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[Bigron]

Such a wise head on young shoulders, Rods2; I will heed your advice.
I understand thet there is a superb, subsidised grub shop in The House - good for the waistline (NOT).

Ron.

[Kevin Wood]

Point 4) People will always try to get around rules and regulations, but I'm sure that with future technology and laws that forbid charging from anywhere but a separately metered car charging point (Where the juice is taxed so more expensive) they will work out how to raise the revenue.  More speculation and bullshit I'm afraid, but it's the best I can do for you at this moment in time! 

Yep, the place will be littered with Transit Tippers connected to the streetlamps, for a start.

[LC0112G]

Point 1) If you build a faraday cage around your shiny new smart meter, they won't get the readings so they'll send a meter guy round get the readings manually and you will be prosecuted for tampering with your meter.  Or eliminated maybe! 

Point 2) I havn't got a crystal ball, nor am I a smart meter inventor so I don't know exactly, but I'm sure that they will figure out how to analyse your electricity usage to work out whether or not you are charging your car.

Point 3) If you feel you need a 3 phase supply for charging your car, then it will be a separate supply with it's own main fuse and meter.  A costly installation for sure, but will not need any rewiring of the houses existing single phase system. Existing fast charge units draw 7kw and I sure could be metered separately. However as well as not having a crystal ball, nor being a smart meter inventor, neither am I an electrician so my knowledge here is sketchy.  So I freely admit that I am speculating and don't really know what I am talking about. 

Point 4) People will always try to get around rules and regulations, but I'm sure that with future technology and laws that forbid charging from anywhere but a separately metered car charging point (Where the juice is taxed so more expensive) they will work out how to raise the revenue.  More speculation and bullshit I'm afraid, but it's the best I can do for you at this moment in time! 

/SirHumphreyVoice = on
Your faith in future Technologies is very brave, Sir Tigger
/SirHumphreyVoice = off

[Sir Tigger KC]

Point 1) If you build a faraday cage around your shiny new smart meter, they won't get the readings so they'll send a meter guy round get the readings manually and you will be prosecuted for tampering with your meter.  Or eliminated maybe! 

Point 2) I havn't got a crystal ball, nor am I a smart meter inventor so I don't know exactly, but I'm sure that they will figure out how to analyse your electricity usage to work out whether or not you are charging your car.

Point 3) If you feel you need a 3 phase supply for charging your car, then it will be a separate supply with it's own main fuse and meter.  A costly installation for sure, but will not need any rewiring of the houses existing single phase system. Existing fast charge units draw 7kw and I sure could be metered separately. However as well as not having a crystal ball, nor being a smart meter inventor, neither am I an electrician so my knowledge here is sketchy.  So I freely admit that I am speculating and don't really know what I am talking about. 

Point 4) People will always try to get around rules and regulations, but I'm sure that with future technology and laws that forbid charging from anywhere but a separately metered car charging point (Where the juice is taxed so more expensive) they will work out how to raise the revenue.  More speculation and bullshit I'm afraid, but it's the best I can do for you at this moment in time! 

/SirHumphreyVoice = on
Your faith in future Technologies is very brave, Sir Tigger
/SirHumphreyVoice = off

Or stupid Malc! 

[Rods2]

32A spurs for up to 7.5kw are used by electric cookers and only the smallest electric showers are rated at this, most are 8.5, 9.5 or 10.5kw using a 64A spur.

The easy way to tax electric car charging is to make the charging point connection activate upon demand, it only works by matching your car id and charging station id along with a pre-bought amount of charge which are sent to HMRC who hold your credit/debit card details and reserve the money. When you disconnect your car the amount of power you have used is sent to HRMC who then process the final transaction. A combination of car tracking and ANPR is then used to monitor the electric cars on the road and that the taxed charging amounts are statistically within that car's consumption band, with severe penalties of large fines, bans and prison sentences depending on the level of estimated evasion.

TB will never have a problem where he will use at least twice the average power for mileage done,  whereas Tunnie where he uses a quarter of the average, might fall below the accepted threshold and get pulled.

[aaronjb]

Point 4) People will always try to get around rules and regulations, but I'm sure that with future technology and laws that forbid charging from anywhere but a separately metered car charging point (Where the juice is taxed so more expensive) they will work out how to raise the revenue.  More speculation and bullshit I'm afraid, but it's the best I can do for you at this moment in time! 

