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Author Topic: 0.11 amp drain?  (Read 673 times)

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Essex Big Al

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0.11 amp drain?
« on: 25 October 2017, 20:00:44 »

Don't use the CDX much at all really  . . . in fact Mon - Fri does not go anywhere ::)

And remember before you get too techy guys ,I don't do much  electrickery  :-[ :-[ :-[

So . . .In those 5 days the  battery goes almost completely flat  . . sometimes just enough left to operate the central locking & thenget a dim set of ignition lights on dash.

Have done all of Kevins checks in his guide . .. battery good, all charging ok but  on the subject of current drain though,  the multimeter reads 0.39 A  for about 9 mins  then drops to 0.11  with a then occasional fluctuation to 0.06 A   or 0.04 A  returning to 0.11A

Kevins guide suggests 0.07 A      so is my reading of 0.11  within tolarence ?

Or is there something going on .     Power sounder has been binned by the way  ;)

Don't have the standard head unit  . . got a Sony MD/radio fitted  ( sure thatTB will blame that as the cause  . . ;D ;D )

TIA   Al :y

 
« Last Edit: 25 October 2017, 20:05:02 by Essex Big Al »
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Bigron

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #1 on: 25 October 2017, 20:08:47 »

Just like mine, Al, so if you have a problem, I have too!
I need to use the car at least every 3 days to charge the battery via the alternator, otherwise it's out with the mains charger.....and as far as I can tell, there's no exceptional drain.  ???

Ron.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #2 on: 25 October 2017, 20:10:04 »

Don't use the CDX much at all really  . . . in fact Mon - Fri does not go anywhere ::)

And remember before you get too techy guys ,I don't do much  electrickery  :-[ :-[ :-[

So . . .In those 5 days the  battery goes almost completely flat  . . sometimes just enough left to operate the central locking & thenget a dim set of ignition lights on dash.

Have done all of Kevins checks in his guide . .. battery good, all charging ok but  on the subject of current drain though,  the multimeter reads 0.39 A  for about 9 mins  then drops to 0.11  with a then occasional fluctuation to 0.06 A   or 0.04 A  returning to 0.11A

Kevins guide suggests 0.07 A      so is my reading of 0.11  within tolarence ?

Or is there something going on .     Power sounder has been binned by the way  ;)

Don't have the standard head unit  . . got a Sony MD/radio fitted  ( sure thatTB will blame that as the cause  . . ;D ;D )

TIA   Al :y

I take it you jump start it at that time ... then what do you do ?? drive it for a few miles or put the battery on charge using a mains powered charger ??

If you DON'T fully charge the battery it will never get a decent charge in it, and will fail early due to sitting in a discharged state for extended periods. A standard car battery will take around 12 hours on a normal battery charger to get a full charge ....

The answer to your question can only really be approached if you are fully charging the battery after the problem occurs.. 'cos if you ain't .... there is no sensible battery "start point" of reference ....
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Essex Big Al

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #3 on: 25 October 2017, 20:22:41 »

Nige  . . .have got used to it being almost flat by Friday  . . so put it on the charger for about 4 hours Friday night or Sat morning.  It is then fine all over the weekend . 

But thinking about it  . . .a few weeks ago I did do an overnight charge & it started ok on the following Friday . But then back to being almost flat at the end of that week .If that makes sense  :-\ :-\

Battery is just over a year old.

Question  . . .is it usual for the battery to drain over a 2 week period with the car not being used at all ?
« Last Edit: 25 October 2017, 20:26:34 by Essex Big Al »
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #4 on: 25 October 2017, 20:39:43 »

i had the same symptoms, i even went as far as installing a solar panel in the back window to try and stop it.  in the end it turned out to be the alternator regulator on its way out.  it was never fully charging the battery.  eventually it went completely , my car lasted about 15 mins then needed a tow truck. check what voltage your battery is being charged at.
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Essex Big Al

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #5 on: 25 October 2017, 20:45:33 »

i had the same symptoms, i even went as far as installing a solar panel in the back window to try and stop it.  in the end it turned out to be the alternator regulator on its way out.  it was never fully charging the battery.  eventually it went completely , my car lasted about 15 mins then needed a tow truck. check what voltage your battery is being charged at.

done all that when doing Kevin Wood's  test from the maintenance guide . All good
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #6 on: 25 October 2017, 21:01:38 »

Al.

