I poked a screwdriver into head and block where that O ring is and just a dead end??
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Steve Brookman

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #103 on: 04 April 2017, 16:47:17 »

anything suspect found ?

Nothing really-apart from lashings of sealant-hoping it is this and possibly not getting the torques settings spot on as I used the later angle method. Awaiting a new HG and will pop it back on. Now have a chain block to lower it back on so should be easier. I've also removed the large redundant air-con pipes from the rear of the engine-this gives better access to the rear two bolts. These two bolts are near the rear oil drain so if not correct torque could have resulted in a leak.

Thanks

Steve
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Fuse 19

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Re: Senator A2.
« Reply #104 on: 05 April 2017, 10:57:43 »

Angle torque should be better IF the initial torque setting is met correctly.

The method I generally use on large cylinder heads is to set to the initial torque and then go around the head lightly tapping it with a soft mallet to make sure its fully seated before going around setting the bolts to the initial torque setting again.
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