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Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

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Author Topic: Catalonia  (Read 1794 times)

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Shackeng

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #15 on: 02 October 2017, 18:32:32 »

Not my words but this does make sense IMO:

The EU is in self-preservation mode. Their nightmare scenario goes.

Catalonia becomes independent and takes its revenue with it.

Rump Spain starts running an increasingly large deficit and starts getting into financial trouble.

A major Euro nations gets into financial trouble - a failing Spain is big enough to break the Euro.

A broken Euro would be the financial crisis to end all financial crises.

In many ways it's the law of unintended consequences at work. In trying to create a European superstate, the EU has:

Weakened the national identity of the nation states that make up the EU.

Given the potential for an newly independent state to join the single market - albeit after a minimum of five years to tick all the required boxes.

Chickens are slowly heading home to roost.
__________________

Agreed, so we are getting out just in time. :y
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #16 on: 02 October 2017, 18:43:24 »

Damn, if I'd voted 'Remain' it might have tipped the balance and I could have become the Dear Leader of Wessex!  8)  ;D
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ronnyd

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #17 on: 02 October 2017, 20:30:03 »

Kim Jong Tigg :D ::)
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Rods2

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #18 on: 02 October 2017, 20:53:07 »

The one BIG difference is that Scotland obtained permission from Westminster to hold a referendum, obviously Catalonia has not asked central government for itís blessing.

How does your International Law interpretation conform to the UN Charter rules on self-determination that Spain as a member has agreed to? ;D ;D ;D

"The right of people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (commonly regarded as a jus cogens rule), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms.[1][2] It states that a people, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #19 on: 04 October 2017, 09:17:10 »

The government of Catalonia has said that it will declare independence from Spain 'in days'.

The EU has said that this is an internal matter for the Spanish government which I think is right.  I am however waiting for Junker or Tusk to reaffirm that an independent Catalonia will not be able to stay in the EU and will have to reapply as a new member.  ::)
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Varche

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #20 on: 04 October 2017, 09:54:10 »

Very good speech last night by the King.

I had to smile at placards saying EU where are you? The EU is hardly going to come running to support break away nations and condemn police violence. That doesn't fit the script. IF they became independent then they would have to apply for EU membership, fulfil the criteria and get 27 member state approval. I cannot see a situation where Spain would approve.

The whole scenario is very divisive and one wrong step could turn things nasty. Thankfully the Spanish interior minister saw sense on Sunday and changed the plans to occupy the voting stations till they closed and then to seize the ballot boxes.

No scene showed the depth of feelings and the rift between Catalunia and rest of Spain more than the shots on Tv this morning of protesters chanting go home to the police outside their hotel and the police inside chanting nationalistic stuff in response.

The next few days are crucial.
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zirk

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #21 on: 04 October 2017, 10:10:01 »

Very good speech last night by the King.

I had to smile at placards saying EU where are you? The EU is hardly going to come running to support break away nations and condemn police violence. That doesn't fit the script. IF they became independent then they would have to apply for EU membership, fulfil the criteria and get 27 member state approval. I cannot see a situation where Spain would approve.

The whole scenario is very divisive and one wrong step could turn things nasty. Thankfully the Spanish interior minister saw sense on Sunday and changed the plans to occupy the voting stations till they closed and then to seize the ballot boxes.

No scene showed the depth of feelings and the rift between Catalunia and rest of Spain more than the shots on Tv this morning of protesters chanting go home to the police outside their hotel and the police inside chanting nationalistic stuff in response.

The next few days are crucial.
Its a difficult one, as you know the history of Catalonia goes back many hundreds of years, and wasn't helped by Royal Marriages and that Franko chap, maybe (if) they could push for a reconsidered request for an Independent Referendum then they would gain more support from outside of Spain, but doesnt always happen that way or gets blocked by political or Government rulings.

Worth remembering though the start of Solidarity in Poland back in the 1980's under the Russian Communism, it didn't exactly start with a legal Referendum, it was powered by the People, which in turn managed the result they set out to achieve.
« Last Edit: 04 October 2017, 10:15:42 by zirk »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #22 on: 04 October 2017, 13:24:18 »

The push for liberation from a blanket of Communism by a previously established and independent country is one thing... but Catalan independence, and its pursuit by any means could easily start a new civil war :'(
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aaronjb

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #23 on: 04 October 2017, 14:05:27 »

The push for liberation from a blanket of Communism by a previously established and independent country is one thing... but Catalan independence, and its pursuit by any means could easily start a new civil war :'(

A good civil war has to be good for the economy, though.

As long as you're the one selling the weapons..
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #24 on: 04 October 2017, 15:13:04 »

IF they became independent then they would have to apply for EU membership, fulfil the criteria and get 27 member state approval. I cannot see a situation where Spain would approve.


This is what everyone assumes and what the EU has said in the past, but Brussels has gone very quiet on this which could have repercussions across Europe if Catalonia is allowed to stay in the EU in the event of independence.  :-\
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Varche

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #25 on: 04 October 2017, 16:07:02 »

Understandably.

They would have to allow the break away states to rejoin to keep the head count up and money rolling in. All the possible break away "areas" with the exception of Sicily are both in the Eurozone and have healthy economies. Even so it would increase the admin overhead and make decision making even more difficult. Imagine having to split the budget in/out and liabilities! across rest of Spain and Catalunia. Be a bit like Brexit and we know how speedily that is going.
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Nick W

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #26 on: 04 October 2017, 23:07:32 »

Just seen on the news: Blair could be appointed to mediate! Which might actually work, when both sides unite to tell the useless deluded tosser to opps off and mind his own business.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #27 on: 04 October 2017, 23:38:59 »

Just seen on the news: Blair could be appointed to mediate! Which might actually work, when both sides unite to tell the useless deluded tosser to opps off and mind his own business.
Appointed by whom? Himself presumably... onerous Onanist.

Hopefully they will carve him into a paella :D
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #28 on: 04 October 2017, 23:42:44 »

Just seen on the news: Blair could be appointed to mediate!

Oh dear god....  ::)
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ronnyd

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Re: Catalonia
« Reply #29 on: 04 October 2017, 23:53:48 »

Well, he,s certainly sorted the Middle East problem----- NOT :D
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