You are probably taking almost as much out of the battery on a cold start and a few miles at the weekend than you are replacing so from Monday to Friday you haven't got a fully charged battery to start with.

As advised give battery a good 24 hour slow charge on a Sunday then measure the voltage each night when you get home just to see where it is .

Bet problem is standing all week unused with only a partial charge 
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Essex Big Al

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #7 on: 25 October 2017, 21:06:43 »

Al.

You are probably taking almost as much out of the battery on a cold start and a few miles at the weekend than you are replacing so from Monday to Friday you haven't got a fully charged battery to start with.

As advised give battery a good 24 hour slow charge on a Sunday then measure the voltage each night when you get home just to see where it is .

Bet problem is standing all week unused with only a partial charge

Ok Andrew will try that   . .Thanks   :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #8 on: 25 October 2017, 21:11:08 »

Amba, you do have a good point, but in my (similar) situation I have disconnected the battery, charged it via a Halfords 20 Amp "smart" charger until it reaches Maintaining condition and then re-connected the battery: it made very little difference.
The trouble with modern sealed batteries is that you can't remove the individual cell caps to see when the gassing stage has been reached, which signifies full charge, nor can you check individual cells to detect a dodgy one.

Ron.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #9 on: 25 October 2017, 21:26:21 »

Nige  . . .have got used to it being almost flat by Friday  . . so put it on the charger for about 4 hours Friday night or Sat morning.  It is then fine all over the weekend . 

But thinking about it  . . .a few weeks ago I did do an overnight charge & it started ok on the following Friday . But then back to being almost flat at the end of that week .If that makes sense  :-\ :-\

Battery is just over a year old.

Question  . . .is it usual for the battery to drain over a 2 week period with the car not being used at all ?

That makes good sense to me ...

take a 70 odd Ah battery ... standard battery charger will run at around 6-8 amps (average over time .. starts at 10 and drops off as battery charges up), so if it is "flat" it needs 12 hours .. 12 * 6 = 72 to charge up .. so your overnight charge sorted it.

If it has a current drain of 0.5 amp the over a day that's 12 a/hr, after 5 days thats 60 a/hr and you battery is flat.

If it has a current drain of 0.1 amp then over a day that's 2.4 a/hr, over 5 days its 12 A/hr .. or a quarter of your battery

anything else you can do the maths !!

so, back to the overnight charge  and lets say your current drain is 0.1 amp .. at the end of the week your battery had lost 12 a/hour... you then started the engine from cold, you used power .. call it 30 amp .. so down to 28 ,.. drive it for an hour put about 8 back in .. you have 36 ... leave it for another 5 days .. its down to 24 ... quarter of a battery .. but you need 30 to start and you are a few short ....  get out the jump leads !!

All figures are guesses but, hopefully, you'll see what i'm trying to get at ...  leaving  a half charged battery standing doesn't do it any good !!
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Essex Big Al

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #10 on: 26 October 2017, 05:17:59 »

Thanks for that explanation Nige  . . . so guessing nothing really wrong  . .just lack of use of the car . :-[

What about hooking up a "trickle" charger  (I think thats what they are called) a device that puts a very slow

charge into the battery to keep it fully charged . Are these recommended or not ? or is it just the case of putting

up with what is happening  :'( :'(  :y

Thanks for all who have responded to this issue
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #11 on: 26 October 2017, 06:30:25 »

A trickle charger should solve the problem. People with summer use cars and bikes use them over the winter to maintain a healthy battery.  :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #12 on: 26 October 2017, 06:35:55 »

Or disconnect the battery negative :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #13 on: 26 October 2017, 11:34:52 »

Just random thoughts but .... 

If you have access to a mains power point 24/7, then a "smart" charger like the CTEK (others available) would charge the battery up then hold it on maintenance charge which would ensure the battery was always fully charged and ready to go, also does the battery some good as it never sits "discharged"

If you don't have access to mains 24/7 then there are two options really, a) plug in a mains charger when you have the ability, at least once a week for 12 hours or b) get a small solar type "top-up" charger you can leave on a sunny window .. now these things are generally useless for actually charging up a flat battery as they completely lack the power to do so ...however, if the battery is fully charged ie 12 hours on a mains charger, then left with one of these connected,  it only needs to average your 0.1 amp discharge over 24 hours....  2.4 amp/hours  .... so given we have around 8 hours of daylight at the moment provided you get a minimum average of 0.3 amps from it then it "covers" your drain. A decent 10 watt one would offer just under 1 amp in bright sunlight, so I would guess .25 - .5 amp in less than ideal (cloudy) conditions.

