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Author Topic: Hole in cill pre MOT  (Read 2135 times)

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terry paget

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #60 on: 25 October 2017, 12:20:43 »

shame you couldn't have a pic before the weld grinding and the paint. looks like the weld was nice and fat though if a bit wobbly.

If you just want a car to see you out it will be fine even if they didn't remove all the old plate, in fact probably stronger that way.  If you want the car to be around as a classic car you should liberally spray some rust treatment inside especially around the old plate. But then you'll need to do the other side and lots of other places.
Now I am confused. All I want is a car to see me out. I appreciate welding a plate over existing is easier and a stronger result. Yet migv6, post #48 above, says all rust must be removed, suggesting otherwise it will spread like a canker. I shall of course replace the cill cover after the repair, so it need not look good.
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terry paget

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #61 on: 25 October 2017, 13:40:58 »

Can you confirm you got the PM?  You will have to liaise with them for time, as they are not always in ;)
PM sent.
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migmog

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #62 on: 25 October 2017, 19:33:50 »

shame you couldn't have a pic before the weld grinding and the paint. looks like the weld was nice and fat though if a bit wobbly.

If you just want a car to see you out it will be fine even if they didn't remove all the old plate, in fact probably stronger that way.  If you want the car to be around as a classic car you should liberally spray some rust treatment inside especially around the old plate. But then you'll need to do the other side and lots of other places.
Now I am confused. All I want is a car to see me out. I appreciate welding a plate over existing is easier and a stronger result. Yet migv6, post #48 above, says all rust must be removed, suggesting otherwise it will spread like a canker. I shall of course replace the cill cover after the repair, so it need not look good.

you removed all the loose rust.  the rest is protected from salt and spray behind the new steel.  I doubt it will fall apart anytime soonish.  maybe 10 years.
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terry paget

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #63 on: 31 October 2017, 19:52:58 »

Saturday son's friend Brummy, a professional welder, came round. Using my new kit, he welded a patch over my rusty cill, while I watched. Today the car passed its MOT; that's the last of my 6 Omegas through for this year.
My next job is to learn to weld myself for next year.
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Fuse 19

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #64 on: 01 November 2017, 10:13:56 »

I personally never patch over as it creates moisture traps and rots the top steel out fairly quickly.

Cut out and but weld or remove the full panel and fix as per the original manufacturers method.  :y
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ajsphead

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #65 on: 01 November 2017, 12:55:30 »

Me neither. Cut out all that's rotten or too thin to weld to, fresh steel, cardboard templates, joddle the edges if needed and don't forget to paint the back of the new metal before you weld it in.
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terry paget

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #66 on: 01 November 2017, 19:03:36 »

Thank you for your advice gentlemen. I shall bear it in mind. This car (2.6CDX  manual saloon) is 17 years old and does not owe me much. All my Omegas are now in need of  pre-MOT attention, hence my wish to master MIG welding. My 2 best bodied cars are the oldest - a 1999 2.5 pfl estate that spent some years in Portugal, and a 2000 fl estate, ex ajsphead, which again is strangely little rusty. My other 4 Omegas are saloons. Do other members find estates less rust prone than saloons? My great worry is rear shock absorber mountings, and I know they are different on saloons and estates.
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Nick W

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #67 on: 01 November 2017, 19:30:08 »

Thank you for your advice gentlemen. I shall bear it in mind. This car (2.6CDX  manual saloon) is 17 years old and does not owe me much. All my Omegas are now in need of  pre-MOT attention, hence my wish to master MIG welding. My 2 best bodied cars are the oldest - a 1999 2.5 pfl estate that spent some years in Portugal, and a 2000 fl estate, ex ajsphead, which again is strangely little rusty. My other 4 Omegas are saloons. Do other members find estates less rust prone than saloons? My great worry is rear shock absorber mountings, and I know they are different on saloons and estates.


I'd be far more concerned about the chassis rails above the back of the front subframe; every Omega I've seen is getting pretty crusty there. And it's a horrible place just to patch up, let alone do a long lasting repair.
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neil74

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #68 on: 01 November 2017, 23:19:10 »

The chassis rails above the middle subframe mounts need doing rather urgently on mine and its lucky that the subframes have six points to mount them to the car rather than four as it would have dropped off months ago.
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ajsphead

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #69 on: 02 November 2017, 07:58:28 »

Thank you for your advice gentlemen. I shall bear it in mind. This car (2.6CDX  manual saloon) is 17 years old and does not owe me much. All my Omegas are now in need of  pre-MOT attention, hence my wish to master MIG welding. My 2 best bodied cars are the oldest - a 1999 2.5 pfl estate that spent some years in Portugal, and a 2000 fl estate, ex ajsphead, which again is strangely little rusty. My other 4 Omegas are saloons. Do other members find estates less rust prone than saloons? My great worry is rear shock absorber mountings, and I know they are different on saloons and estates.
I think they are all getting pretty rusty now. The difference is the owners who know about it and those who don't. I've just finished the rear turrets on mine. The steel is thick and a very hard formulation as you'd expect so there's a bit of leeway. It took a mixture of polycarbide disc in the angle grinder, flap wheel in the drill, various stone grinding wheels in the drill, dremel with flexi wand and 2 doses of de-oxidising compound, about 3 hours work in each turret before I was satisfied they were good enough for covering. Good opportunity to change the rear (tired) dampers too.

