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Author Topic: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold  (Read 6830 times)

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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #15 on: 02 September 2017, 10:38:27 »

Congratulations on your research and testing. Have you tried replacing the old belt yet? It sounds like the belt is the culprit.

My belief is that it's pulley bearings that fail, not belts, so old belt should have life left in it.

If you want a cheap new belt, there is a man here selling new cam belt kits lacking one pulley for £19.99.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Delco-Timing-belt-kit-Vauxhall-Vectra-Calibra-Cavalier-2-5-Omega-2-5-2-6-3-0/222619968296?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D8199d8265d5442d7a714033d6dbafc5c%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D222619968296&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042
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robson

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #16 on: 02 September 2017, 11:09:15 »

James has just fitted one of these kits plus pulley to my 2.6 and it is running like a well oiled sewing machine no tweeting birds.Thanks again James lovely job jobbed.
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #17 on: 02 September 2017, 15:38:40 »

Thanks for comments and tips of that cheap kit. To deliver that in Finland might take time, let's see. Is he someone from OOF to contact?

I took the new belt away and found that new tensioner and idlers have quit big clearance, is it normal?? I checked the old ones and they had much smaller play even they have been there 60 000 km. Have anybody idea is it OK that new parts have much clearance or should they be totally tight when new. Is there inside just a single bearing when it is clear that there is some play.
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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #18 on: 03 September 2017, 12:48:45 »

Maybe. I have found my spare (INA) cam belt kit and checked. Belt width is 29.58mm, pulleys have one flange normal to flat and one angled; flat width is 31.29mm, top is 33.50mm. I imagine kits are all the same. I have fitted an INA kit and is still running normally. Pic follows.

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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #19 on: 03 September 2017, 12:51:09 »

Sorry, wrong pic.

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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #20 on: 03 September 2017, 15:00:27 »

Thaks for nice pic's. Sorry I did not explain my 'clearance case' well enough. Language problem...

I mean that all the new rolls like idlers and tensioner swing when installed. They do not have axial play and they do not have radial play but they swing more than the old ones. Is this normal? As you seem to have new parts on table can you (or anybody else having new parts) do new parts swing.
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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #21 on: 03 September 2017, 16:17:47 »

Thaks for nice pic's. Sorry I did not explain my 'clearance case' well enough. Language problem...

I mean that all the new rolls like idlers and tensioner swing when installed. They do not have axial play and they do not have radial play but they swing more than the old ones. Is this normal? As you seem to have new parts on table can you (or anybody else having new parts) do new parts swing.
i am afriad Ido not understand how your pulleys 'swing. The only freedom mine have is to rotate. With some kits I have had is to rotate.
With some kits I have had to use the original back plate. More pics follow, please explain how your pulleys swing.


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cam.in.head

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #22 on: 03 September 2017, 16:49:53 »

Mine has some clearance in the bearings.'swing' you are reffering to .this is a small clearance designed into the bearing to allow for heat expansion. My old pulleys were skf and my new ones are also skf from an ac delco kit.i wouldnt say my new ones feel to have any more or any less play than the old ones but then the old ones were supposedly only 22000 mile old anyway.the white you refer to on the belt ? Is that just a colour or is there a build up / deposit of paint / ink that will wear off or can be removed?
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #23 on: 03 September 2017, 16:52:44 »

Thanks for your activity here. Difficult to explain in English but I try:

In the fig you enclosed the upper guiding roll is bolted to the base plate. If you press with one hand the base plate against the table and with other hand try to bend or tilt the upper guiding roll without rotating it roll can you feel a movement. Like you test a normal ball bearing to see the clearance. If not clear I try to make a drawing of this.
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cam.in.head

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #24 on: 03 September 2017, 16:53:10 »

Ps. The bearings in the rollers are double row bearings.hence sligtly wider than a standard single row bearing .they are used as they are more stable / stronger and keep the roller running true .
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terry paget

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #25 on: 03 September 2017, 19:33:22 »

Thanks for your activity here. Difficult to explain in English but I try:

In the fig you enclosed the upper guiding roll is bolted to the base plate. If you press with one hand the base plate against the table and with other hand try to bend or tilt the upper guiding roll without rotating it roll can you feel a movement. Like you test a normal ball bearing to see the clearance. If not clear I try to make a drawing of this.
If you mean the pulley rocks on the base, I can detect no movement at all in my kit. Pressing as hard as I can, I can deform the pulley slightly, but I feel no slack in the bearing. Pic shows how I pressed on the bearing.

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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #26 on: 04 September 2017, 04:39:57 »

Thanks for the last pic. Now if you press the tensioner in a position where your left finger is and lift it from the position where your right finger is. Then opposite way you press the right finger area and lift the left finger area. Can you feel the play or clearance of e.g. 1 mm.

If not clear I make a video to youtube how my rolls "swing" (and promise to learn more English, too).
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #27 on: 04 September 2017, 05:16:33 »

Hello again

So here new tensioner (driven 500 km) bolted to old base plate, I feel the swing or clearance or play in my fingers, it can be heard as well. The whole base plate is also moving a bit as the table was not as flat as the cylinder head is. Is this "play" normal. It is similar in both new idlers, too.

Question is that is this normal? Can you see this clip?

https://youtu.be/G0lsavOnsr4
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Chazza12

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #28 on: 04 September 2017, 05:44:01 »

should not have that amount of movement on the bearing, usually a tiny amount, very tiny amount is the movement between bearings and runner by the look of the bearing you have in the video its a grad d-f bearing not any good for a timing belt. this movement can be that the timing belt was to tight. 
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polilara

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Re: Strange Noise(s) from Timing Belt?? when engine cold
« Reply #29 on: 04 September 2017, 08:31:07 »

Bearing is SKF BB1-0207 B Italy B 07 12 032N, running some weeks. Tightness was OK acc. to rules 3-4 mm over the mark.
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