This is just one example of many on the bay of fleas ..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECO-WORTHY-12V-10W-Portable-Power-Solar-Panel-Battery-Charger-Backup-Car-Boat-/152719344282

HTH  :)
« Last Edit: 26 October 2017, 11:46:45 by Entwood »
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #14 on: 28 October 2017, 16:17:39 »

110mA is a massive drain on a battery. I’d be hunting things down to try and find where it’s going. Shouldn’t be too difficult really. If you have the radio code then just start pulling fuses. The big underbonnet fuses generally feed groups of smaller ones in the other fuse boxes so should narrow it down quite quickly.

My trusty Mondeo (departed yesterday  :-[ ) was left for periods of a month on several occasions and started on the button each time.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #15 on: 28 October 2017, 16:47:51 »

110mA is a massive drain on a battery. I’d be hunting things down to try and find where it’s going. Shouldn’t be too difficult really. If you have the radio code then just start pulling fuses. The big underbonnet fuses generally feed groups of smaller ones in the other fuse boxes so should narrow it down quite quickly.

My trusty Mondeo (departed yesterday  :-[ ) was left for periods of a month on several occasions and started on the button each time.

But 70mA  is OK ?  :-\ 

 As this is the figure quoted as normal , if I have understood it correctly, in Kevin Wood's guide on here

So pulling fuses ?   is it just the case of getting the multi meter reading the 0.11  & then pull out each fuse in the cabin fuse box one at a time to see if the reading changes after each one is pulled ?
As you can see I really dont do too much electrickery  :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: 28 October 2017, 16:58:53 by Essex Big Al »
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #16 on: 28 October 2017, 17:01:10 »

Mine can be parked untouched for maybee three weeks at a time and never has any hint of a problem or even a slow crank so either its got an extremely good battery or im lucky.car is a standard spec 2.6 cdx with a halfords battery which was on car when i got it and didnt look particularly new then(2015).so leaving a car for a week certainly shouldnt be a problem.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #17 on: 28 October 2017, 17:20:32 »

Mine can be parked untouched for maybe three weeks at a time and never has any hint of a problem or even a slow crank so either its got an extremely good battery or I'm lucky. car is a standard spec 2.6 cdx with a halfords battery which was on car when I got it and didn't look particularly new then(2015). so leaving a car for a week certainly shouldn't be a problem.


If you can't leave it for 3 to 4 weeks, then it has a problem. Fixing that should take priority over bodges like permanently connected chargers, which only affect the symptom not the fault.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #18 on: 28 October 2017, 18:01:31 »

Mine can be parked untouched for maybe three weeks at a time and never has any hint of a problem or even a slow crank so either its got an extremely good battery or I'm lucky. car is a standard spec 2.6 cdx with a halfords battery which was on car when I got it and didn't look particularly new then(2015). so leaving a car for a week certainly shouldn't be a problem.


If you can't leave it for 3 to 4 weeks, then it has a problem. Fixing that should take priority over bodges like permanently connected chargers, which only affect the symptom not the fault.

agree Nick . .  trying to get an answer to my post  about pulling fuses  ;)
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #19 on: 28 October 2017, 19:09:47 »

Be either of the two fuses nearest the wing ;)

That's to say make sure the key works in the drivers door, then lock the car and pull both the above fuses before closing the bonnet... alternative is to disconnect the battery negative ;)
« Last Edit: 28 October 2017, 19:12:05 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #20 on: 28 October 2017, 19:18:32 »

Mine can be parked untouched for maybe three weeks at a time and never has any hint of a problem or even a slow crank so either its got an extremely good battery or I'm lucky. car is a standard spec 2.6 cdx with a halfords battery which was on car when I got it and didn't look particularly new then(2015). so leaving a car for a week certainly shouldn't be a problem.


If you can't leave it for 3 to 4 weeks, then it has a problem. Fixing that should take priority over bodges like permanently connected chargers, which only affect the symptom not the fault.

agree Nick . .  trying to get an answer to my post  about pulling fuses  ;)


Why not move into the twentieth century? Try one of these LINK
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #21 on: 28 October 2017, 20:10:28 »

Mine can be parked untouched for maybe three weeks at a time and never has any hint of a problem or even a slow crank so either its got an extremely good battery or I'm lucky. car is a standard spec 2.6 cdx with a halfords battery which was on car when I got it and didn't look particularly new then(2015). so leaving a car for a week certainly shouldn't be a problem.