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terry paget

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #70 on: 02 November 2017, 08:42:47 »

It sounds like running Omegas as cheap luxury cars is time limited; that's a shame. Rear shocker turrets failing always seemed like a mortal affliction. Cills are replaceable. Now I learn front chassis rails are a problem too - are they the beams at the base of the windscreen?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #71 on: 02 November 2017, 08:56:49 »

It sounds like running Omegas as cheap luxury cars is time limited; that's a shame. Rear shocker turrets failing always seemed like a mortal affliction. Cills are replaceable. Now I learn front chassis rails are a problem too - are they the beams at the base of the windscreen?
In a word... No :o

The chassis rails are what the front subframe bolts to ::)
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terry paget

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #72 on: 02 November 2017, 20:53:47 »

Thank you for your advice gentlemen. I shall bear it in mind. This car (2.6CDX  manual saloon) is 17 years old and does not owe me much. All my Omegas are now in need of  pre-MOT attention, hence my wish to master MIG welding. My 2 best bodied cars are the oldest - a 1999 2.5 pfl estate that spent some years in Portugal, and a 2000 fl estate, ex ajsphead, which again is strangely little rusty. My other 4 Omegas are saloons. Do other members find estates less rust prone than saloons? My great worry is rear shock absorber mountings, and I know they are different on saloons and estates.
I think they are all getting pretty rusty now. The difference is the owners who know about it and those who don't. I've just finished the rear turrets on mine. The steel is thick and a very hard formulation as you'd expect so there's a bit of leeway. It took a mixture of polycarbide disc in the angle grinder, flap wheel in the drill, various stone grinding wheels in the drill, dremel with flexi wand and 2 doses of de-oxidising compound, about 3 hours work in each turret before I was satisfied they were good enough for covering. Good opportunity to change the rear (tired) dampers too.
Do I understand you removed all the surface rust from the inside of each turret, applied anti rust compound, and repainted?
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ajsphead

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #73 on: 03 November 2017, 07:41:09 »

Thank you for your advice gentlemen. I shall bear it in mind. This car (2.6CDX  manual saloon) is 17 years old and does not owe me much. All my Omegas are now in need of  pre-MOT attention, hence my wish to master MIG welding. My 2 best bodied cars are the oldest - a 1999 2.5 pfl estate that spent some years in Portugal, and a 2000 fl estate, ex ajsphead, which again is strangely little rusty. My other 4 Omegas are saloons. Do other members find estates less rust prone than saloons? My great worry is rear shock absorber mountings, and I know they are different on saloons and estates.
I think they are all getting pretty rusty now. The difference is the owners who know about it and those who don't. I've just finished the rear turrets on mine. The steel is thick and a very hard formulation as you'd expect so there's a bit of leeway. It took a mixture of polycarbide disc in the angle grinder, flap wheel in the drill, various stone grinding wheels in the drill, dremel with flexi wand and 2 doses of de-oxidising compound, about 3 hours work in each turret before I was satisfied they were good enough for covering. Good opportunity to change the rear (tired) dampers too.
Do I understand you removed all the surface rust from the inside of each turret, applied anti rust compound, and repainted?
Put simply yes. However removing the surface rust is not really a fair description. Basically if it's black or brown grind it out leaving nothing but shiny metal. Using a grinding disc in an angle grinder is far too clumsy and removes too much good metal so you have to get a real arsenal of bits together and that's where the dremel comes in, and most of the time is taken. I use a de-oxidising compound formulated for industrial use to convert any black specks that are then getting too tricky to grind out and don't apply rust converter until I cannot see any more black bits. Sometimes the pits you leave in the metal are quite deep so you can then pulse weld and grind them level again.

The rust converter I use is also a good primer, followed by 2 pack epoxy in 1 or 2 coats depending on where it is, stonechip over that then Schutz over that. If it's a cavity, wax inject it as well. If you have to weld in new metal you can drill a hole in it to allow for injecting then close with a suitable grommet. I believe in only doing a job once, particularly if it's a filthy one.
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robson

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Re: Hole in cill pre MOT
« Reply #74 on: 03 November 2017, 09:23:48 »

want to do mine ;D ;D
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