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[Rods2]

Worth reading this short article written by Christopher Chope MP, where he is one of a group of cross-party MPs who form the "Exiting the European Union Select Committee" and visited Brussels for a series of meetings with EU chief negotiator Michael Barnier and President of the EU Parliament Guy Verhofstadt last week. They conclude that a no deal is much better than their deal. As I suspected from day 1 there is no intention in concluding any deal that would be acceptable to the UK.

http://brexitcentral.com/meeting-michel-barnier-guy-verhofstadt-ive-concluded-no-deal-will-better-deal/

[Viral_Jim]

Quite. There is no reason whatsoever for the EU to offer us anything other than a punitive deal. To do so would invite the breakup to the whole union.

Why anyone believed we would get that "good deal" that Weak n Wobbly keeps banging on about is beyond me. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

A punitive deal is a breach of international law.  ...................but I don't think for one minute that will stop them. 

[Varche]

You should be more concerned about the deal when we rejoin the EU we never left. First part of that is happening now with the May toppling.

Britain won't have the opt outs it had, might have to contribute more each year, will finally be a subservient member state. Who knows we might even have to adopt the euro. Now that really would be one in the eye for even the most ardent of the current remain band.

[aaronjb]

I, for one, look forward to my new EU overlords.

They can have the country for a couple of years before the robots take over.

[Viral_Jim]

Who knows we might even have to adopt the euro. Now that really would be one in the eye for even the most ardent of the current remain band.

Indeed bitter pills to swallow, but if it meant the opportunity to watch Farage's head actually implode, it could be a price worth paying  .

In all seriousness, if that did occur, I think I would choose to ply my trade elsewhere.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Not really a negotiation of equals. At least that is how it looks to me.

It seems the EU has the whip hand and it is they who decide the order of business. When they say jump, we ask how high.

They'll be tears before bedtime.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It doesn't help that the government is close to imploding.

[Sir Tigger KC]

You should be more concerned about the deal when we rejoin the EU we never left. First part of that is happening now with the May toppling.

Britain won't have the opt outs it had, might have to contribute more each year, will finally be a subservient member state. Who knows we might even have to adopt the euro. Now that really would be one in the eye for even the most ardent of the current remain band.

No I don't think that will happen for a moment and lets not forget that a punitive deal for Britain is also a punitive deal for people and businesses across the EU.    If they do offer a punitive deal, then TM is right that no deal is better than a bad deal. 

I read somewhere that the EU has started trade negotiations with New Zealand and their opening demand is that NZ halt existing trade talks with Russia.    Apparently the Kiwi's are outraged!   

Whether it's true or not I don't know  , but lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story and it dosn't sound beyond the realms of possibility. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

It doesn't help that the government is close to imploding.

We have a government. 

Unlike the Germans who are trying to cobble together a 3 party coalition.    and the Dutch who recently regained a government  7 months after their election.    Oh and the French who do have a government, but the people are perpetually on the verge of riots and civil disobedience.  Spain? Nuff said.    Italy?  They have elections next year against a backdrop of a decade of economic stagnation and recent government bank bailouts that are probably contrary to EU law, but the Commission has looked the other way! 

It's so strong and stable on the other side on La Manche!   

[Varche]

You should be more concerned about the deal when we rejoin the EU we never left. First part of that is happening now with the May toppling.

Britain won't have the opt outs it had, might have to contribute more each year, will finally be a subservient member state. Who knows we might even have to adopt the euro. Now that really would be one in the eye for even the most ardent of the current remain band.

No I don't think that will happen for a moment and lets not forget that a punitive deal for Britain is also a punitive deal for people and businesses across the EU.    If they do offer a punitive deal, then TM is right that no deal is better than a bad deal. 

I read somewhere that the EU has started trade negotiations with New Zealand and their opening demand is that NZ halt existing trade talks with Russia.    Apparently the Kiwi's are outraged!   

Whether it's true or not I don't know  , but lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story and it dosn't sound beyond the realms of possibility. 

You maybe right. However there is a lot of momentum for rejoining having never left.

Donald Tusk wants it.

a lot of remain voters would be in favour. It wouldn' take long for fickle politicians to back the public clamour. After all they are supposed to represent their votoers.

Crucially the establishment both sides of the channel would be in favour. Don't forget the Cameron vote was only a glitch in the process. One that none of them ever thought would lead to an out vote.

[Sir Tigger KC]

You maybe right. However there is a lot of momentum for rejoining having never left.

Donald Tusk wants it.

a lot of remain voters would be in favour. It wouldn' take long for fickle politicians to back the public clamour. After all they are supposed to represent their votoers.

Crucially the establishment both sides of the channel would be in favour. Don't forget the Cameron vote was only a glitch in the process. One that none of them ever thought would lead to an out vote.

Nonsense! and who cares what Tusk wants! 

I think that attitudes are hardening amongst the 'silent majority' in this country and I think a lot of people who voted remain did so through gritted teeth believing the dire warnings of immediate armageddon should we vote to leave the EU! 

Now they have seen that we havn't yet ridden into hell on our handcart, I don't believe the idea that people have changed their minds.  If anything they are becoming more 'bloody minded' against the EU having seen how they are trying to shaft us! 

As to the EU having the whip hand I don't believe that either.  They want our money and I think that Barnier is under a lot of pressure to deliver.  I think that they imagined that the UK would have caved in by now and I think it was more of an act of desperation when Barnier delivered his 2 week ultimatum, than a position of strength. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I completely agree. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

You maybe right. However there is a lot of momentum for rejoining having never left.

Donald Tusk wants it.

a lot of remain voters would be in favour. It wouldn' take long for fickle politicians to back the public clamour. After all they are supposed to represent their votoers.

Crucially the establishment both sides of the channel would be in favour. Don't forget the Cameron vote was only a glitch in the process. One that none of them ever thought would lead to an out vote.

Nonsense! and who cares what Tusk wants! 

I think that attitudes are hardening amongst the 'silent majority' in this country and I think a lot of people who voted remain did so through gritted teeth believing the dire warnings of immediate armageddon should we vote to leave the EU! 

Now they have seen that we havn't yet ridden into hell on our handcart, I don't believe the idea that people have changed their minds.  If anything they are becoming more 'bloody minded' against the EU having seen how they are trying to shaft us! 

As to the EU having the whip hand I don't believe that either.  They want our money and I think that Barnier is under a lot of pressure to deliver.  I think that they imagined that the UK would have caved in by now and I think it was more of an act of desperation when Barnier delivered his 2 week ultimatum, than a position of strength. 

Well, not quite in my case, but I've never been enthusiastic about the EU. It is too flawed and f*cked up for that.

I voted remain because I thought it the 'least worst' choice and I still feel the same way.

Similar to the choice of voting for  either Trump or Bill Clinton's f*ck buddy. Neither being a great option.

[Rods2]

Good article by CapX which shows the weaknesses in the EU's hand. I think it underplays the issues of a no deal to the UK but it does highlight the EU's problems with us leaving and the jobs at stake in German manufacturing and French agriculture. It will also cause major issues for the Dutch and Spanish when we substitute cheaper greenhouse produce from North Africa and other non-EU countries.

https://capx.co/the-eus-hand-is-weaker-than-it-claims/