If you can't leave it for 3 to 4 weeks, then it has a problem. Fixing that should take priority over bodges like permanently connected chargers, which only affect the symptom not the fault.

agree Nick . .  trying to get an answer to my post  about pulling fuses  ;)


Why not move into the twentieth century? Try one of these LINK

I have one of those, extremely useful piece of kit :)
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Essex Big Al

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #22 on: 29 October 2017, 08:58:08 »

Be either of the two fuses nearest the wing ;)

That's to say make sure the key works in the drivers door, then lock the car and pull both the above fuses before closing the bonnet... alternative is to disconnect the battery negative ;)

OK Doc . . . "nearest the wing"  must mean the under bonnet triangle fuse box ?

If so  . .there are 5 fuses that I can see  . . 3 small ones &  2 fused links  all others are relays.

I have got the multi meter set up & reading the usual 0.11 A with occasioal fluctuation to 0.05  or 0.07

The 0.11 reading is after about 9/10 mins  . . previous to that it is 0.36 A  slowly steeping down to 0.11

I have pulled all of these fuses one at a time & no difference to the reading   :-\

Shall I start pulling the cabin fuses one by one ?  Don't have one of gadgets advised by Nick W :'( :'(

Any furtuer advice greatly appriciated    ;)   Al

EDIT:  while writing this just realised you may mean the square box that sits on top of the battery  . . .gonna check now  :-[ :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: 29 October 2017, 09:03:34 by Essex Big Al »
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Essex Big Al

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #23 on: 29 October 2017, 10:18:10 »

OK large fused links in that one . . ..BUT   got a hunch it may be something to do with the Sony HU :-\ :-\

Removed fuse 12   & reading goes down to 0.01 . . . . of course I know that this fuse runs other stuff . .

gonna whip the radio out first & see if it will maintain 0.01 with it disconnected  ::) ::)

will report back soon  :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #24 on: 29 October 2017, 10:23:19 »

FOUND IT

Happy Days  . . . .  Sony MiniDisc/Radio unit  draining power .   Pulled & unplugged HU & power drain went straight down to 0.01 . . . .  reconnected & it went back to 0.11

Problem found  ;) ;) ;) . . . will leave unit disconnected & monitor battery after the end of this week

So looks like I  need to lookout for another OE  HU ;)

Thanks to all who advised  :y :y :y

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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #25 on: 29 October 2017, 11:33:49 »

Check that the HU is wired correctly first, especially the permanent live.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #26 on: 29 October 2017, 11:43:42 »

Check that the HU is wired correctly first, especially the permanent live.

Yep good point that Mr. W   . . seem to recall that I was  told to switch the live & permanent around on sonys otherwise station memory etc. will not work . . . .do you think that may be the problem . A red & a yellow wire were switched  if I remember :-\

Probably best to just go back to a OE head unit though :-\
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #27 on: 30 October 2017, 09:38:29 »

Check that the HU is wired correctly first, especially the permanent live.

Yep good point that Mr. W   . . seem to recall that I was  told to switch the live & permanent around on sonys otherwise station memory etc. will not work . . . .do you think that may be the problem . A red & a yellow wire were switched  if I remember :-\

Probably best to just go back to a OE head unit though :-\

Yep, the OE head units are normally wired with these two power feeds the opposite way round to an aftermarket head unit. Before taking it out, I'd measure with a multimeter to see if the correct power connection is staying live with the key out. If it's wrongly wired, that would almost certainly explain why you have excessive current drain.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #28 on: 30 October 2017, 10:14:31 »

Not unusual for them to have the facility to plug both the live and switched feeds together (double socket on the red lead iirc), which possibly allows leakage back into the switched side of the car... the radio won't be drawing the extra current, but rather the car itself via the relay, possibly the consumer relay or headlight switch :-\

A better solution is perhaps to swap the red and yellow pins at the radio side of the DIN plug in order to retain the two separate feeds :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #29 on: 30 October 2017, 21:24:04 »

OK . . Thanks Kevin & Doc G  . . .I will check that out tomorrow  ;)
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #30 on: 31 October 2017, 00:47:49 »

Not unusual for them to have the facility to plug both the live and switched feeds together (double socket on the red lead iirc), which possibly allows leakage back into the switched side of the car... the radio won't be drawing the extra current, but rather the car itself via the radio, possibly the consumer relay or headlight switch :-\