Yep, the place will be littered with Transit Tippers connected to the streetlamps, for a start.

 

[Varche]

Ah yes but tunnie will be laughing on cloudy days with little wind as the amount he managed to get charged will just get him to work and back. The verges will be littered with "flat" cars whose cold, music less drivers will be cursing the UK's dependence on renewables having cancelled the nuclear power stations under the latest EU green drive directive.

[Marks DTM Calib]

1. Local substations will be safe as when the intermittent wind, takes a pause the whole grid will collapse, like regularly happens in South Australia.

2. People will then be told to disconnect all appliances, so the grid can be rebooted district by district over 12 to 24 hours.

3. Once the grid has been restored and lots of people try to charge their cars again, go back to point 1 and repeat.

Not a problem, these smart meters have remote disconnect, its easy enough to turn off the great unwashed for a few hours so those in power can recharge their Bentley

[grifter]

There is no Utopian solution.

But tax on fuel seems a pretty good compromise.

Although there is already 2 taxes on it vat and fuel tax, no mention of where they are spent

[Bigron]

Yes Grifter - exactly! Does anyone else remember when the government (not sure which) said they would never impose a tax on a tax, because that would be unfair and illegal?
Politicians' promises, eh?

Ron.

[LC0112G]

Yes Grifter - exactly! Does anyone else remember when the government (not sure which) said they would never impose a tax on a tax, because that would be unfair and illegal?
Politicians' promises, eh?

Ron.

Ahh, but technically these aren't two taxes. There is Fuel Duty, and VAT. Most Duties have VAT applied on top - Booze, Fags, imports from outside the EU etc.

I'm not sure why you think a tax on tax is illegal anyway - plenty of other cases, of this happening particularly in the private pensions arena.

And why does anyone suppose that motoring taxes should only be used to improve transport related issues? Does Insurance Premium Tax improve insurance? Or Airport passenger Duty improve airports? Or Value Added Tax improve value? Very few taxes are ring fenced to pay for improvements to the thing that's being taxed. It just goes into a big pot in the treasury, and the govt decide how and what to dole the money out to.

[Bigron]

Why is there an Excise Duty on petrol (or anything else) anyway?
As I have said far too often on here (sorry!), the RFL was ring-fenced specifically for road building - hence the name. Churchill, back in the 1930s, saw a source of revenue that helped keep general taxes down - a vote winner. It has been thus ever since.
If we espouse your "big pot" scenario, then let us remove all specific motoring-related taxes (RFL, fuel, CO2, etc.) and fund roads and infrastructure purely from general taxation; after all, everyone benefits from these resources.

Ron.

[LC0112G]

Why is there an Excise Duty on petrol (or anything else) anyway?
As I have said far too often on here (sorry!), the RFL was ring-fenced specifically for road building - hence the name. Churchill, back in the 1930s, saw a source of revenue that helped keep general taxes down - a vote winner. It has been thus ever since.
If we espouse your "big pot" scenario, then let us remove all specific motoring-related taxes (RFL, fuel, CO2, etc.) and fund roads and infrastructure purely from general taxation; after all, everyone benefits from these resources.

Ron.

But what is general taxation? Income tax wasn't introduced till 1798 and was specifically in order to pay for the Napoleonic Wars. I don't think we're still at war with Napoleon or the French - officially at least. So why not scrap income tax and go back to what we had before it - Window Tax.

National Insurance was introduced to pay for the NHS and the State Pension. In reality it does neither.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Why dont we go back to having a much smaller state, people taking responsibility for their own lives, and people being allowed to keep most of the money they have earned in order to take responsibility for their own lives ?
Politicians are unlikely to want to go this route as they have got used to building their empires of useless depts. with huge  taxpayer funded budgets. Got used to taking our money from us and then using it to buy our votes when they need them. And most people have got used to the enormous socialist state mentality which has convinced us that we are incapable of being independent adults, and the Govt. is our nanny who takes care of our needs and problems.

[Bigron]

I think that we all recognise Income Tax as being the general tax: you are being disingenuous!
As a Minister in TB's government, I plan to implement this policy, and dissenters will be culled by him.....

Ron.