A better solution is perhaps to swap the red and yellow pins at the radio side of the DIN plug in order to retain the two separate feeds :y
Slight edit.
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #31 on: 31 October 2017, 06:42:59 »

Not unusual for them to have the facility to plug both the live and switched feeds together (double socket on the red lead iirc), which possibly allows leakage back into the switched side of the car... the radio won't be drawing the extra current, but rather the car itself via the radio, possibly the consumer relay or headlight switch :-\

A better solution is perhaps to swap the red and yellow pins at the radio side of the DIN plug in order to retain the two separate feeds :y
Slight edit.

Easy Doc . . . gonna need a laymans explanation of exactly what to do here  :-[ :-[

I have 2 multi way connector blocks from the head unit, (DIN plugs ? ? :-\) if that is what you mean.
Without actually looking (which I will later today) I seem to remember switching the red & yellow on the adaptor block that joins with the OE connector for the original factory HU.

Are you saying put this back as was  . . .& switch it on the block connector coming out of the Sony HU ?   :-\ :-\
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #32 on: 31 October 2017, 07:15:03 »

The highlighted part wasn't the edit.

The car side of the plug shouldn't have been touched. The loom between the radio and the car plug is the bit that gets altered... Halfrods do a ready wired loom that connects the headunit to the car with no changes necessary. But essentially the red gets connected to the switched live (black on the car) and yellow to the permanent live (red on the car). Black on the radio loom goes to Brown on the car. :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #33 on: 31 October 2017, 07:46:52 »

The highlighted part wasn't the edit.

The car side of the plug shouldn't have been touched. The loom between the radio and the car plug is the bit that gets altered... Halfrods do a ready wired loom that connects the headunit to the car with no changes necessary. But essentially the red gets connected to the switched live (black on the car) and yellow to the permanent live (red on the car). Black on the radio loom goes to Brown on the car. :y

OK Doc     I am using the adaptor loom kit from Halfrauds . .& the steering wheel controls loom also from there . Not touched the car loom  ;)   As I recall I just switched red & yellow in one of the adaptor blocks.  Cannot get to the car until a bit later on to see . Will report later

Thanks   :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #34 on: 31 October 2017, 17:57:20 »

Not the sort of day i was planning  . . .so not got far

The Sony head & its dangling loom that ends with 2  x half size DIN blocks , has the red & yellow wires in seperate pull apart connectors before it gets to the DIN  connector.

What I had done was just reconnected with red to yellow & vise versa

Quickly tried it today with red to red & yellow to yellow with the same result of a 0.11 A drain

Did not have time to load up memory & see if it "Remembered"   :-\ :-\

Still looking to just replace the bloody thing with a CCR2006

Will a Signum /Vectra one fit & work ?  :-\ :-\ :-\
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #35 on: 03 November 2017, 06:30:04 »

Update on the power drain with Sony HU  disconnected since Tuesday   

Just been out & tried to start the car  ::)

Central locking . . .all working  ;)

Dash lights  . . .like Blackpool seafront  ;D

Car started with what seems like a fully charged battery   :y :y :y

Will play about with red & yellow power feeds when I get a chance  . . but going down

the replcement OE  head unit is the plan   ;) ;)

Thanks to all who responded to get this sorted  . .    OOF at its best  again  :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #36 on: 03 November 2017, 10:17:58 »

I'm sure TheBoy would be happy to "educate" the Sony head unit for you. That's probably what it needs. :y
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #37 on: 04 November 2017, 19:10:50 »

I'm sure TheBoy would be happy to "educate" the Sony head unit for you. That's probably what it needs. :y
Glady :)
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Re: 0.11 amp drain?
« Reply #38 on: 11 November 2017, 13:27:59 »

Update on Sony HU.    Not been able to get a replacement GM unit as yet . But . . . have changed the yellow & red power wires to how they should be  (Red to red / yellow to yellow )  power drain stays at 0.01 A   ;)

Unit will not remember radio stations though  . . .   but no big issue there  :)

Issue seems to be  . .if you need memory to work the red & yellow need swapping  BUT this causes a constant power drain of 0.11A  & will flatten battery in less than a week without use of car .

Unit wired as it should be  means unit works fine but no memory of radio stations & NO power drain

Will still try & replace with an OE  HU when one comes up  . .  :y
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